LightningRods mid drive kit

[notger]

My small block motors are 78mm wide.

Ah, sorry than i picked up some wrong info. Ok that i do not care about some mmters.
I like filing and milling around on the motors like you see here.

just mounted for test purpose, i put silicone on it before i mount i permanently.

 

[notger]

found it

these are "technical drawings" a seller sent me a while ago
maybe a mistake or even a new kind of small block motor.

@Mike Does your small Block has 30mm magnet width?

 

[LightningRods]

I'd guess Motor 1 is a 650 watt and Motor 2 is a 500 watt. My motor has a 28mm magnet.

These motors are modular, meaning that the same aluminum case can be cut to different widths and more laminations can be added to make the rotor and stator wider. End cases, halls and wiring are the same. Motor shafts are a bunch of different lengths. Some have cooling fans and some don't.

You don't know what you've got until you've got it. The same vendor will sell you different width motors as the same watt rating. It's a bit of a mess.

 

[emaayan]

psssst nobody should tell honglida they make good motors by mistake or they might quickly discontinue their line for fear of hurting China reputation (you could get killed doing that ). :|

i just don't understand one thing, i thought L-R kit was built around original GNG motor, but from what ya'll said the L-R motor is wider then this motor, so it's not REALLY the original motor is it? how come it got fatter? and who said they won't send you an 83 mm model next time? isn't there a way to exactly specify the model number you need, it would seem unlikely they would do so to their larger customer and it's impossible to run a complex manufacturer line like this, without keeping tabs on exactly what you're making and for who.

 

[notger]

The problem with Model- Numbers is, that this Motor Manufacturers are like witches.

If you need a 36Volt450Watt Motor the witch one out of a 48Volt600Watt
And if this motor should be 54Volt1000Watt they witch it out of the 36Volt450Watt,

And for some reason they cannot hex another model number on the motor.

So whatever you want you can have it, but rather in their Imagination, that in reality.

The Guy from BHT once told me that the Motor we call BIG BLOCK is a 36Volt500Watt and not more

If I understood that right

but on this size can make only 500w maximum, who say more , he lie !

this motor is my OEM motor, have stock by 36v

 

[emaayan]

he's probably right...officially. i was told a similar thing from the guy who sold me the replacement MAC motors for ecospeed, he said he was surprised ecospeed said they use it for 48v and stated it was made for 36v, when i asked if he could make the same motor, the only spec he was really interested in was max RPM i wanted (he also asked if i could send him a spare ecospeed brackets if they decide to make an entire kit one day, but that's another story) . the person who sold me the BMC motor actually said the exact the same thing about my BMC motor i ordered, ("the bmc motor is only capable of up to 600 watts, if anyone like thesuperkids is saying otherwise they are lieing!") and i'm running it at 2000 watts, even if he said i should run at 1500 tops.

i believe solely relying on volts and watts as a spec is a mistake. nobody takes it seriously, i mean they probably know we all over drive their motors so why should they take seriously. how could you really test if a motor is up to 36v600 watts? what's the time frame (how long should it run)? what's the load? running temperature? etc..
for example we at our company are running stress test on our system, and we keep discover and re-define the test parameters ,and that's a system that stops baby theft in hospitals!

i'm pretty sure that in order to get exactly what you need from them (or the closest) you need specify a lot more then that, like give me a motor size x, with y number of windings, which are z thick, made with C type magnet at width W, etc.. etc.. i mean they won't open up a new line for you (not at the bulk l-R wants) , but they would be able to give the closest spec they have, and that's the one you should sink you hooks into. these are the specs you can examine without any interpretation.

 

[jdevo2004]

Generally these motors can be built for different voltages with the same power rating. These motors are all rated for about 3000 rpm. The different voltages refer the the way the motor is built. Obviously lower voltage motors need to turn faster per volt to reach 3000 rpm while higher voltage motors turn slower per volt to reach 3000 rmp. There is no doubt in my mind that Mikes small block motors are rated for 48 volts and 500 watts. They are clearly over engineered to handle the rigors of every day trike use over many years and therefore make suitable motors for over volting and over powering that ebike enthusiasts require. As long as temperature is regulated, they should last a very long time. It is a lot like overclocking a CPU. I have had my 2500k clocked at 4.4Ghz for 3 years now without a hiccup.

 

[LightningRods]

All of these motors do seem to be set up for 3000-3200 rpm @ 48V. I don't think we have any choice on windings on these motors. They're all meant to run this speed at this voltage. Yes we are certainly abusing the motor's durability buffer when we go beyond it's rating. 500 watts is just ridiculous though. 3000 watts may be abusing the '500 watt' motor but I don't think that 1500 watts is at all. Calling the 11 lb, 4 inch wide big block a 500 watt motor is idiotic. That's like idling a 454 Chevy and calling it a 80 horsepower engine.

Back to the motor case width issue. Because the ratings on the motors is very low the case width can vary quite a bit. The GNG motor with it's narrower magnets and case will almost certainly get hot before my wider small block. But it's still way more than a 500 watt motor so there's no harm in labeling it that way. Point is, you will not know what case width you're going to get based on a certain arbitrary power rating. Not even if it's the same vendor.

 

[PaulD]

I received a motor and pulleys from LR last week while I wait for my kit, so I decided to throw together some mounting ideas that I think would make for a sturdy, easy to adjust kit. I wanted to shorten the secondary chain quite a bit and make everything a lot more compact to make it stiffer and lighter. I probably won't have time to build this, and I don't really know if it will work, but I thought I'd post anyways. Now, I'll probably go back to waiting for my kit, unless LR or others want to try out some of the ideas here:
I'll post the SW2013 or STEP files if anyone wants to mess around with it.

 

[emaayan]

Is the belt pulley in shorter distance then it is now?

 

[notger]

oh my God, thats ingenious.

I Just finished my built, but this might be what i wanna do next.

 

[LightningRods]

Looking good Paul. The main thing you need to allow for is adjustment on the length of the upper mount equal to the swing adjustment on the motor. You may have a plan for that but I didn't see it.

If I did a clean sheet redraw on the layout of this mid drive I'd like to have the output of the motor reduction in a straight line with the final drive line. That way the forces acting on the BB would be equal and opposite.

The center to center distance on the pulleys needs to be a little over 4 1/2" inches. I scaled this drawing and the center to center looks correct.

Is Brammo thinking about getting into electric bikes as well as motorcycles, Paul?

 

[Nacent]

Not quite equal and opposite forces, because the pulley is much larger than the sprocket. The torque on the sprocket and pulley are equal and opposite but to have equal forces there diameter would have to be equivalent the reaction forces on the sprocket side will always be higher due to its much smaller diameter FsRs=FpRp where F is the force and R is the radius.

 

[PaulD]

Thanks guys. LR, I have about 1" of adjustment of the belt tension, and yes, the nominal C-C distance is 4.625" or so. You can see how it pivots in the RHS view. I can't get that pic to show up inline with the post for some reason, so you have to click it.
I don't think Brammo would ever do ebikes, it's just too far from the brand image that's been built. So, its just a hobby for me for now.

 

[LightningRods]

I don't think Brammo would ever do ebikes, it's just too far from the brand image that's been built. So, its just a hobby for me for now.

I'm glad to hear it. I met Craig Bramscher when I went down to Ashland to test drive the Atom. His resources are way beyond anything I can pull together. I forgot to make a killing on the dot coms.

 

[PaulD]

Cool. The Atoms and all the fancy manufacturing equipment that went along with them were before my time. I think an electric Atom would be a blast.

 

[Samd]

Love that right hand view Paul.

Whats the idea behind the two top screws in the RH view. Look like little eyes! ;p

 

[PaulD]

Thanks Sam.
Those are weld nuts like this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#90563a620/=ufqn2f
When screws are installed, they push against the yellow plate to tension the primary belt.

 

[sparkz]

Cool. The Atoms and all the fancy manufacturing equipment that went along with them were before my time. I think an electric Atom would be a blast.

http://wrightspeed.com/about/x1/

 

[LightningRods]

I think an electric Atom would be a blast.

It's been done. It was called the Wrightspeed X1. It was a blast but was never produced for sale.

http://wrightspeed.com/about/x1/

What I was saying about your swing adjuster for the secondary chain is that it will lift the upper hanger off of the frame. You need to have an upper hanger adjustable for length.

 

[Nacent]

My fix for the upper sheet twisting

 

[PaulD]

What I was saying about your swing adjuster for the secondary chain is that it will lift the upper hanger off of the frame. You need to have an upper hanger adjustable for length.

True, you would have to adjust the rotation at the BB, which would have to be tightened after adjusting chain tension which might be difficult. And, yes I forgot about the Wrightspeed..

 

[emaayan]

My fix for the upper sheet twisting

dude, what happened to you pulley?

 

[Nacent]

Aw just a little welding mishap i didn't have a puller to remove the pulley so i welded it with it on and my welding blanket shifted and the heat caused some cosmetic damage to the inside flange of the pulley. It's fine though didn't effect the pulley belt interface.

 

[emaayan]

you didn't have a what to remove the pulley?