Just got pulled over sort of...

[magudaman]

So I looked outside, "it's almost sunset, I want to go for a ride before it gets dark". I power out of my neighborhood, out on to a busy road, and then quickly turn off to climb up a dirt hill that runs parallel to the road. It's sort technical but I am feeling good and get a bit of air off one of the little lips while the busy traffic below looks on. The last section of my dirt route dumps me out on to the road again and I have to cross under some low branches with head tucked under the handle bars then bound off a curb back into the bike lane and continue my journey. Right as I pass under the trees and come out the other side I raise my head to check for traffic before crossing the intersection and I see on the opposite side a motorcycle cop. "hmmm I hope he doesn't bother me". I ride onward and drop off the road down an embankment to another parallel road to get away from trafficky road. I ride through a bike jump area and climb up the a hill back to the main road to cross over again to the hilly area I like to ride in. And of course waiting for me at the top is that cop.

"Stop STOP" I stop quickly. "Does what your doing seem legal" he asks sort of perturbed. "I said well its an electric bike...", He interrupts, "It motorized is what it is so it doesn't mater" I go to explain some more, but he tell me "were getting a ton of calls to check out a bike that's climbing up side of the road, during rush hour," "go ride you bike in the hills not next to the road during rush hour where it will gather so much attention and create a distraction, you could get arrested for doing something like that". I quickly realize he doesn't want to really pursue this legally, and I nod, "alright I understand". He rides off and I ride back toward home sort of shook up.

So that was my first real encounter with a police officer while on an electric bicycle. I have encountered several others in the past and also come across rangers, was never met with anything more than curiosity.

Some notes
- Of course the conversation was from memory
- The dirt road area, is not marked as no motorized vehicles, I ride up it on my mountain bike all the time, and clearly others do too, its sort of a bypass to not be right next to traffic.
- I am pretty sure he would not have bothered me if I was just riding up the bike lane of the road. Many cops have not so far.
- While my bike exceeds some of the specifications of the legal definition of an electric bike, I gotta start carrying that federal law sheet around again: http://www.izipusa.com/pdf/Fed Elect Bike Reg.pdf

 

[swade]

I think you played it well.

 

[MattyCiii]

The key is in what the cop said:
"were getting a ton of calls to check out a bike that's climbing up side of the road, during rush hour"

The soccer moms in cages are whining about you. Most likely because you are car free, care free, and passing them... and they want you to be in a minivan like them, suffering too.

Don't rile the people in cars. If they can't run you down, they'll whine to the cops.

 

[Alan B]

California rules are better than Federal, and those have some typos, so might be worthwhile finding something better.

 

[dkw12002]

I think you did good too. One is tempted to argue when cops tell you it's something more than a bicycle, but then he will just give you a ticket.

 

[Kingfish]

I am relieved you got off easy; it could have been worse. I know the local cops have been on the lookout for me at times. It’s always best to play it cool, and don’t push your luck.

One night in particular I had a cop follow me home on the last ½ mile: I was doing my usual blast through the town, sometimes bike, sometimes motorcycle-like taking over the lane. There’s a goofy 3-way intersection at the edge of town and I take the bike lane leading up to it, but then that lane disappears so I move to the center and “become the motorcycle” through the 3-way merge, then move to the left turn lane and go left up my hill. I’ve been making this maneuver for weeks and months. One day I must have passed a cop stuck in traffic when I was in bike-mode and he managed to pull in closer when I switched to motorcycle mode, then followed me all the way to the top of my hill. I don’t care who is behind me normally on rural roads cos the speed limit is so low; the bike is torquey on hill climbs and I pulled onto my drive like no big thing, only then to notice the cop not far behind… but now I’m on private property: What can he do? I stood and stared at him waiting for a reaction, but he just turned around and left. And that is the closest I’ve come to meeting up with a shield.

Maybe he’s just never seen a bike like mine before. Maybe he’s trying to do some testosterone posturing, like saying "I see you!". Frankly I wasn’t terribly worried cos I carry the email reply from the Washington State Patrol, the one that says they declined to inspect my ebike, and yet providing safety tips on how and where to ride – essentially sanctioning it for the road.

Still, it pays not to be the magpie. I’ve toned down my act a bit; no need to show off.
Cool as a cucumber, KF 8)

 

[dogman dan]

I'm a bit unclear what you were doing that was illegal. Public nuciance for distracting the drivers, as if you were flashing a lazer or a mirror at them? Must ride where nobody sees you? WTH?

Could it have to do with the property itself? I've heard stuff about California being strict about where you can ride motorcycles. Apparently the cop was just using his authority to make the phone stop ringing about you. Been doing anything else the cop didn't see that day?

 

[Kingfish]

Gosh Dogman, I am at the same loss to describe the behavior. I didn’t pull into MY driveway per se, just off the road like I normally do. :wink: The property association knows me cos I’ve been here for years and I’m sort of like a local celebrity with the kids and parents… the Management likes me, so – it’s not a Property issue (although that could be a valid point for someone else).

However, I am a cautious person, and a cop is a cop. My bike is as street-legal as I can make it. The only beef this guy could have is that I was doing what? Less than the speed limit? Maybe cos I was riding IN-traffic? I can’t take my bike on the sidewalk and feel safe for both myself or peds going the other way. There isn’t a crosswalk with lights to get from one side to the other at that weird intersection (although it desperately needs one).

I think it was the cop just being what a cop does: Sticking his nose into other peoples’ business, trying to horn out a crime. They can’t help it. Like lawyers lurking to sue, it’s in their blood.

I think the posture I took was the best: “I see you too, and I’m not running away. What’s the story?”
Vigilant, KF

 

[Ykick]

There's enough of us pushing 2kW and beyond that exhibition of that power will eventually bring more and more wrath from the man. I guess we better start saving legal defense funds now...

 

[pdf]

My take is that what you were doing was completely legal. But as the cop said, it didn't LOOK legal. Like many things in the US, what matters more to "the man" is what it looks like. For example, four Hispanic guys in a low-rider cruising the black-tie district with smoke coming out the windows and the jams turned up at 1 AM are going to get pulled over. Four dudes in suits in a Mercedes could do doughnuts holding brandy snifters and be just fine. You were having a good time, riding off road when you liked and on-road, legally, when you liked. I am sure you are correct that he would not have bothered you if you were driving straight in the bike lane or all off-road either. It is that you were choosing which one you wanted when it suited you. Which is completely legal, but probably looked similar to a dirt bike riding on the road and then off; it just didn't LOOK legal.

So it is completely legal to be drinking a latte, eating a biscotti, and chatting and texting on your cell while driving in bumper to bumper interstate traffic. But not riding a bike with a motor pulling 2000W up a hill on the road. Which is more dangerous? If you do something out of the ordinary, people are going to be curious. If it looks like you are having a good time and they are not, they assume it must be illegal. It happens to me a lot, actually. Seems I am always doing something unusual that looks dicey. The reaction is either, "Man, I wish I was doing that" or "That looks dangerous and stupid. Must be illegal." It isn't how dangerous it IS, but how dangerous or unconventional it LOOKS that matters to people. I usually do things based on how dangerous or dicey they actually are, and sometimes not based on how legal it is. For example, my daughter rode a jet ski all over the place in front of our lake house when she was 12. She had been riding with me since she was a baby. She can ride better than I can. However, it was as illegal as heck; she was too young to ride solo. I made sure she never rode on days when "the man" on the water would be likely to be out. Now, my 17 year old nephew got on a jet ski for the first time and ran over someone in the water within 5 minutes. Which one was legal and which was dangerous?

You could play it both ways. If you pressed it, you would probably win in court. But do you have the time and inclination to go that far? Some people do, and God Bless the Rebels. I don't so I would probably have done what you did. Sometimes, on a bad day, I'll push it, but usually I figure it isn't worth my time.

 

[el_walto]

What i find annoying is that the max speed limit for an ebike is 32km/h. I can ride my pedal bike at 40km/h. So I've set my ebike for 40km/h and hopefully i won't get pulled over.

 

[veloman]

I hope police have enough common sense to allow sensible riding.

Sometimes that means going bicycle speeds in a bike lane.

But sometimes it also means going WOT because there is no bike lane or shoulder and you will be obstructing traffic if you were to go the ebike speed limit.

I think some cops are cool, I just hope I don't come across a crappy one.

I had to do it this morning, 34mph with traffic because if I went 20mph and stayed to the right, I would not likely be seen by merging traffic and would likely be brushed by cars since it was a 4 lane road with no shoulder/ accommodation for bikes. I 'pedaled' for some peace of mind / defense if I did get stopped. There's actually a county sheriff's building on that section of road....lol. What can I say, it's not safe going slow there.



Riding recklessly and blowing lights/stops carelessly is a different story. Speed is not the issue IMO. I go 10mph when I'm on a heavy pedestrian path/bridge. I hate going slow, but remind myself to not be an ass.

 

[veloman]

What i find annoying is that the max speed limit for an ebike is 32km/h. I can ride my pedal bike at 40km/h. So I've set my ebike for 40km/h and hopefully i won't get pulled over.

I was cranking it up near 65kph (40mph) on my road bicycle in spandex this afternoon. You can bet for sure I wasn't riding the bike lane, I was in the travel lanes. (And for a few seconds, passing like a motorcycle). Oh tailwinds are glorious. I've never once felt worried about going too fast on my road bike (other than breaking the speed limit), never had any issue with police due to high speed.

 

[sk8norcal]

So I looked outside, "it's almost sunset, I want to go for a ride before it gets dark". I power out of my neighborhood, out on to a busy road, and then quickly turn off to climb up a dirt hill that runs parallel to the road. It's sort technical but I am feeling good and get a bit of air off one of the little lips while the busy traffic below looks on. The last section of my dirt route dumps me out on to the road again and I have to cross under some low branches with head tucked under the handle bars then bound off a curb back into the bike lane and continue my journey. Right as I pass under the trees and come out the other side I raise my head to check for traffic before crossing the intersection and I see on the opposite side a motorcycle cop. "hmmm I hope he doesn't bother me". I ride onward and drop off the road down an embankment to another parallel road to get away from trafficky road. I ride through a bike jump area and climb up the a hill back to the main road to cross over again to the hilly area I like to ride in. And of course waiting for me at the top is that cop.

can you link a street view from google maps?
I cant really picture what ur describing...

 

[Harold in CR]

What you were doing looked dangerous or illegal, however, the idiots that phoned in were using cellphones while driving, but, that's NOT dangerous. Just more sheeple working to inform the Govt, so more rights can be taken away.

 

[Alan B]

Our California laws don't permit handheld cellphone use while driving except for calling 911.

 

[MattyCiii]

I wonder if 911 calls are part of the public record, and therefore subject to freedom of information requests.

Motorists in general are whiny douche bags. Someone needs to push back. I think that someone is definitely not the e-bike community, but it is perhaps the bicycling organizations and pedestrian supporters and motorcycle clubs. Since I cycle, walk, and until recently owned a motorcycle, I'm eligible to join an advocacy group of at least the first 2 of 3. I went and joined a bicycling advocacy group, since that's where I best fit.

Motorists are the common enemy my friends. This incident is but one small example. Motorists get frustrated when sitting in traffic, and don't see the irony that they are the traffic. When a bicycle or e-bike or an old man in a walker on the sidewalk makes better time than them, they get pissed at that [cyclist/e-biker/old man]. Then the busy-body biddies break out their cellies... "There's a man on a bike, I think what he's doing is unsafe!" Again the ultimate irony, as the leading cause of death of people under age 29 in the USA is the automobile.

 

[veloman]

I wonder if 911 calls are part of the public record, and therefore subject to freedom of information requests.

Motorists in general are whiny douche bags. Someone needs to push back. I think that someone is definitely not the e-bike community, but it is perhaps the bicycling organizations and pedestrian supporters and motorcycle clubs. Since I cycle, walk, and until recently owned a motorcycle, I'm eligible to join an advocacy group of at least the first 2 of 3. I went and joined a bicycling advocacy group, since that's where I best fit.

Motorists are the common enemy my friends. This incident is but one small example. Motorists get frustrated when sitting in traffic, and don't see the irony that they are the traffic. When a bicycle or e-bike or an old man in a walker on the sidewalk makes better time than them, they get pissed at that [cyclist/e-biker/old man]. Then the busy-body biddies break out their cellies... "There's a man on a bike, I think what he's doing is unsafe!" Again the ultimate irony, as the leading cause of death of people under age 29 in the USA is the automobile.

Yup, it's that sense of entitlement.

I'm part of a cycling advocacy group here, though most of our time is spent discussing infrastructure. We do cover lots of other stuff like motorist issues and work with the police dept (sgt came in last meeting), and work with the public transit company.


I sort of feel bad that every time I pass under the gridlocked highway, laughing to myself. I know they will never expand that highway (I-35 in Austin) and these people are so damn stubborn that they think a million cars must be accommodated. Effin clueless. It's just the typical me-first mindset that occurs everywhere.

 

[RallySTX]

What I didn't see mentioned, was the posibility of the land you was riding on being private property. Also, it may have looked like you was the kind of rider who wouldn't obey traffic laws at all. Since you mention the officer was a moto-cop, I'll add, they have a predisposition of dominance, meaning, they're looking for an excuse to be a meanie. Not all of them are that way, but those are the most motivated ones, and so they will jump at nothing. I agree with others here who said, "It's most likely jelous motorists griping on the phone about some biker who got ahead of them. I get cut off by cars all the time, and I'm a pedestrian. They actually believe they have the right to cut in front of me, and then spray me with their exhaust, or road debris while merging recklessly. Don't even say anything to them, or you get assaulted, or run down. They really seem to believe, that their fancy new vehicle gives them special rights. Half the drivers Isee need to reaquaint themselves with their driver's ed handbook!
Brian L.

 

[MattyCiii]

I get cut off by cars all the time, and I'm a pedestrian. They actually believe they have the right to cut in front of me, and then spray me with their exhaust, or road debris while merging recklessly. Don't even say anything to them, or you get assaulted, or run down. They really seem to believe, that their fancy new vehicle gives them special rights.
Brian L.

Amen to that, brother!

From what I see on the street, the sense of entitlement goes up with the value of the car. Way up.

 

[dogman dan]

I bet the calls were one or more of each category. Likely not to 911.

"He's having too much fun, it must be stopped" Pure jealosy.

"It must be illegal, it's a motor, on bike trail" Never mind it's not official trail with any rules, or that you aren't a dirt motorcycle.

This might be the biggest trigger. They think you are tearing up public land illegaly. Are you? You might be in CA. Private land could be similarly problematic.

"It looks dangerous, he switches from road to street" Never mind the merge is your problem, and you do it safe. There's no stop sign.

"Im too stupid to concentrate on driving, if I see anything" Again, not your problem, stop sightseeing, stupid cager.

 

[bjm522]

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21207_5.htm

"no motorized bicycle may be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the local authority or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over such path or trail permits, by ordinance, such operation. "

Unfortunately, in California, you have to stick to the road, or go to an OHV park. It's a shame.

on the road-driving side of things in CA, http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm is great info to know. Police have harassed me for making left turns from the left lane, and I just let them know what the law was. They don't like being told what the law is, so you better not be doing anything truly illegal.

 

[veloman]

Motorized bicycles is the term for gas engines on bikes. I don't believe it applies to electric bikes in most instances.

 

[bjm522]

Legally they are the same thing. If it has pedals and any form of motor, it's a motorized bicycle.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc24016.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc406.htm

 

[John in CR]

I would have asked which part of the riding was a problem, by initiating the conversation with a friendly "Hi Officer, I wasn't doing anything wrong was I?" The on the road, off, and back on again, sounds like it may have been done in a fun way, and if so that's where your problem is likely. If you're coming out of nowhere to merge with a busy street, whether it's to the shoulder or bike lane isn't important. If you're coming at traffic from the side carrying any kind of speed, then yes I can see motorists having a problem, because you could easily startle them and cause an accident.