LightningRods mid drive kit

[spinningmagnets]

Temporary peaks of power can be higher, but 30A is a fairly safe limit for continuous loads, for motors this size.

edit: I am assembling a chart of various common motors' "tangential magnet speeds", so it can be discussed, and perhaps become a useful method to add to the others as a way of evaluating one motor against another.

A high magnet speed has the practial effect of lowering the amps drawn per a given load, compared to a low-RPM motor with the same load.

Worst case scenario: a small diameter direct drive hub (408?), large diameter wheel, long slow uphill, low volts / high amps.

Compared to: large diameter hub (Magic Pie?), small diameter wheel (20"?), flat ground, high volts / low amps.

Even better: BB_drive, shift down to a lower gear on steep hill, motor stays near 3,000-RPMs (GNG / LR / Ecospeed?)

 

[emaayan]

Temporary peaks of power can be higher, but 30A is a fairly safe limit for continuous loads, for motors this size.

so i can't use it with 40 amps like i'm using with BMC?

 

[--freeride--]

I would choose 80:15 in the secondary and your 50:20 bicycle gearing. The bike will then top out between 55kph and 65kph depending on how fast and hard you want to pedal.

My speed calculator says 1500W is good for 58kph, 30A would be 1500W at 50V, so you have to pedal to get to 60kph, the bike will run around 50kph without pedaling. If you want to be faster get a BIG Block

Why would you like to rewind the motor? Low KV is good, you need less reduction.

 

[emaayan]

I would choose 80:15 in the secondary and your 50:20 bicycle gearing. The bike will then top out between 55kph and 65kph depending on how fast and hard you want to pedal.

My speed calculator says 1500W is good for 58kph, 30A would be 1500W at 50V, so you have to pedal to get to 60kph, the bike will run around 50kph without pedaling. If you want to be faster get a BIG Block

Why would you like to rewind the motor? Low KV is good, you need less reduction.

pedaling at high speeds is out of the question, my high speeds should only attainable via throttle alone, i found that pedaling at such speeds is not exactly stable for a bike.

any pedaling i'll do will have to be along the torque sensor , that's why i'm getting it in the first place, and don't forget i'll need to commute to work

one thing i don't understand, you said 1500 is good for 58kph, but then you said the bike will run around 50kph without pedaling, so which is it?

BIG block can''t be used with gears and needs a bb larger then 68 mm, so for me that's like using a hub motor minus the large weight behind. i'm interesting in maximizing gear usage as much as i can.

i've heard that 35 amps can still be used with this motor, and that may get me to 55 kph?

 

[LightningRods]

And on a related topic, how many angels can we fit on the head of a pin?

 

[emaayan]

And on a related topic, how many angels can we fit on the head of a pin?

i have no idea but i'll get back to you on that once i finally have the kit , until then my brain will keep spinning on it with no load until it burns out ..

 

[LightningRods]

I only pray that getting the kit will provide some relief for you (and us). :lol:

 

[emaayan]

I only pray that getting the kit will provide some relief for you (and us). :lol:

hey, at least i'll already be informed to ask NEW questions if it won't, just imagine we'll all be in square one, in 1-2,3 weeks when i get the kit, so alllll the questions you saw earlier would have been asked then, so there IS progress..

 

[spinningmagnets]

so I can't use it with 40 amps like I'm using with BMC?

I believe the description you provided about the BMC motor suggests there may have been some heat damage, although (of course) you stated that it still runs. If you want to use a 40A cap on the controller amps, the LR kit will be fine...IF...there is an occasional "cruise" phases on the ride to allow the motor and controller to cool off a little.

Most Builders are talking about shifting the gears to keep the motor in the efficiency zone, to prevent making extra heat in the first place, but you have posted about wanting to use the gears in a way that is not recommended. It sounds like you want me to guarantee that you can use this awesome kit in a way that nobody is recommending. I am not trying to be difficult...I am just saying that when I am experimenting, I understand that using any tool in an odd way, might have odd results.

If you want to really push the performance limits of any motor, I suggest you add a temp sensor. The ultimate set-up is to also have a Cycle Analyst V3, so you can use the programmable automatic thermal roll back of amps. Once the motor cools down a little...full amps are automatically restored.

 

[emaayan]

so I can't use it with 40 amps like I'm using with BMC?

I believe the description you provided about the BMC motor suggests there may have been some heat damage, although (of course) you stated that it still runs. If you want to use a 40A cap on the controller amps, it will be fine...IF...there is an occasional "cruise" phases on the ride to allow the motor and controller to cool off a little.

Most Builders are talking about shifting the gears to keep the motor in the efficiency zone, to prevent making extra heat in the first place, but you have posted about wanting to use the gears in a way that is not recommended. It sounds like you want me to guarantee that you can use this awesome kit in a way that nobody is recommending. I am not trying to be difficult...I am just saying that when I am experimenting, I understand that using any tool in an odd way, might have odd results.

If you want to really push the performance limits of any motor, I suggest you add a temp sensor. The ultimate set-up is to also have a Cycle Analyst V3, so you can use the programmable automatic thermal roll back of amps. Once the motor cools down a little...full amps are automatically restored.

you mean like the one i requested L-R to install from the moment i learned he does that? and connect it to my already running CA3 ?

i have no idea what's the efficiency zone, how to measure one in the first place. if i knew , i'd print it out and frame it next to my bed.

i have something better, the CA data logger with gps is always connected, so i'll be able to share the entire ride's path, along with voltage,amps,watts,heat,speed etc.. (just not the gears i'm using) and now that justin made it graphical on a map, you'll be able to see the kits performance in graphic details.

 

[LightningRods]

Don't try to confuse Emaayan with logic, Spinningmagnets! :lol:

 

[izeman]

i already gave up. i tried my best and failed. i will follow this thread as silent reader and finish my own bikes. *ggg*

 

[windtrader]

Maybe it would be beneficial for emaayan to start his LR build thread and post his questions, ideas, and answers in that thread. Just an idea

 

[LightningRods]

To be fair to him I have to give him something to put on his bike in order to write that build thread. His order is a time hole because of rewiring the motor and other special tasks. I just need to get it done so that he has something to play with.

I'm going to do my best to get four kits shipped this week, one of them being Emaayan's. My short term goal is a kit a day soon to become two kits a day. Once I get traction this build queue is going to disappear pretty fast.

 

[LightningRods]

Part of this week's production. Regular length 73mm wide kits are going to Vincent D. and Dawson J. and a stretch 73mm is going out to James D. Also shipping this week are Bryan K's 68mm and (if he's very good) Emaayan's custom wired 68mm with thermistor, extra sprockets, no BB, hold the onions and dressing on the side.

Lightning Rods Honor Roll- 8/11/2014

"X" denotes kit currently in production.

Completed- Ron R- US
Completed- Eric- US
Completed- Ken F- Canada
Completed- Dennis P- Canada
Completed- David B- UK
Completed- Leif D- US
Completed- Herman L- US
1- Elhanan M- Israel X
2- Dawson J- Canada X
3- James D- Canada X
4- Bryan K- US X
5- Vincent D- Canada X
6- Brian M- US X
7- Jeremy L- US X
8- Andrew F- UK X
9- Tom F- US X
10- Stephen F- Switz X
11- Paul D- US X
12- Richard K- US X
13- Zach J- US X
14- Dean M- US X
15- Derek M- Canada
16- Tom E- Australia
17- Nathan B- Canada
18- Fabrice V- France
19- John B- Florida, US
20- Steven H- CA, US
21- Nathan B- Canada
22- Jason S- TX, US
23- Sid A- Australia
24- Wayne S- UK

 

[Cryptic]

Yessssss! I made it on the list.

Now, if I want to move up the list at 85sph (slots per hour) and I have a full set of teeth, what cv (caffeine volts) does Mike need to run at? :lol:

 

[emaayan]

Yessssss! I made it on the list.

Now, if I want to move up the list at 85sph (slots per hour) and I have a full set of teeth, what cv (caffeine volts) does Mike need to run at? :lol:

i would recommended installing heat sensor first.. dude working in a 95 degrees shop you don't want HIM burning out.

 

[Cryptic]

Good call bro :lol:

 

[emaayan]

btw won't those the plate between the BB brackets get in the way of middle kickstand i have behind the BB ? or does that come right under the BB?

 

[Rotems]

Hello,

Can someone upload a photo of the best loacation to place the heat sensor in the motor?

Thank you
Rotem

 

[--freeride--]

pedaling at high speeds is out of the question.

Then maybe a Motorcycle should be the better option or a Big block without pedals.
I am sure you will kill the alfine 11 very fast with the L-R kit. I had one and it was not able to stand a 300W motor.

one thing i don't understand, you said 1500 is good for 58kph, but then you said the bike will run around 50kph without pedaling, so which is it?

1500W electric input is not equal with 1500W mechanical output at your rear wheel right? And you need that 1500W mechanical output for 58kph.

So lets say you get out 1200W mechanical when you put in 1500W electric, what may be to much... thats 53kph then.
1000W mechanical is 50kph. If you put in another 300W mechanical with your legs you are getting faster

You need 1700w mechanical, for 60kph. 35Ax50V is 1750W electrical... so you will need to switch to 72V with the L-R Kit for a 60kph setup
or you think about aerodynamics.
A Road-Bike with a low handlebar will do 60kph with 1000w mechanical.

 

[emaayan]

pedaling at high speeds is out of the question.

Then maybe a Motorcycle should be the better option or a Big block without pedals.
I am sure you will kill the alfine 11 very fast with the L-R kit. I had one and it was not able to stand a 300W motor.

one thing i don't understand, you said 1500 is good for 58kph, but then you said the bike will run around 50kph without pedaling, so which is it?

1500W electric input is not equal with 1500W mechanical output at your rear wheel right? And you need that 1500W mechanical output for 58kph.

So lets say you get out 1200W mechanical when you put in 1500W electric, what may be to much... thats 53kph then.
1000W mechanical is 50kph. If you put in another 300W mechanical with your legs you are getting faster

You need 1700w mechanical, for 60kph. 35Ax50V is 1750W electrical... so you will need to switch to 72V with the L-R Kit for a 60kph setup
or you think about aerodynamics.
A Road-Bike with a low handlebar will do 60kph with 1000w mechanical.

i was able to use the alifne rather well with bmc at 2000 watts, and only recently i had to replace it,and that maybe due to me not adjusting it correctly.

so if L-R's is so powerful then my current setup, or i'm over estimating it.

this is basically leads to what i was afraid of, a new battery pack ,the most expansive link here.

 

[Deanwvu]

Hello,

Can someone upload a photo of the best loacation to place the heat sensor in the motor?

Thank you
Rotem

+1 please. I'd like to know this as well!

 

[LightningRods]

Can someone upload a photo of the best loacation to place the heat sensor in the motor?

The red dot shows where I'm planning to drill the hole to locate the thermistor. Spinningmagnets can you post the link to your tutorial on thermistors?

I welcome any advice from the more knowledgeable on this subject.

 

[emaayan]

a hole? what about incoming water? (rain, puddles etc..) in my mac i used the exiting hole for phase and hall wires to extend a temp sensor wire.