Looks like lots of new toys coming to Solar bbq
- Thread starter Geebee
- Start date
solarbbq2003
10 kW
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 500
cmon allen,
you went on the new inventors program in australia claiming you invented the system ( that is was your invention!!) when you were using cyclone freewheel on the bike you had on the tv program ( an already commercial system ) and epac had already gone public with its design.. you've got no intellectual property rights on it!!! No right to claim it as a unique design of your own at all.
You might have got a design registration on it but not a true patent as a novel and new idea.
with united motor its a cheap diy kit no denying it, about the cheapest kit you can put together and epac have been using that motor before you had gone public.
I approached you about selling your kit via my website because I thought it was a good system, but you were trying to tell me it was under 200watts peak power, I said I would have to be honest on my website and say what the peak power actually is....not hard to figure out.........
Power = volts * amps * efficiency
Power = 36 * 30 * 0.75 = 810watts ( on 36volt )
Power = 24 * 30 * 0.75 = 540watts ( on 24 volt)
the 200watt limit is a silly limit anyway that I totally disagree with, it was the part where you told me to 'go jump' ( or something similar ) cause I wouldn't listen to your crap about the peak power that was pretty damn insulting.
Anyway sorry to air my grievances on a public forum your kit is a good kit, there are the problems of rapid gear and chain wear and noise, as with the cyclone kit but a good system non the less except for maintanence/replacement of parts related to the rapid wear
I must admit having the motor running at efficient rpm does seem to make quite a difference to watthrs used, more than I had expected. So you can get very good watt hrs /km even though its a brushed geared motor.
I"ve noticed the cyclone style motors are now being widely produced in china, probably not too hard to get a brushless geared motor to do the job and increase efficiency a bit.
you went on the new inventors program in australia claiming you invented the system ( that is was your invention!!) when you were using cyclone freewheel on the bike you had on the tv program ( an already commercial system ) and epac had already gone public with its design.. you've got no intellectual property rights on it!!! No right to claim it as a unique design of your own at all.
You might have got a design registration on it but not a true patent as a novel and new idea.
with united motor its a cheap diy kit no denying it, about the cheapest kit you can put together and epac have been using that motor before you had gone public.
I approached you about selling your kit via my website because I thought it was a good system, but you were trying to tell me it was under 200watts peak power, I said I would have to be honest on my website and say what the peak power actually is....not hard to figure out.........
Power = volts * amps * efficiency
Power = 36 * 30 * 0.75 = 810watts ( on 36volt )
Power = 24 * 30 * 0.75 = 540watts ( on 24 volt)
the 200watt limit is a silly limit anyway that I totally disagree with, it was the part where you told me to 'go jump' ( or something similar ) cause I wouldn't listen to your crap about the peak power that was pretty damn insulting.
Anyway sorry to air my grievances on a public forum your kit is a good kit, there are the problems of rapid gear and chain wear and noise, as with the cyclone kit but a good system non the less except for maintanence/replacement of parts related to the rapid wear
I must admit having the motor running at efficient rpm does seem to make quite a difference to watthrs used, more than I had expected. So you can get very good watt hrs /km even though its a brushed geared motor.
I"ve noticed the cyclone style motors are now being widely produced in china, probably not too hard to get a brushless geared motor to do the job and increase efficiency a bit.
solarbbq2003
10 kW
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 500
I guess theres different views on what is copying and what is progressing forwards, most things only progress on what others have done, thats reality.
Dont really appreciate comments like
"Ask the SBBQs of this world how much they spend evolving/improving products. "
most of what I earn in fact, and most of my waking hours are spent testing motors/batteries/controllers etc, you've got one kit you sell, i've got quite a few different kits, you can imagine how much effort has gone into it puting them all together, alot of effort indeed, probably a good 5 years or more continuous effort, I started off building my own electric bikes back in about late 1980's before the chinese had got into it in a serious way, using tape drive motors and whatever else I could find ( windscreen wiper motors, car fan motors, car starter motors etc etc)
I couldn't afford to buy an ebike when they began to appear, but I managed to get a hub motor out from china ( one of the first ones made in large numbers in china, the P3 motor on website), and my aim was and is to try and make affordable kits available, so backyarders wouldn't have to go through the headaches I had gone through building my own ebikes using whatever motors I could find.
anyway back to work
Dont really appreciate comments like
"Ask the SBBQs of this world how much they spend evolving/improving products. "
most of what I earn in fact, and most of my waking hours are spent testing motors/batteries/controllers etc, you've got one kit you sell, i've got quite a few different kits, you can imagine how much effort has gone into it puting them all together, alot of effort indeed, probably a good 5 years or more continuous effort, I started off building my own electric bikes back in about late 1980's before the chinese had got into it in a serious way, using tape drive motors and whatever else I could find ( windscreen wiper motors, car fan motors, car starter motors etc etc)
I couldn't afford to buy an ebike when they began to appear, but I managed to get a hub motor out from china ( one of the first ones made in large numbers in china, the P3 motor on website), and my aim was and is to try and make affordable kits available, so backyarders wouldn't have to go through the headaches I had gone through building my own ebikes using whatever motors I could find.
anyway back to work
solarbbq2003
10 kW
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 500
oh dear allen,
just read you bagging of epac guy as a 'dole bludger', I met him recently and when he saw you on the new inventors he couldn't believe it, that you were claiming that sytem as your own ( he knew nothing about your system! I suspect the truth is the other way around...........the problem with bagging people on public forums is 'its public'........epac was an innovator in the true spirit of innovating, he put a huge effort into that, and he had not even heard about you until you appeared on tv, too his shock with the same system he had already put on his website, and there was alot of talk about it on power assist forum ( the epac system that is ).
I think its a shame epac has had ( is having ) such a struggle to get his kit commercialised, but he's still chipping away, my hat goes off to him.
just read you bagging of epac guy as a 'dole bludger', I met him recently and when he saw you on the new inventors he couldn't believe it, that you were claiming that sytem as your own ( he knew nothing about your system! I suspect the truth is the other way around...........the problem with bagging people on public forums is 'its public'........epac was an innovator in the true spirit of innovating, he put a huge effort into that, and he had not even heard about you until you appeared on tv, too his shock with the same system he had already put on his website, and there was alot of talk about it on power assist forum ( the epac system that is ).
I think its a shame epac has had ( is having ) such a struggle to get his kit commercialised, but he's still chipping away, my hat goes off to him.
A
Anonymous
Guest
My visit to the IP lawyer at the start of this process had me walk away with good advice that other on this Forum should consider. He stated that IP Protection will only protect you from ethically people, "...unless you have deep pockets". His advice was to protect your design with Innovation, Quality and Service.
I did have a Provisional Patent in place when I walked into his office. After the visit I let it lapse.
Now, it was YOU I equated to the dole bludger. I took my hat of to EPAC and other Innovators.
I never made the claim of being the inventor of the total system on the New Inventors. It is on record that they were advised of Cyclone and EPAC and I assure you their researchers checked it all. The claim is for INNOVATION of the front freewheeling combination. I do not like the word Inventor, I feel there are very few inventions now days. Not up to me to call it the "New Innovators".
My grievance with you is NOT that you do a bit of chatting on alibaba, visit China and then buy off the self prodcuts. Nor does it relate to your selling these components.
It lies with you posting detailed pics of how to reproduce someone elses work.
With regard to "quality" of system. I did it totally self funded and so did not have the ability to have some components designed. V2 is different, having said that is still uses some off the shelf components.
The V1 kit provide value and a better way of doing it. Sales and feedback speaks for itself.
Finally, I suppose I can look forward to pics of how to copy the V2 appearing on your site soon?
I did have a Provisional Patent in place when I walked into his office. After the visit I let it lapse.
Now, it was YOU I equated to the dole bludger. I took my hat of to EPAC and other Innovators.
I never made the claim of being the inventor of the total system on the New Inventors. It is on record that they were advised of Cyclone and EPAC and I assure you their researchers checked it all. The claim is for INNOVATION of the front freewheeling combination. I do not like the word Inventor, I feel there are very few inventions now days. Not up to me to call it the "New Innovators".
My grievance with you is NOT that you do a bit of chatting on alibaba, visit China and then buy off the self prodcuts. Nor does it relate to your selling these components.
It lies with you posting detailed pics of how to reproduce someone elses work.
With regard to "quality" of system. I did it totally self funded and so did not have the ability to have some components designed. V2 is different, having said that is still uses some off the shelf components.
The V1 kit provide value and a better way of doing it. Sales and feedback speaks for itself.
Finally, I suppose I can look forward to pics of how to copy the V2 appearing on your site soon?
Ypedal
100 TW
Wrong aproach woody.. i suggest you build as many as you can afford.. sell them.. Heck i'd likely buy a few ! and not worry about copies or how-to's..
Look at Rolex, you can buy the real thing.. or a 5 $ copy... wich would you rather have on your wrist if you can afford either one?
Just make a better mouse trap and it will win in the end.. if people copy it it only means more people become aware of them existing.. the market is out there and unless you are making 1000's of units with dealers in each country etc.... you have nothing to loose and everything to gain from your system being out there.
I get told all the time " Hey .. you should patent that ! "... but i personally fabricated very little on my bike.. i just put the pieces together. ( and made a 10 page thread about it ! lol )
Look at Rolex, you can buy the real thing.. or a 5 $ copy... wich would you rather have on your wrist if you can afford either one?
Just make a better mouse trap and it will win in the end.. if people copy it it only means more people become aware of them existing.. the market is out there and unless you are making 1000's of units with dealers in each country etc.... you have nothing to loose and everything to gain from your system being out there.
I get told all the time " Hey .. you should patent that ! "... but i personally fabricated very little on my bike.. i just put the pieces together. ( and made a 10 page thread about it ! lol )
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hi YPedal
Thanks for good advice. I know what you say is right. But at the end of the day when you are starting out fakes impact on sales and can give an impression that is original quality.
But point taken and will heed.
thanks
Thanks for good advice. I know what you say is right. But at the end of the day when you are starting out fakes impact on sales and can give an impression that is original quality.
But point taken and will heed.
thanks
solarbbq2003
10 kW
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 500
thats just insulting calling me a dole bludger!!
not needed ( for those who dont know what it is , its someone who takes handouts of money from government instead of working for a living).
So on one hand your saying your an innovator and on the other hand your saying you told the 'new inventors' program that you told them your 'invention' was a copy of epac and cyclone systems??
Pics will appear of your new system on this forum or other forums, backyard tinkerers are free to copy, theres no law against it, unless you copy and then sell an item then there is an issue.
Just dont understand what all these insults are about?? So it was ok for you to copy elation/cyclone but not ok for me to sell parts for people to build their own?? anyway non of this is productive chatter
not needed ( for those who dont know what it is , its someone who takes handouts of money from government instead of working for a living).
So on one hand your saying your an innovator and on the other hand your saying you told the 'new inventors' program that you told them your 'invention' was a copy of epac and cyclone systems??
Pics will appear of your new system on this forum or other forums, backyard tinkerers are free to copy, theres no law against it, unless you copy and then sell an item then there is an issue.
Just dont understand what all these insults are about?? So it was ok for you to copy elation/cyclone but not ok for me to sell parts for people to build their own?? anyway non of this is productive chatter
solarbbq2003
10 kW
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 500
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikeexp/bexp.htm
first project on that page,
is that innovative enough my friend allen
first project on that page,
is that innovative enough my friend allen
A
Anonymous
Guest
I equated you do doles bludger by trying to porfit from other hard work. You put pics of other peopls work up and then offer to sell bits to copy.
I applaud the peopl on here. As I said it is like freeware, all on here is open to others yes touse freely, including my efforts. But when someone choosse to abuse that freeware offer buy trying to porfit from it commercially then that is my issue.
I agree, end of prodcutive comments
I applaud the peopl on here. As I said it is like freeware, all on here is open to others yes touse freely, including my efforts. But when someone choosse to abuse that freeware offer buy trying to porfit from it commercially then that is my issue.
I agree, end of prodcutive comments
xyster
10 MW
What's a dole bludger? Sounds like a murderer of pineapples...
On those rare occasions I eat cereal for breakfast, I question if I'm not a cereal killer. Die Fruit Loop, die! *Chomp Chomp Crunch Crunch Slurrrrp*
On those rare occasions I eat cereal for breakfast, I question if I'm not a cereal killer. Die Fruit Loop, die! *Chomp Chomp Crunch Crunch Slurrrrp*
Geebee
1 kW
Dole bludger= Someone that lives of unemployment benefits and makes no attempt to get a job.
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