LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

[Miles]

Edit : looked trough emails, Christian actually asked to buy more frames, last email from him on Aug 6

They made dozen a frames (not LMX) for our locals.

About the non-lmx frames, can you please send me some pictures or link? thanks!

Just in case there's any confusion about Adam's request

 

[DasDouble]

Edit : looked trough emails, Christian actually asked to buy more frames, last email from him on Aug 6

They made dozen a frames (not LMX) for our locals.

About the non-lmx frames, can you please send me some pictures or link? thanks!

Just in case there's any confusion about Adam's request

What do you want to tell us? I dont understand

 

[Jazzman56]

https://www.facebook.com/enolix/

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Yes, I need to send them an email to check if they still have the intention of buying more frames. In any case, it's not very fair to them to do all that behind our back. Georg Dendorfer is selling our frames in Austria and we are perfectly fine with that because we discussed it.

Either they planned a business model on buying our frames without discusing any details with us (which is Imo a bit stupid), either they plan to copy production of our concept, then we will take some action against that.

Miles to make it clear, e-nolix have only one lmx frame that I sold them.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Platz 3: e-nolix
Abseits von Tesla umweht Elektromobilität vor allem ein Hauch von Effizienz, Energiebewusstsein und Funktionalität. Der Spaßfaktor spielte bislang keine entscheidende Rolle. Das will e-nolix ändern: Mit einer Mischung aus Montain Bike und Geländemaschine wollen die beiden Köpfe hinter dem Projekt nicht nur Hirn, sondern auch Herz seiner Zielgruppe erfreuen. Das Elektro-Bike hebt sich mit seiner Kombination aus Leichtigkeit und Leistung deutlich von den übrigen Elektro-Motorrädern ab. Diese sind entweder größer, schwerer und deutlich teurer oder können in Sachen Dynamik und Power nicht mithalten. Mit seinen 9 KW schafft das Zweirad eine Geschwindigkeit von bis zu 70 km/h.

Immer ein gutes Zeichen eines Start-Ups: Authentizität. Und genau diese bringen die beiden Sport-Fans und Motorrad-Enthusiasten Christian und Maximilian sehr gut rüber. Auf der Website können sich Interessierte für eine Probefahrt anmelden. Das Projekt zielt auf eine Gruppe, die bislang von den Herstellern von Elektro-Vehikeln nicht berücksichtigt wurde: die Fun-Fraktion. Ein gutes Beispiel dafür, dass Elektro-Antrieb nicht langweilig sein muss. Einziger Wermutstropfen aus meiner Sicht: ein normaler Führerschein Klasse 3 reicht nicht aus, um mit dem Elektro-Bike loszubrettern. Aber vielleicht bringt e-nolix ja eine Maschine auf den Markt, die kompatibel mit dem Autoführerschein ist.

how funny

 

[sn0wchyld]

Yes, I need to send them an email to check if they still have the intention of buying more frames. In any case, it's not very fair to them to do all that behind our back. Georg Dendorfer is selling our frames in Austria and we are perfectly fine with that because we discussed it.

Either they planned a business model on buying our frames without discusing any details with us (which is Imo a bit stupid), either they plan to copy production of our concept, then we will take some action against that.

Miles to make it clear, e-nolix have only one lmx frame that I sold them.

pretty sad. a few FB comments pointing out their bad behavior might make them come to their senses. I'm happy to help with that... :wink:
they do however only seem to have pictures of a single bike, so your original theory might be right... though still very weird.

 

[DasDouble]

If I would be you Adam, I would call my lawyer just right now. Yeah you are fine with them. Ok. But these guys are cheater. If I look at their website it looks like they have developed the frame and everythinng. But this is just not fuc*ing true. And this is already enough to smash them on the ground by dish. They already got prices on such "startup-nights". Ridiculous! If they will really buy your frames in future, then it is ok - but they also have to say it imo. But they haven´t even said anything about this that the frames are not even from them. Im a german. And when I talk about germans, I always thought that we are the ones who are developing and producing. But in this case I think we are not. Call us chinese guys in the future who are copying like these retards.... And this in germany.. Unbelievable...

 

[scorpionice]

And be very careful because on what I read about the founders, they often build a company and tend to sell them after building them. They might take advantage of you maybe because they're thinking you're young and you haven't done copy writing your work of art. As much as we (fans) can smash them in FB, you might take a look at it. Cheers

 

[madin88]

only available in germany.. one of the best startup at this event.. Such assholes!
i have done some posting on theire fb site. they will delete them all for sure, but some visitors will see and read them before so its useful to do that.

 

[r3volved]

These forums can trace the LMX development life cycle all the way back to inception of the P1 several years ago. Design and development in the public domain provides you with some Industrial Design rights and though it does not provide you with direct copyright or trademarks, it should be enough to stop anyone else from filing for IP rights on it.

lmxbikes.com also has a site history index-of-change dating back to Oct 29, 2014, 3:03 AM
http://www.lmxbikes.com/system/app/pages/recentChanges?offset=25

Hoping this is all just a misunderstanding that got blown out of proportion

 

[DasDouble]

Platz 3: e-nolix
Abseits von Tesla umweht Elektromobilität vor allem ein Hauch von Effizienz, Energiebewusstsein und Funktionalität. Der Spaßfaktor spielte bislang keine entscheidende Rolle. Das will e-nolix ändern: Mit einer Mischung aus Montain Bike und Geländemaschine wollen die beiden Köpfe hinter dem Projekt nicht nur Hirn, sondern auch Herz seiner Zielgruppe erfreuen. Das Elektro-Bike hebt sich mit seiner Kombination aus Leichtigkeit und Leistung deutlich von den übrigen Elektro-Motorrädern ab. Diese sind entweder größer, schwerer und deutlich teurer oder können in Sachen Dynamik und Power nicht mithalten. Mit seinen 9 KW schafft das Zweirad eine Geschwindigkeit von bis zu 70 km/h.

Immer ein gutes Zeichen eines Start-Ups: Authentizität. Und genau diese bringen die beiden Sport-Fans und Motorrad-Enthusiasten Christian und Maximilian sehr gut rüber. Auf der Website können sich Interessierte für eine Probefahrt anmelden. Das Projekt zielt auf eine Gruppe, die bislang von den Herstellern von Elektro-Vehikeln nicht berücksichtigt wurde: die Fun-Fraktion. Ein gutes Beispiel dafür, dass Elektro-Antrieb nicht langweilig sein muss. Einziger Wermutstropfen aus meiner Sicht: ein normaler Führerschein Klasse 3 reicht nicht aus, um mit dem Elektro-Bike loszubrettern. Aber vielleicht bringt e-nolix ja eine Maschine auf den Markt, die kompatibel mit dem Autoführerschein ist.

how funny

If I had no bycicle accident two days ago and when my finger wouldnt be smashed because of this, I would write an email to this guy who wrote this article and would tell him the trueth about this idiots in german but writing with just the left hand as someone who uses the right hand the most is really hard...^^

 

[crossbreak]

[...]No imagination at all and the one guy claims to be an engineer.[...]

I can't see where he claims to be an engineer? For me this looks more like tapping funds. If I was you, I would not sell them a single frame but complain about business fraud. there must be a law they violated

 

[--freeride--]

The Answer on Martins Comment on there Facebook page: "E-Nolix This prototype, which is not for sale, contains several components including a LMX frame from France. Not trying to make false claims here or hide anything. We are being very open with where the components come from and will clarify this on our social media pages and website. Stay put for the second prototype which will be very different from this one. Thanks for your comment"

Those Guys are from Munich, right where I live. They are using the LMX Frame for rasing funds to develop an Aluminium lightweight Version...

Only hot air for now... but nowhere is mentioned where the frame comes from. Thats not cool. Also those power values seam to be a little to high for a bigblock...

 

[crossbreak]

maybe they wanna use something like an RV160. They also state a "Secondary Drive Train: Chain". Maybe they wanna use an Inrunner like the TP-100 and two reduction stages.
"Motor Type: Contiuous Current Motor" Sounds like Brushed DC or like a lack of knowledge. They cant even spell Continuous right

 

[made_in_the_alps_legacy]

Sometimes ES seems to be about picking up "open source" ideas and making them "commercial" or concurential

 

[macribs]

Sometimes ES seems to be about picking up "open source" ideas and making them "commercial" or concurential

Well that is one down side of sharing ideas, or even showing off a ready product. If you got something that stands out some people will always try to monetize on someone else's work. We see the same in the IT, and from what we've seen here on ES things will get taken further. There are several clever people that see an idea and are ready improve, or change things around to better fit their ideal product. But at least those people can stand behind their final product and say that they did their own work, they put in the hours and the engineering and they made something different. Like we have seen on the various frames, etc. But plain rip offs like this we don't see very often. Luckily.

The way they presented "their" bike and product was plain stealing. Nowhere did they mention the original builder, in fact they went as far as possible to try to take full credit for the design, calling it "their" prototype or whatever wording they did use. Just so that people should think they had put much work and manhours into the design and engineering of the frame and concept. I would not bring those guys a single dollar - and I hope others will turn their back to the thieving mofo's.

Stealing is not OK.

 

[madin88]

The way they presented "their" bike and product was plain stealing. Nowhere did they mention the original builder, in fact they went as far as possible to try to take full credit for the design, calling it "their" prototype or whatever wording they did use. Just so that people should think they had put much work and manhours into the design and engineering of the frame and concept. I would not bring those guys a single dollar - and I hope others will turn their back to the thieving mofo's.

Stealing is not OK.

exactly. i cannot see anything they have developed by themselves. maybe they have choosen other components like the rim and tires or handlebar and other small things, but the basic concept is the same.
using the lmx frame to develop theire own frame and do not make mention of the LMX developer is not the nice way..

 

[Promodbike]

Stealing is not OK and its definitly not funny !!

its a shame what these guys are doing ! Its a good idea to post on FB and everywhere.

I am from Germany, too. These cheating, lying copycats are very ugly ! For all of us in Germany.

Keep up your good work, Adam.

 

[macribs]

Stealing is not OK and its definitly not funny !!

its a shame what these guys are doing ! Its a good idea to post on FB and everywhere.

I am from Germany, too. These cheating, lying copycats are very ugly ! For all of us in Germany.

Keep up your good work, Adam.

I would say on the contrary, do not post on FB or anywhere else. Why? Because by doing so we give those thieving mofo's free publicity and when you link somewhere other will eventually follow, either because of your posts of links get picked up by search engines. Try to avoid links to those thieving bastards. Try to avoid any publicity at all to them and their monkey business.

 

[DasDouble]

Ouhh man... Another copycat now with the Vector frame... https://www.facebook.com/ECOROCKET-1466490313666482/timeline/?_fb_noscript=1
-.-

 

[madin88]

Ouhh man... Another copycat now with the Vector frame... https://www.facebook.com/ECOROCKET-1466490313666482/timeline/?_fb_noscript=1
-.-

Vector is not the manufacturer of the frame. FWIK it is made in ukrain and was developed by Chobotar. The original name of the frame is e-kross or EVEL frame.
http://evel.ua/catalog/aksessuari/rami/rama-electric-enduro/
ecorocket and other companies who use the e-kross frame is similar to what vector does and if you ask me this is nothing the manufactuer would not want.
IMO thats a different thing as here happens to LMX..

thats the qulbix frame with different logo:
http://www.greenroad.at/shop/Elduro-Bikes

 

[DasDouble]

Ouhh man... Another copycat now with the Vector frame... https://www.facebook.com/ECOROCKET-1466490313666482/timeline/?_fb_noscript=1
-.-

Vector is not the manufacturer of the frame. FWIK it is made in ukrain and was developed by Chobotar. The original name of the frame is e-kross or EVEL frame.
http://evel.ua/catalog/aksessuari/rami/rama-electric-enduro/
ecorocket and other companies who use the e-kross frame is similar to what vector does and if you ask me this is nothing the manufactuer would not want.
IMO thats a different thing as here happens to LMX..

thats the qulbix frame with different logo:
http://www.greenroad.at/shop/Elduro-Bikes

Ok thanks for answering.

 

[Artur]

Well look what happened to us? Chinese made copy of our frame.. All we can do Is to offer better quality, under lower price! I can advise to do the same for Adam! This is exactly what we are doing! We are modifying our frame now a bit.. And preparing few more frames to offer. F**k Chinese thefts, and all other who do nothing but stealing other hard developing process.

 

[madin88]

Well look what happened to us? Chinese made copy of our frame.. All we can do Is to offer better quality, under lower price! I can advise to do the same for Adam!

it will be not easy to make better quality under lower price. keep in mind the working time required to make a product is much cheaper in china as here in europe or other countries.
IMO it would be a good deal better to offer better quality and more features for a bit higher price as the competitor (or chinese copy in your case). if you use better materials for more stability and/or lower weight, lower tolerances for more accuracy of fit etc etc, you can ask for more money.
i'm quite sure most people would accept the higher price in trade off the better product

 

[Artur]

Well look what happened to us? Chinese made copy of our frame.. All we can do Is to offer better quality, under lower price! I can advise to do the same for Adam!

it will be not easy to make better quality under lower price. keep in mind the working time required to make a product is much cheaper in china as here in europe or other countries.
IMO it would be a good deal better to offer better quality and more features for a bit higher price as the competitor (or chinese copy in your case). if you use better materials for more stability and/or lower weight, lower tolerances for more accuracy of fit etc etc, you can ask for more money.
i'm quite sure most people would accept the higher price in trade off the better product

First of all I don't believe in light weight frames for hub motors.. It doesn't matter if frame weight 8 or 12 kilo if only your battery is 15kg, and motor is 13 kg, and 80 kg rider on top...... So I prefer stronger frame with 1-2 kg in addition in a places where it will make a difference..

For the second, the side covers of chinese clone are made of cheap plastic, that will brake after 1st fall (hope nobody get hurt with sharp piece of it), so we can stop here already.. for the second their frame has narrower metal carcass, that makes it easier to bend by diagonal, and twisting.. plus top and bottom material are very easy to scratch that is not good if you actually going to ride this bike in forest or mountains.. I can continue...

but the thing is many customers dont know about those small but important differences, so they look only on a price. We will be able to offer a better price by increasing number of produces frames, and also because we are manufacturers, not like 1-2 dealers that earn money on you if you buy chinese items, so soon our bikes will be under lower price the chinese and I believe this will make them to stop producing replica of Vector.