Let's talk electrically heated clothing for EV users…

[Ykick]

It's that time of year again as the cold winds return to the Northern hemisphere. Most of us are probably digging out thick heavy outer wear, Balaclava, gloves, etc.

But what if I told you to just keep wearing the same light jacket you'd normally use on cool evenings? You can with electric clothing and the good news is that most of us already have plenty of battery capacity to siphon off 50Wh in order to do so.

Of course, electric clothing for motorcycles/snowmobiles is available but usually expensive and the 12VDC requirement is a bit of a riddle? I deal with it by using lighting battery and/or dc-dc convertor.

Kicking this around in another thread it was brought up to perhaps investigate higher voltage heating wire? I think that could be an excellent idea and something the DIY crowd could execute on a practical level? Got me looking around for 110VAC electric blankets, pipe heating wire or other sources of "heat wire" that can be re-purposed for our needs.

Using heated clothing for decades I've come to believe the most important item in the e-clothing scheme is the vest. if you can keep your core/chest warm, warmed blood will do more to help your extremities remain comfortable than practically any other article of e-clothing.

e-gloves or heated grips can be nice too but if I can only have one article of heated clothing, I'll take the vest every time. Worn under a light jacket you hardly know it's there while being able to brave the coldest of cold exposures with full range of movement and minimal additional weight.

Sorry, I don't have a lot of specifics - my old Widder vest is nearing 20 years old and sadly the company is no longer in business as evidenced by this tribute page: http://www.widder.com/

However, Iron Butt association seems to be offering Widder NOS items?
http://www.ibaestore.com/products.asp?MainCatID=2&CategoryID=48&

Here's what I've used for 2 decades and 1000's of miles:

In light of this it may be best to explore higher voltage heated clothing projects? If anybody wishes to share their journey perhaps this can become the dumping thread for DIY information? Or, if you start your own thread project feel free to drop a link here...

 

[MattyCiii]

Last year I made it through the winter with the gear listed below. Note the caveats - it was a pretty warm winter for Boston, and I was pedal power only (so I moved slower and generated a lot of heat):
1) Motorcycle "modular" (lifting chin bar) helmet. This kept eyes & ears warm in the wind, but I could lift the face at stops and cool off
2) Motorcycle jacket, regular pants. On extremely cold days, rain pants to keep wind off the legs.
3) I had purchased electric/heated glove liners, but hardly used them because again the mild winter. Temps down to 20*f were bearable with normal winter gloves. On the few days I did wear the electric liners, it was a pain to put on liners, then gloves, and take them off - on/off - on/off as I rode. See, unlike cruising a couple hours on a motorcycle as these things are intended, my 30 minute ride in extreme cold involves going a ways, stopping to change up my clothing (normally to remove some as I get hot), etc.
Since I already own the power source (4s LiPo hard case in the pocket), and the heater "controller", I think this year I'll buy the gloves with the heater built in - rather than use the glove liners and regular gloves. This will make things one step more convenient.

This winter will be a big test for me, as I'm now electric assisted. Arriving at the train all sweaty when it's 25*f out is no picnic, just as moving 25mph into a 10mph head wind while not all hot from pedaling is a chill.

 

[Ykick]

Yes, 2011-2012 was a mild winter along the Eastern USA and needs will likely change as cold climate intensity increases.

I could see how gloves might become a PITA. Starting with 2qty power leads and while I enjoy warm fingers I have good gaunlets that so far have been more than adequate when fed warm blood flow by way of the heated vest. Which, by contrast, is very easy to get on/off while easily fitting under lightweight outer shells. One power lead and done.

Heated grips/bars are probably a nice way to go for simplicity (after initial installation of course) and I'm considering something along those lines if things become noticeably unbearable as Winter drags on. Heated grips/bars allow for much broader choice of gloves and rain gear as well.

Like most cyclists' we spend a lot of time & energy peeling in/out of heavy, bulky clothes. At least until I found that Widder vest, it's now very simple. Dress light and comfortable, adjust heat to a comfortable level and enjoy the ride!

 

[MattyCiii]

You make some great points, especially about heated grips. Before I spend any more on heated gloves, perhaps heated grips plus BMX type hand guards will work just as well or better, and eliminate the pain-in-the-ass factor.

 

[Kingfish]

In the dead of winter, in the freezing biting rain, in the pitch blackness of a late December evening, the tips of my fingers will get cold. Second to that are my toes and face. Regardless of the cold, most of my body warms within 90 seconds of riding. The challenge is not becoming warm during riding, but staying warm at rest, like at a stoplight, or – if experiencing a technical problem like a flat tire where we’re standing around fixing the issue or waiting for a ride in bicycle gear that is designed to shed heat.

I have access to 12 VDC, although it only provides up to 60W. My thinking is that if we can keep the extremities warm then the rest of the body will do well. I have really nice winter boots, and rarely do my toes get real cold, unless I am drenched to the bone and hungry. The tips of my fingers are the worst of it though cos gloves are the most difficult to waterproof.

I’d like to see some sort of very lightweight material… maybe in pre-cut shapes, or Kevlar-backed that can be added to the bottom of soles or tips of gloves which produce mild induction heat. However that implies that we’re wearing extension cords to power these devices, and it is difficult to imagine the implementation without a bit of cursing. Perhaps if instead of conductors we used RF to energize the coil… just a thought.

My ½ W, KF

 

[Xanda2260]

Was reading this with interest until I did the maths and realised that 20F is -6C! Thats a mild winter for you guys? Jeeesus, the last two winters have been colder than for the last decade and they just touched -8C! The whole country ground to a halt!
Thinking electric clothing might not be needed here...

Respect to you guys cycling in mega low temps!

 

[Doctorbass]

I am thinking about a new idea: using the wasted heat of the motor to heat our cloth... with the liquid cooling project i might try that...

I would just need to get some tygon tubing and to insert it in a jacket and circulate that great heated liquid into it with a pump...

I would call it Doc's ultimate Liquid heated jacket based on hub motor!

 

[MattyCiii]

Was reading this with interest until I did the maths and realised that 20F is -6C! Thats a mild winter for you guys? Jeeesus, the last two winters have been colder than for the last decade and they just touched -8C! The whole country ground to a halt!

Yeah the name "New England" is totally wrong when it comes to the weather.

I was a mild winter last year because there were very few days where the low was below 30*f (-1C). There wasn't a lot of snow either.

A cold winter in Southern New England can have a handful of 0*f (-17*c) days or below, and lots of days in the tens and teens.

 

[iamsofunny]

last winter I used my ski gear and it was adequate. It takes 10 minutes to put all my clothes on. Normally in the summer I don't even wear clothes, because of government loopholes considering animals to be free .. okay this joke is not working out.

But ski pants, ski jacket, thermal underwear top and bottom, scarf thing, ski helmet, ski goggles, mittens, it's adequate for the -5 weather. I don't even leave the house if it's below -10. I just sit in front of the computer , pick a language and study. Last winter I learned the language of a Swazi mountain tribe and could you believe they don't have any grammar rules?

 

[The fingers]

I wear steel-toed work boots commuting to work and the toe cap is like an ice cube which stays cold all day, even with insulated boots. Two pairs of thermal socks usually is warm enough, but it is nice to know that electric socks are an available option. A neoprene face protector for freezing cold mornings would also be cool. 8)

 

[el_walto]

This is what I wore last winter for riding. Most days -7C -17C

Thick winter gloves from Costco.
Gortex Lined Hiking boots
Base Layer + Pajama Bottoms + Pants
t-shirt + base layer + down jacket + winter jacket with hood that covers helmet and face.
It worked OK, finger tips still got cold. Forehead would sometimes freeze a bit.
This year i got some goggles which should help cover the only exposed spot i have.

I was only riding for 15 minute intervals. Any longer would be bad on really cold days.

Shwalbe ice spiker tires. They don't hold up that well, this year spent another 200$ on nokian studded tires. I'll see if they last longer or have strong sidewalls.

 

[amberwolf]

DIY electric stuff is not hard, and can be powered from the traction pack. See my post here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=638149#p638149
quoted below:

Regarding electric blankets, with the pack voltages many of us run, you could use a regular one, and use half the length of wire in it.

It is easy to get the wire out without destroying it as a blanket, too, if you are careful with a razor blade or thread-cutter/seamripper. I've done it to make heated costumes, pillows, robes, etc., some of them battery powered but usually wall-powered.

Some of the electronics are easy to make work on battery power, and some are a single IC chip designed to direclty run off AC power, and won't work on DC or on less than about 100VAC. Some are not even electronic, but just mechanical thermal switches; they should work with anything.

Goodwill usually has electric blankets for a few dollars, most often they include everything but sometimes theyr'e onlya dollar or two because they have only the blanket--if all you need is the heating wire, that's fine.

And of course you can find the clothing to convert at thrift stores and yard sales, as well.

 

[Alan B]

I have been using a Venture vest, 12 volts and the controller has four power settings. Power it with a LifePO4 4S Zippy 4.2 amp hour battery of its own. Works well as I can power it or not, and select different levels.

It would be easy to build a PWM controller to power it from the main battery. Or use a 12V adapter.

It is not all that cold here, but this is easier to control than lots of extra clothing.

 

[Ykick]

Good info there AW, thanks man!

Got me thinking 'might also look into scavenging heaters from curling and soldering irons to try fitting inside handlebars? I suppose wrap with aluminum foil to fit snuggly and conduct heat. Small hole to exit wires, switch, thermostat, etc.

Along those lines I also found many new cartridge heaters on eBay for Die molding that would work too.

Am I correct in thinking 120VAC 40W rated heater should pull about 15-20W from 60VDC?

Exactly Alan B - much easier to use a few Watts instead of guessing what and how much extra clothing to add for extreme cold.

If/when LEV's prosper and multiply, this sorta thing may very well become a full fledged industry of it's own?

 

[Alan B]

Half the voltage will also be half the current so one quarter the power.

 

[Ykick]

Half the voltage will also be half the current so one quarter the power.

'should've known that but appeciate your help! Thanks...

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Years ago I made some heated insoles to go in my flying boots, made a tremendous difference in cold weather (warm feet are happy feet.............).

I just used some fine PTFE hook up wire (around 30 AWG IIRC) as the heating element and made a simple PWM controller with a pot to set a comfortable power level (by trial and error). I reckon the same approach could be used to make a heated vest, long johns or even gloves. The controller would be pretty simple to make and could even be made universal (in terms of voltage) and temperature controlled if need be.

 

[amberwolf]

It would be easy to build a PWM controller to power it from the main battery.

Brushed motor controller.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

It would be easy to build a PWM controller to power it from the main battery.

Brushed motor controller.

That'd certainly be an easy option, just fit a pot in place of the throttle.

 

[Alan B]

It would be easy to build a PWM controller to power it from the main battery.

Brushed motor controller.

That'd certainly be an easy option, just fit a pot in place of the throttle.

That would work, but is significantly larger and more complicated than necessary.

 

[Kingfish]

haha :lol:

Yes, a mini-me controller. But does it regen? And what parts of the body are suitable to regenerate?

:wink:

Inspired, KF

 

[countermeasure]

You can build your own heated clothing with this part.

5 cm x 15 cm flexible heating pad. $4.95.
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11289

There is also a 5 cm x 10 cm version.

In 2 minutes, it'll heat up to 63 degree C, or 145 F. And then it pretty much stays around that range. Someone mentioned 5 V dc, 0.7 A as power consumption. I suppose if you have 2 or 3 in series, it'll work for 12v to 15v application.

It'll make a good battery warmer as well.

 

[Bazaki]

Very interessting topic.

I was looking for the heating pad above, thanks ! But it seems to be in backorder.

I also found this :

http://dx.com/p/usb-heated-warm-gloves-for-men-color-assorted-pair-30366?item=2

I want to try the heating pad in the DX glove running at a 2s lipo 1ah ( or 2x 18650 2.2 mah ) and fit inside another glove

Something like this because the thing that really gets cold are the fingertips and I hope that the heating pad will fit deeper inside this kind of glove.

There are battery heated gloves but mostly above 200 USD.

If this will work out I can make even more mileage per year and get rid of at least one car

 

[bluegoatwoods]

Sorry, I'm going just a bit off-topic here. But it's tangentially related. (well, maybe it's not so off-topic, now that I think about it.)

Rather than bother with electrically heated gloves, I'd recommend bar-mitts. They make a huge difference in overall comfort. More than just the hands. Plus they protect your electronics, brake levers, shifters and such from the winter weather.

I've noticed that ones made for ATVs and such are pretty cheap. I might buy a few pair. But in the past I've just made my own. Here's a photo.

 

[cal3thousand]

You can build your own heated clothing with this part.

5 cm x 15 cm flexible heating pad. $4.95.
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11289

There is also a 5 cm x 10 cm version.

In 2 minutes, it'll heat up to 63 degree C, or 145 F. And then it pretty much stays around that range. Someone mentioned 5 V dc, 0.7 A as power consumption. I suppose if you have 2 or 3 in series, it'll work for 12v to 15v application.

It'll make a good battery warmer as well.

Nice!! Some 18650s would not be hard to carry around on a vest