'lightest.bike' 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

[ornias]

"After we'll have completed the OEMs' motors, we'll dedicate ourselves 100% in completing the production line"

This is TLDR for:
We took your money and instead of investing into the promised bike-upgrade kits, we've invested in building OEM Motors instead.


Basically they stole your money and invested it into another product.
And the whole 'blabla' about motor windings is laughable, the most production/R&D work on ebike motors is not the simple fact of building/winding basic electomotors.

 

[richj8990]

You will need a freewheel on the chainring, so if your ISIS cranks have this you'll be able to use them.

From Chalo on a different thread:
That's true whether or not the crank freewheels. If the chainring won't stop turning, bad things will happen. It makes little difference whether the pedals come along for the ride or not.

I think a non-freewheeling crank with a well chosen speed ratio between motor and cranks has an excellent side benefit: By shifting to keep the pedal cadence in a comfortable range, you simultaneously shift to keep the motor in its efficient range.

Also, a non-freewheeling crank neatly avoids all the chronic problems that arise with freewheels than overrun with tension on the chain.



I'd really, really, really like to use Hollowtech II instead of a 20th century technology known as Square-Taper for the bottom bracket. Worst-case scenario is I use their cranks, buy a square-taper and take out my external bottom brackets. I don't really see the problem with securing the motor housing with thinner (XTR) external bearings and then running a normal Shimano pair of cranks (and a double chainring with something like this is possible, unlike a BBSxx). Someone else said PAS can't be used without a freewheel on the crank. Is that correct? Why wouldn't the PAS level simply turn the cranks at a certain speed and then you pedal for a few more watts, not unlike a hub drive? And if the cranks turn too fast even in 11t on the cassette just run a big 48-52T chainring, right?

 

[pxl666]

is this finally possible to buy ?

 

[richj8990]

is this finally possible to buy ?

Yes, but with a caveat. The Italians always make things interesting, no?

They said the 'discounted' motor will be more expensive this month (January 2023) once standard production starts rolling. That makes no sense at all. The production model should be cheaper not more expensive!!!

I think some of the other more cynical posters on here may unfortunately be correct about this company. I smell bait and switch, as in buy it cheap while you can, before we go out of business.

I'd still really like to use Hollowtech and 2x up front on some type of mid drive that doesn't have the square-taper axle attached to the motor housing; I don't think it would work with the CYC because that's too complicated with two chains and Hollowtech II would not fit everything needed between the cranks unless it was a boosted crankset (or superboosted). So probably just do the BBS02 and be done with it.

 

[larsb]

The setup for crowdfunding is like this, right? To raise funds a number of nonexistent parts are promised at a reduced price. Funds go into buying materials, development, tooling, certifications etc. Reduced price is because you take the risk for not getting parts with full spec - or even anything at all if development is unsuccesful.

If succesful the developed parts will be sold at the normal price.

You have to check the stuff that they supposedly did for the raised funds and judge if it will be enough to deliver before buying.

 

[pxl666]

I'm asking because I know this is some years already before this get advertised and still no product to just click and buy ? is anyone using this motor already ? or is this still "give us money and wait" type of thing ?
is this new form factor of the motor ?

https://youtu.be/aE3YVf88Su0

 

[marjoriefinnigan]

Just had an email saying they're starting production, products going out in Feb
Website has changed a bit too, but still lacking tech drawings and details.

 

[Chalo]

Ooh, delivering in February. I'll believe it when I see it.

I suspect the system has gained some weight (and possibly shed some watts) during its seclusion, if in fact its seclusion is ending.

 

[neptronix]

I'm asking because I know this is some years already before this get advertised and still no product to just click and buy ? is anyone using this motor already ? or is this still "give us money and wait" type of thing ?
is this new form factor of the motor ?

https://youtu.be/aE3YVf88Su0

I'm not even sure if these are for sale anymore. I wouldn't suggest buying their previous product which is entirely different and nowhere near as good.

I did not receive an email from them, but at least i heard about it on the 'sphere!

 

[neptronix]

I suspect the system has gained some weight (and possibly shed some watts) during its seclusion, if in fact its seclusion is ending.

From what i can tell it may have lost weight due to the magnesium endshields being included.

 

[neptronix]

They said the 'discounted' motor will be more expensive this month (January 2023) once standard production starts rolling. That makes no sense at all. The production model should be cheaper not more expensive!!!

I think some of the other more cynical posters on here may unfortunately be correct about this company. I smell bait and switch, as in buy it cheap while you can, before we go out of business.

The main reason i took a chance on them is that they have delivered a product before.

It's a classic indiegogo tactic to sell the first version at a reduced price. That allows you to get more sales ahead of time and fund an otherwise expensive project ( they built a factory line for making these things )

You raise the price later so you can actually make money.
In this case due to the supply chain effects of covid mitigation it is possible that these guys actually lost money because the cost of everything they were trying to get exploded during those 2 years.

I know a few owners of ebike/bike companies and they have all told me that the supply chain issues nearly put them under. I'm willing to believe this was a factor in the delay.

I understand how fishy it seems but i think they are going to ship a product.

 

[marjoriefinnigan]

I'm really interested but would like to see one out in the wild first.

 

[1boris]

 

[neptronix]

Thanks for that! I've watched it on youtube with the closed caption translations.
Wow, the converted bike was 17kg or 37lbs, that is impressive even though we're talking about a carbon fiber based bike.

Of course it blew the Bosch's away; that's obvious.
Selectable power levels and tons of other settings in the screen is great.

I love how it seems to preserve the original chain line. It looks like it doesn't negatively affect the Q factor while pedaling, so it should be great for pedaling.
I wonder about the lifespan of the drive sprocket, but it appears to be easily replaceable.

Looking forward to doing my own review. Turns out it's not vaporware

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

What’s the gear ratio? 120nm torque out of such a small unit sounds difficult

 

[neptronix]

What’s the gear ratio? 120nm torque out of such a small unit sounds difficult

I think you have a couple options to select what the gear ratio is.

It is possible with high end motor designs ( imagine 1 step of quality below an astro motor ) to achieve this kind of power in this tiny size due to high efficiency motors.
The CYC Pro mid drives have exceptional power density because they use a super thin lamination RC-like motor themselves.

Having not done a thermal evaluation or inspection of the innards myself, i'd say it's possible. Whether they achieved it or not is the question

TBH if it's a thermal underperformer then it would still be a very nice 750w mid drive in the absolute worst case.. considering it's tiny weight.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

Looking purely at torque output i think thinner laminations have slightly more glue and less steel and are a hair worse at producing max torque.

What torque comes off the internal gearing before the bike’s typical gearing I wonder.

 

[neptronix]

This is true but thicker laminations produce more heat per watt, and the higher the RPM the motor spins, the larger the punishment.
The increased efficiency from thin laminations creates more power than heat and this negates the fact that there may be a bit less iron, power wise.

This is why we had amazing $3000 recumpence drives in 2011 outputting more watts than the chain can handle.. high rpm + high reduction + high efficiency motor has always been the winning combo.

 

[marjoriefinnigan]

Thanks for the info guys!
Any idea if they are actually being shipped yet?

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

This is true but thicker laminations produce more heat per watt, and the higher the RPM the motor spins, the larger the punishment.
The increased efficiency from thin laminations creates more power than heat and this negates the fact that there may be a bit less iron, power wise.

This is why we had amazing $3000 recumpence drives in 2011 outputting more watts than the chain can handle.. high rpm + high reduction + high efficiency motor has always been the winning combo.

I agree a thin lamination motor and a big gear reduction is a great combo for producing a light yet powerful bike and why I recently made this bike. (.15mm laminations and 7:1 gear reduction). I just wonder how efficient the gear reduction is and what ratio is coming out of the package. It would be nice to have a smaller more protected gear reduction that was as efficient and quiet as belts n chains if possible.

 

[neptronix]

Thanks for the info guys!
Any idea if they are actually being shipped yet?

I haven't received any notification. I only know that a third party has a copy of it.

 

[shirk]

Has anyone ridden one of these yet?

 

[neptronix]

Not that i know of, other than that privileged reviewer.

Per the last update they're sitting in a warehouse waiting on the testing rig to be fixed.
Lightest ebike kit: YOUR BIKE WITH SUPERPOWERS

 

[Chalo]

If they're as good at engineering the thing as they have been at bringing it to market, it should be a real barrel of laughs.

 

[richj8990]

I gave up waiting for this lightest bike one and instead got this: L-Faster / Dome Motor 450W Mid-Drive Build

Not without its issues, like stock controller sucking and PAS not working for example, but the throttle gets me to where I want offroad.
The cool thing about this one is that you can choose from many different controllers/displays for it, because it's open source and basically a chain-driven direct drive. Also you can modify the mounting plates and choose the crankset you want as long as it's 2-3x, which is a lot better than trying to shove a Bafang BSSxx into a thick carbon frame (or really any modern mountain bike frame). Again this kit is far from perfect, but if I could get it to work, you probably can too. The power is real and it ramps up very fast. I don't even need to use the lower gears uphill with a 34T chainring.