LEgal Ebike 50mph assistance

N

nerys

10 mW
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
21
Guys need some help. There are many reasons for wanting to do this the primary of which is the challenge the secondary of which is I have a problem with titling and registration processes. When you title a vehicle you no longer "technically" own it (and you must be licensed) ie you have to ask PERMISSION (and therefore can be denied) for what is a basic human right and one that is constitutionally protected by the first amendment (right to assemble which includes right to travel which includes any common conveyance ie horse bike CAR etc..)

thats another topic though.

Here is my goal. I want to build an electric assisted bicycle. I want to OWN it this means no title. I do not want to register it insure it inspect it.

I want to do 45-50mph

and here is the kicker. I want to be LEGAL. I THINK I figured out a way to do it.

I would build an aeroshell for the bike and gear it VERY high. the idea is to PEDAL at 50mph on flat smooth level ground with little or no electric input (i know asking a lot but I THINK I can do it)

I would then have an electric motor to help with acceleration and hills.

now with the way the laws are written I can NOT put the motor on the bike without running afoul of the law SO I think I cam up with a way to legally bypass the law.

what if I made a motorcycle TRAILER. put the batteries and electric drive on the trailer. GOT THE TRAILER lawfully titled registered WITH PLATES.

I then put a "hitch" on my bike (I would even use this on my motorcycle to save gas) a fully legal tagged titled registered trailer.

what happens if I stick that trailer on my pedal bicycle. am I legal?
 
hehe Pandora. though technically a moon :) hehe

I know its a stretch. but would it be LEGAL. heck I would probably be happy with 35-40mph (I already can pedal at 35 for short distances) with the right gearing and an aeroshell I think I could sustain that for a couple miles with a electric kick here and there for inclines hills and acceleration. IE I would just provide the "hold" power to hold a speed.
 
do you happen to know what law it would violate? I have been unable to find ANY laws regarding "pusher trailers" in the PA DMV code.
 
A trailer needs to be pulled by a currently licensed vehicle....adding a license plate to your equation would make your ebike more illegal....especially with a trailer behind you.

Not to mention there is no way in hell your going to pull a trailer past a cop 50mph and not get noticed and then pulled over.

But do it, get pulled over and fight it..maybe you found a loop hole. :wink:
 
I am not worried about being pulled over in fact I would expect it. I am worried about WINNING in court.

whats this about a tagged trailer must be pulled by a tagged car. I never heard that before/did not think to check for that angle. Hmmm gonna have to figure out how to look up laws for that kind of thing :) they sure don't make it easy but will sure slap you with it if you miss it :)

to clarify. I have a little 40x40 inch trailer I use for my geo metro.

If I went outside now and hooked that up to my mountain bike (NO electric drive at all just hooked the empty trailer to it and rode down the street) I am violating the law?
 
Dude...

Your not planning to hook turn signals and a trailer cable to that mtb are you? If you are...you must know.... i am the founder of a movement to try to make turn signals illegal on all ebikes.

Why dont you put your theory to the test and borrow a neighbors riding lawn mower...hook that trailer up and pull that baby down main street at 7mph....

Send us a video and a riders report. Strap a go pro camera on the back of your trailer so we can see you truckin along....

My theory at 7mph people will just look at you funny...at 50 mph is when your going to have your day in court. :wink:
 
I have several riding mowers :) that would be an illegal motor vehicle on the roadway (though it actually might be covered under farm vehicle laws and therefore legal)

I am just saying if the Bicycle is legal and allowed on the road and the TRAILER is legal and allowed on the road "what changes" when you link them in the law? remember NO batteries or electric motor on the bike. all of thats on the trailer.
 
NERYS,

Any ebike going 50mph is illegal per US federal law. No way around it. Pulling a trailer would requre a giant battery too. The cost would be very high.

I belive your expectations are too high for electric.
 
it would not be an ebike. REGULAR pedal bike no motor no battery.

the TRAILER would carry the batter and the motor the TRAILER tires would actually be "powered"

ie a powered trailer pushing an UNPOWERED bicycle.

50mph is easy from a technical standpoint, just need money :) which I lack.

the trailer would mass around 20 pounds (with motor) and lithium batteries don't weigh that much.

I am 6'4" and nearly 400 pounds trust me the trailer would be "light" compared to me :)

in reality I am not likely to ever build it (lack of fund) but am curious if I could bypass the law legally.

if I got a ticket. your honor the bike has no motor. its pedal only.

the trailer has a motor? yes your honor ONLY the trailer has and its lawfully tagged and registered.

IE would it work. hypothetically what law would make it NOT work?
 
I think there is some law about endangering women and children and other innocent pedestrians. :idea: Oh yeah its called "wreckless endangerment"

I dont know of any specific laws against strapping a jet engine and a steering wheel to your trailer...but i am sure if you do it they will come up with a few.

Build that thing and they will come....they will come for you.
 
Jason27 said:
NERYS,

Any ebike going 50mph is illegal per US federal law. No way around it. Pulling a trailer would requre a giant battery too. The cost would be very high.

I belive your expectations are too high for electric.
Click to expand...

He would not be pulling a trailer, he would be pushing a bike LOL. If nothing else nerys gets credit for creative thinking!

Are there any laws governing a motorized trailer? I'm chuckling right now.
 
Heh yeah, have a lawyer ready if you attempt this.
Otherwise try the motorcycle / scooter route!

Don't you worry, they will make a law for you pretty quick, or bend one..
 
neptronix said:
Don't you worry, they will make a law for you pretty quick, or bend one..
Click to expand...

The spirit of the law is only applied when it benefits the government coffers, never when it benefits the public it was originally intended for.
 
Jason27 said:
Any ebike going 50mph is illegal per US federal law. No way around it. Pulling a trailer would requre a giant battery too. The cost would be very high.
Click to expand...

Jason27: please show us this "federal law". BTW, a trailer can be very aerodynamic and present little additional drag.


nerys: a pusher-trailer is a fine loophole for e-bike restrictions, IMO. I would not tag it, however.
 
It all kinda ignores the fact that there's no way in hell you want a push trailer, licensed or not, pushing you around at 50mph. Why not make it a remote controlled toy car pulling your bike at 50mph? There might be no law against that, and the tow car may not even need licensing. Of course it goes without saying that it would probably be just as unsafe as the licensed push-trailer idea, but the failure may make a better video for youtube. :mrgreen:
 
How will you control motor speed? I assume from the bike. And at that point the trailer becomes part of the bike. You now have a 4 wheeled motor vehicle which has the wrong plates, needs to be registered as a motor vehicle, needs an inspection sticker, etc. I'd throw the book at you and you wouldn't win.:)
They want as much money from you as they can possibly get. And one way or another, they're going to get it. Like the song says, freedoms just another word.....
 
You haven't changed anything by placing the motor in the trailer. The law refers to "electrically driven bicycle", it makes no mention of where the motor is.

If the motor is in a trailer, pushing, pulling, whatever, it is still driving the bicycle.

Another point: Are your tires rated for 50mph road use? If not, that's another violation.


Skip the bike and build an electric motorcycle with proper safety equipment.
 
In any case the fed law only applies for selling it, not riding it.

Even without reading the PA motor vehicle codes, I can confidently say they will find a way to stick it to you once you get to court. If you beat em once, you go on the official police " get this sob list" I spent high school on such a list, and you don't want to be on it. Belive me. They will simply charge you with something they can make stick the next time they see you, like reckless operation or whatever. As soon as you open your mouth, you'll be resisting, and can enjoy being tazed.

And btw, hope you like it that you will be frocking every single ebiker in your area.

Much better approach to just build a more moderatley overpowered ebike, say 40 mph club. Then ride it nice around other people, and slow down some and pedal like a cartoon character when you spot a cop. Working great almost everywhere for everybody. But NOOOOOOO you have to go and ride 50 mph on the street, and get the cops going on an anti ebike crusade.

Don't expect a warm welcome from most of us. Sure, build a fast bike, but don't go trying to stuff it down the throats of your local cops unless you want em to give you a 200 watt rule in your state. Ride your fast bike on a track, or ride it where you won't draw the cops at the very least.
 
When it comes to outlaw ebikes, I would worry more about trying not to get caught (by riding courteously, in reasonable zones etc) and less about trying to actually make them legal. A 50 mph ebike will never be legal on the road, thats just the reality.

Besides, a pusher trailer at 50mph would be the most unstable thing in the world... :)
 
dogman. I think you miss my entire point.

First I was not aware you could largely "get away" with going 40mph (that would be sufficient for me)

Second I guess I am encountering bias and thats to be expected just was not expecting so much violence potential.

I do not plan to POWER THE BIKE AT 50mph. I plan to PEDAL the bike at 50mph. (or whatever top speed ends up being practical) as I already stated I would PROBABLY be satisfied with 35-40mph. why 50? cause thats the average max speed on the roads I drive on so it made sense to toss out that number.

I don't even know if its possible for me to SUSTAIN 50mph pedaling. never tried an aeroshell bike. I KNOW I can't do it without an aeorshell.

I am very big on liberty and rights. the problem with an actual scooter or motorcycle is you have to ASK PERMISSION. you have to have a license you have to have a title and register and inspect and insure.

while I actually agree with insurance and "some" level of inspection everything else is power and profit only and nothing to do with safety and regulation.

I want to be LEGAL. technically scooting around at 40mph on an ebike is illegal.

again the plan was (mostly cause I am freaking broke) was to ACCELERATE from stops and up inclines with electric boost and PEDAL to cruise. not for legal reasons but for some affordability reasons. IE a much smaller battery pack would be needed :)

the trailer would be superficial at best VERY light. all up mass probably under 30 pounds. it would be RIGIDLY attached (but easily removed) to the bike IE it would not be able to "swing around or fish tail" think tandem bike rigid but I can remove it by simply unhooking like a trailer.

if this is something that is unwelcome here Fine I can understand that.

the whole point is not to screw ebikers - if it was clear THAT would be the result I probably would not do it. (if I could even ever afford to do it)

My point is. it is a RIGHT to drive. NOT a privilege. Make no mistake its a RIGHT and its Protected by the constitution. its ignored. Flat out ignored and people are brainwashed into believing its a privilege.

I am trying to find a way to take back my right in a practical (meaning fast enough to be usable as actual transportation for more than a few miles) and legal manner.

Licensing has gone from "your competent to drive" (not a problem) to a bludgeon and blackmail over our heads to force compliance with any number of driving irrelevant things and a profit source to force compliance with all kinds of crap. Why exactly do you have to "RE-REGISTER" a car every year? one reason only. Profit

why do you have to LITERALLY give up ownership of your car to register it? (titling) because otherwise they could not legally "hold" these laws over your head with the threat of "revoking" your fake privilege to operate it.

From a license to drive to a defacto illegal ID document. Just really eats me up.
 
This has been one of my favourite all time threads.

John had me peeing in my pants with laughter:

It all kinda ignores the fact that there's no way in hell you want a push trailer, licensed or not, pushing you around at 50mph. Why not make it a remote controlled toy car pulling your bike at 50mph? There might be no law against that, and the tow car may not even need licensing. Of course it goes without saying that it would probably be just as unsafe as the licensed push-trailer idea, but the failure may make a better video for youtube.
Click to expand...

I don't know how US laws work, but here in Australia what would make you illegal, is that the laws that relate to the registration of a trailer, by definition require that it not be powered. So basically here you would get busted for having modified your trailer out of its registrable requirements. Have no idea how US states work though.

But I really want to see a video of that remote control car idea in action....
 
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