LightningRods mid drive kit

Very curious what a PV Next-Gen controller and an XXL could do as a combo for (light) motorcycles. Seems a nice match when dialed in correctly.
 
Chances are very good that you’ll get to see an example. I have a nice ‘66 Honda Sport 90 that I plan to put this combination on. Dyno tests have shown that the XXL puts out 50 ft lbs and 18kW. Vad’s NextGen should push even more watts through the XXL thanks to higher voltage. Since my S90 had around 9 HP from the factory I’ll have about twice the horsepower and 4 or five times the peak torque. Should be fun!
 
Here is the dyno sheet on the XXL, kindly provided by Greg at High Voltage Kits. The kv of the XXL is 62 rpm/volt, the same as the XL and Big Block. The Small Block is the exception with a kv of 67 rpm/volt. I use the highest kv available from the factory. I tried the lower kv motors and noticed no increase in torque. They did make noticeably less rpm which meant either less speed or less reduction which actually equates to a reduction in torque. Torque windings may work for hub motors but my observation was that it wasn't desirable with these motors.
XXLDyno.jpg
 
LightningRods said:
Here is the dyno sheet on the XXL, kindly provided by Greg at High Voltage Kits. The kv of the XXL is 62 rpm/volt, the same as the XL and Big Block. The Small Block is the exception with a kv of 67 rpm/volt. I use the highest kv available from the factory. I tried the lower kv motors and noticed no increase in torque. They did make noticeably less rpm which meant either less speed or less reduction which actually equates to a reduction in torque. Torque windings may work for hub motors but my observation was that it wasn't desirable with these motors.
XXLDyno.jpg
Click to expand...

are you able to include output power?
 
LightningRods said:
I can’t imagine why you’d need more than nine gears. I haven’t sold dual chainrings in many years. I’d recommend a Wolf Tooth ‘Drop Stop’ front chainring in a 1x9. Your chain drop issues have nothing to do with the mid drive. It’s 100% the interaction between the front chainring and chain. Most commonly it’s caused by a worn chainring that has turned the teeth into hooks.
Some LBS mechanics can be amazingly ignorant and cowardly. When you find a good one you have a treasure
Click to expand...

Have converted to a 1x9 drivetrain using a narrow wide 38t chainring. Can report the drive train is rock solid. thank you for your input and excellent customer support even after 7 years Mike :)

Keep up the great work, you continue to evolve amazingly engineered quality products.
 
Motor power has continually increased over the ten years that I’ve been designing and building mid drives. We’re presently at 18kW. Definitely motorcycle power. Here’s a video of a newly completed Motoped build with my largest motor, the XXL, and a High Voltage tuned ASI BAC8000 controller.
https://youtu.be/aES9q7ICj0s
 
Does that motor need the $1900.00 High Voltage tuned ASI BAC8000 controller to break 70mph at the mere high voltage[ as displayed in video] of 72 volts using some 14,000+ watts?

The Fardriver ND72530_24 can get my bike to 70 mph with just over 10,000 watts at a cost of <$300.

Or get the Fardriver ND96530 delivered $381.65. It can honestly handle 117 volts.

Your good kit would look more affordable if you had proofed a much less expensive Fardriver controller.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I don’t sell controllers. People are free to use any controller they want. This customer wanted the ASI and wasn’t concerned with the price.
 
If you get a good controller and battery that can feed it 10kW the Big Block will wake that LMX right up. Reduction should also be about 8:1. I’m not sure what they run.
 
10kW sure sounds like the figure to soon for.

I can't get to 8:1 gearing at the moment, best I can do is 7:1, preference is to use your 15t motor sprocket to avoid the worst of chordal effects of small sprockets.

I've had a couple 105t rocket kart sprockets on the shelf for the best part of a decade. That give me 7:1 at least until I can figure out how I can get a hold of a 120t sprocket.

Any ideas where to source a 120?

IMG_20230123_141656_copy_528x1152.jpg
 
PS - Finally received my pre-order Nuc 24f, so controller is sorted. Battery will be 16s 8p Samsung 40t.

Bike will be mostly used in the dirt, so hoping to wind up the phase amps for climbing steep hills.
 
TBH I’ve never seen a 105T 219. The largest I’ve found are 96T. The diameter of a 120T 219 is 11.7” by the way.
The 24F Nucular is plenty of controller. You might be okay at 7:1 considering how light your bike is. Top speed will be around 55 mph @ 20S.
 
The LMX64 belt pulley is about 12" (300mm) diameter, so plenty of clearance for a mega sprocket. I'll also be running the belt drive tensioner pulley that routes the chain so that about half of the motor sprocket teeth will be engaged by the chain.

All up weight should be in the region of 35kg (78lb) taking into account the bigger battery, motor and controller.

Top speed at 16s is fine for what I'm after, anything around 40mph will do nicely.
 
briangv99 said:
10kW sure sounds like the figure to soon for.

I can't get to 8:1 gearing at the moment, best I can do is 7:1, preference is to use your 15t motor sprocket to avoid the worst of chordal effects of small sprockets.

I've had a couple 105t rocket kart sprockets on the shelf for the best part of a decade. That give me 7:1 at least until I can figure out how I can get a hold of a 120t sprocket.

Any ideas where to source a 120?

IMG_20230123_141656_copy_528x1152.jpg
Click to expand...

Are you using #219 chain? You could laser cut a 120 tooth sprocket from 3/16" aluminum. Not sure if you guys have something like https://sendcutsend.com/ in Australia. I lasered a #25 sprocket from 1/8" aluminum that's working quite well on my bike.
 
thepronghorn said:
Are you using #219 chain? You could laser cut a 120 tooth sprocket from 3/16" aluminum. Not sure if you guys have something like https://sendcutsend.com/ in Australia. I lasered a #25 sprocket from 1/8" aluminum that's working quite well on my bike.
Click to expand...

Yeah, using #219. I'm sure there must be a laser or water jet service that could do the job, think I just need to do a bit of research. I have used Rebel Gears in the past to do a custom #25 sprocket. They don't have a listing to do #219 though.

Member Toolman2, who lives nearby got some water jet cut sprockets for his custom built dirt bike, should hit him up for some details

[youtube]_Y-_i24yV44[/youtube]
 
electric scooter parts for less can make custom 219 sprockets up to 150T.

https://electricscooterparts.com/custom-made-sprockets.html

Can a temp sensor be added to the xxl motor? Is there a way to easily connect it to an analog (or digital) gauge w/o needing a cycle analyst or Arduino or pie boards? I know you’re thinking I should know this but I wanted to find out your recommendations.

2 XXL big blocks powering a smart car? Maybe? Unconfirmed it’s 1500-1800 lbs. with the gas crap removed. I’m finding websites with conversions with similar power used.
 
Looking at my chain stay clearances, it doesn't look like I can go too much larger, maybe 120t max, before the chain starts rubbing the chain stay.

I'd found that 150t on the electric scooters website too, but it has a disc brake size bolt pattern, so beside the problem of being too large, the non kart bolt pattern wouldn't work with the LMX hub.
 
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