LightningRods mid drive kit

LightningRods said:
This looks like a 3/32" chain trying to fit onto a 1/8" sprocket.
Click to expand...

did i order the wrong chain or sproket?

i had ordered the chain you recommended.. only thing i ordered differently was the narrow wide chain aftermarket..

where did i go wrong?

thanks
-steveo
 
The narrow/wide chainring seems to be made for a single run 1/8" chain. Most derailleur chains are 3/32" because of the close spacing of the rear sprockets. The chain is what you need. You need to exchange the front sprocket for an 8 speed compatible one.
 
I'm getting close to completion on my swingarm mounted direct drive for the Qulbix Q76R and Q140R.

Qulbix165-Swingarm1.jpg


Here's my build thread for the Qulbix frames. I'm also building a hot rodded bottom bracket drive with a bunch of new custom parts on it.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=82938&p=1228759#p1228759
 
LightningRods said:
The narrow/wide chainring seems to be made for a single run 1/8" chain. Most derailleur chains are 3/32" because of the close spacing of the rear sprockets. The chain is what you need. You need to exchange the front sprocket for an 8 speed compatible one.
Click to expand...

i checked the original chain ring i got with the kit from a member and he inc a 44 tooth bicycle chain ring.. wayyy to big... no wonder the bottom bracked was trying to twist ... i will probably shave every other tooth on the aluminum 32 tooth chain ring i got so it fits the 3/32 narrow chain.. or use a 32 tooth steel chain ring i have that already fits the 3/32 chain.. ill keep you all posted on what happens... overall a nice chain ring.. wish it was a narrow .. and not narrow wide me mistake

-steveo
 
update..

I ended up removing the bottom bracket from my 1500w lightening rods ebike to re-align to motor drive gears/chain & 3/32 chain ring for the rear 7 speed/gear changer...

after scratching my head for while.. i think i got it all lined up with the proper spacers on each ends of the bottom bracket.. and now the inner chaning for the 3/32 bicycle chain isn't rubbing the lightening rods motor mount.. and just giving enough room for the 32 tooth chain ring & chain clearance..

I will install the wippermann 3/32" bicycle chain and try running the bike again, and report back..

Is it possible to purchase this parts:
A couple of new sets of bolts for the bottom bracket/crank arm bolts?
Can i also purchase the proper spacers to use in between the motor chain ring & bicycle chain ring?
Can i also buy new bottom bracket screws? the ones i got in my kit have some serious monkey wrench removal time from the previous owner.

http://www.parktool.com/assets/img/repairhelp/bb231.jpg

thanks
-steveo
 
I only stock crank arm bolts as part of the bottom bracket assembly. Here is the best price I found on a quick search for them:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/sugino-8mm-hex-crank-arm-fixing-bolts-caps-pair?gclid=Cj0KEQjw7Ne_BRDRmP2ojKfzv98BEiQAPuqPyWwxYYFQMLwTrFijbyvcqL7Ok6qgdB8jRBsMvuUCE4saAoo48P8HAQ

I have lots of spacers for use for between the #219 driven and chainring. I cut them to the correct length for each application from a long rod of stock material. I'm willing to cut a set for you but you have to give me the exact length you want. I almost never use two chainrings any longer. Low range just isn't necessary with this much power.

I've never seen replacement end cups for sale for the ISIS BB. The one on the right side is part of the BB. If you want pretty notched flanges on your end cups you may have to get a replacement bottom bracket.

I can't believe the condition that parts come back in sometimes. It seems that the only tools some folks have are a pipe wrench, a blade screwdriver and a framing hammer.
 
LightningRods said:
I only stock crank arm bolts as part of the bottom bracket assembly. Here is the best price I found on a quick search for them:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/sugino-8mm-hex-crank-arm-fixing-bolts-caps-pair?gclid=Cj0KEQjw7Ne_BRDRmP2ojKfzv98BEiQAPuqPyWwxYYFQMLwTrFijbyvcqL7Ok6qgdB8jRBsMvuUCE4saAoo48P8HAQ

I have lots of spacers for use for between the #219 driven and chainring. I cut them to the correct length for each application from a long rod of stock material. I'm willing to cut a set for you but you have to give me the exact length you want. I almost never use two chainrings any longer. Low range just isn't necessary with this much power.

I've never seen replacement end cups for sale for the ISIS BB. The one on the right side is part of the BB. If you want pretty notched flanges on your end cups you may have to get a replacement bottom bracket.

I can't believe the condition that parts come back in sometimes. It seems that the only tools some folks have are a pipe wrench, a blade screwdriver and a framing hammer.
Click to expand...



i agree with what you said here :

"I can't believe the condition that parts come back in sometimes. It seems that the only tools some folks have are a pipe wrench, a blade screwdriver and a framing hammer"

that exactly what happend to my end cups for the isis bb.. i can still work them..but they are pretty messed up.

thanks the link on the bolts!

regarding the spacers i'll let you know

thanks for all your time, you are a great help! and i appreciate that, i hope others do too!

-steveo
 
steveo said:
thanks for all your time, you are a great help! and i appreciate that, i hope others do too!
Click to expand...

I'm dealing with people so it's 95% great and 5% not so great. The 5% are more trouble and strife than the 95%. Just like in the rest of the world.
 
Here's a new accessory that I've designed for my bottom bracket drives.

QulbixLowerBracket.jpg


The right upper bracket has had a mounting lug for a torque brace for some time. The torque brace turns the "L" shape of the chainwheel drive into a rigid triangle. I'm considering making a tube steel brace that has adjustable heim joints on the ends. Overkill for sure, but it will be bomb-proof.

This brace also has a place to mount a spring loaded DH roller similar to my secondary chain tensioner. On the top there will be a chain guide to keep the final drive chain from jumping the chainwheel. This has been on the wish list of full suspension bike riders for as long as there have been mid drives.

Initially these parts will be available on the drive that I'm building for the Qulbix Q76R. As soon as I'm happy with how the parts are working they'll be available as options on all of my chainwheel mid drives.
 
Not overkill, a torque brace spot and 2 for chain stabilizers for top and bottom are a must unless you on road.

Big thumbs up.

If only a torque brace similar to countering the JS - BB twist were possible between the BB - hub when there are pivots....... You are definitively on the right track shifting to the swing arm to avoid it.

Great watching progress.
 
Hey everyone, just looking for some questions about delay in the mid drive. I've heard someone mention that he was not able to wheelie the bike because of this delay so I am curious about it.

Could someone give me an idea about this delay when hitting throttle and motor turning? Why is it not instant like a direct drive hub motor?

Could this be perfected to be instant?

Why is there delay in the drive train?

Is there delay when the motor is attached to the swingarm instead of the bottom bracket?

Thanks.
 
There is no delay in the driveline. If they're having a lag it's electronic. Whatever is wrong with their mid drive's controller would affect a hub motor the same way.
 
There is a delay for primary and freewheel to come to engagement, then the same for secondary to BB freewheel to engage and finally for the bicycle chain and rear freewheel to engage and the pivot to take some. Even if it is less than a half second it is not as instanteous as a DD hub motor which has 3 less sets of pawls and chains to deliver the power to the ground. On the swing arm it would be as soon as the chain is tight.

If you want your drive line to last you wouldn't dump instantenous large amounts of power into it either. Not from a stand still nor once its moving.
 
John Bozi said:
There is a delay for primary and freewheel to come to engagement, then the same for secondary to BB freewheel to engage and finally for the bicycle chain and rear freewheel to engage and the pivot to take some. Even if it is less than a half second it is not as instanteous as a DD hub motor which has 3 less sets of pawls and chains to deliver the power to the ground. On the swing arm it would be as soon as the chain is tight.

If you want your drive line to last you wouldn't dump instantenous large amounts of power into it either. Not from a stand still nor once its moving.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response.

Is this the case with a gasoline dirt bike? Is there also a delay like this?
 
Sorry for using your thread like this Mike, but lots of people follow it so I figured it's a good spot and I want to help out your customers if possible.

Everyone,

If you can afford it, get on Ebay or Amazon and look at the green multistar packs from Turnigy. I don't know if I just got UBER lucky or what, but this is exactly what just happened for me. Last week I was perusing around looking for some large capacity LIPO packs for a Currie kick scooter I'm upgrading. I came across some 10,000 mah packs for a decent price ($80 a pack including shipping) on ebay. I contacted the seller and told them I wanted all 8 that they had for a negotiated price. Before we could complete the transaction one sold to someone else, but we negotiated it for $45 a pack including shipping. I know...huge price cut for all of them! Well then I asked the same seller about 16,000 or 20,000 mah packs and they had 10 16,000 packs arriving so we negotiated for all of them and I got all 10 of them for $74 each including shipping. Considering the price for the 10,000mah packs...not as good a deal, but still pretty reasonable. I was also talking to another seller on ebay about 10,000mah packs and last night we negotiated for 6 of the 15 packs he had for $40.79 each. Now I'm working another deal for 2 more packs at $30 each shipped. I don't know if the bottom is falling out of these packs or what, but damn...I just spent a load of money and got some really sweet deals on new LIPO packs. I received the original 7 packs Thursday night, and they are definitely new. They came in their individual boxes, inside a pink bubble wrap bag, with a small manual just like they come from an RC store. I know the 10C multistar packs are not the best packs on the planet, but the prices are really impressive so what's there to lose? I've been charging and load testing packs for the last 60 hours. So far all of them charge to 4.2 volts per cell and load testing them at 3C shows no signs of sagging and they all discharge to 3 volts per cell and right at or slightly over 10,000mah. I have a single pack that might have a weak cell. I'm load testing it for the second time right now to see if that's the case or not. When I say "weak cell" I just mean that the rest of the cells were still running at 3.3 to 3.5 volts and this one got down to 3 volts first. That's not really very "weak".

All I can say is make hay while the sun is shining because these prices wont last forever. I'm out of money or else I would still be buying packs!
 
The chainwheel drive Qulbix mid drive is coming together. I assembled the new chainwheel parts today. 60 tooth 10 gauge stainless #219 driven sprocket, 34 tooth 11 gauge stainless 1/2" chainwheel, White Industries UHD freewheel, M8 class 10.9 hardened bolts for chainring bolts. In addition to all of this motorcycle grade hardware this drive also has 1/3 the reduction of my typical street/trail mid drive. You can't pedal with the motor- the chainwheel is spinning at over 300 rpm. However torque stress is reduced by 2/3 and you can now use the high tooth count sprockets on the rear hub and still have good speed.

The upper bracket bolts directly to the Qulbix battery box. It's not twisting or flexing no matter the power level. The lower bracket is now supported by 1/2" round aluminum standoffs and full width M6 10.9 bolts. There will be a spring loaded DH guide wheel/tensioner attached to the bottom rear of the aluminum guide plate and a urethane lined fence guide on the top.

QulbixChainwheel.jpg
 
off the shelf bicycle component probably, but I see no holes for anything else.

The standard in Mike's LR kit world is I guess something like 219 80t (off the top of my head) and it has specific holes, at the diameter.

anyhoo a few holes to drill are no biggy...
 
spinningmagnets said:
Looks like the standard bolt pattern, so I'm sure the off-the-shelf chain guard that he carries will fit....
Click to expand...

Spinningmagnets- The diameter of this new 60T driven sprocket is smaller than the 75T pants ring that I have been using. So the old one won't work. The good news is that because this sprocket is one piece it sits back enough that I can fit a smaller diameter pants ring under the crank arm. With the old 64T kart sprocket the sprocket sat on top of an adapter plate which offset it towards the crank arm. There wasn't room for a pants ring. Now there is so I'll make one.

The chainwheel drives will continue to ship with open chain guards. I'm working on fully enclosed cases for both the primary and secondary chain as an option. Some of these guys really like to get dirty!
 
I have followed the advice of everyone here and it has improved (going to the largest possible sprockets all the way through out the kit)

18t to 64t on primary, 18t on jackshaft to 65t with white industries and 40t bicycle sprocket on bb with single speed chain to rear 40t.

I also now run 4 different chain controllers. A bolt with plastic wheel on top of bb and blackspire bottom, a bottom MC tensioner custom carved and extended and a plastic protrusion at the top of the rear to make it impossible to dislodge.

This is the sound. This is it running at the most my 12 fet can deliver. Somewhere between 3.5-3.9kw I guess..... I've had a couple of bumpy rides with no fail touch wood.

[youtube]8ZJC3NOp-rA[/youtube]
 
Along with designing and building the two Qulbix drives I've been finishing up this mid bike drive for the Madsen cargo bike. It's a 2000 watt Small Block with PAS and torque sensing throttle.

IMG_5454.jpg


IMG_5458.jpg


IMG_5460.jpg


The Beam TS reads the tension on the front, human powered run of chain. A flexible arm moves a magnet relative to a hall sensor and generates a throttle signal. The PAS ring evens out the pulses of the torque sensor.

IMG_5462.jpg


Front view of the BeamTS box and it's roller chain follower.

IMG_5464.jpg


Top view of the BeamTS and PAS.

IMG_5468.jpg
 
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