Loss of power on any type of incline

[beoutside]

system
DIY Mundo Yuba Cargo
BMC V3 1000W rear hub
48 V Battery 15 ah
12 fet lyen controller.... not sure on the amps
CA V3 and throttle and three setting switch from you guys as well.
I do not run anything else


I can not figure out why I am getting absolutely no power on hills, luckily I pretty much use this beast to run errands with the kids on a flat 10 mile round trip bike path.
I have the 3 setting switch set to limit the speed 1 at 15 mph, 2 at 25 mph, 3 at 33mph.
I messed with the amps and wattage for each setting to eliminate throttle cutting in and out since I pedal 100 percent of the time .
any tips appreciated ! I have been through and used the suggestions to set the throttle input and output min and max..... but the throttle always seemed smooth one I increased the power parameters for each speed setting.
Donny


I have gone through the manual posted on endless sphere but didn't see or understand anything on setting up the power perimeters for my 3 setting switch. As far as climbing power issues.... I just do not want to mess around with the Amp and Wattage since my experience is more to with mechanics and not electrical.... but I am learning slowly and really appreciated the posted CA V3 manual on walking me through the set up so far.
Not sure that's the issue anyways, any tips appreciated. I guess since this hub has a "clutch" that might be something to check as well.
Donny

 

[beoutside]

Also I set of of the parameters at the ceiling limit for Amps and Watts just to see if it mattered and it didn't .
I have the presets for the three speed switch set for speed limitations and I don't see other obvious settings that would effect it climbing ..... I guess I can disconnect the CA to see if that is the issue.... should have tried that before !
Donny

 

[teklektik]

Gee, another thread about the same CA setup issue?

Is this the same Mundo with PAS as in the other thread?
It sounded like your resolution to that setup issue was incorrect so if this is the same bike, you are building on a faulty configuration.

With a new controller with unknown configuration and a CA with possibly improper settings, it's hard to know what is going on. I would recommend starting by disconnecting the CA, plugging the throttle into the controller and climbing the hill so you are certain the bike climbs according to your expectations before you throw the CA into the mix.

If that doesn't work out, reprogram the controller until you get the performance you need or at least until the current limits and realistic expectations are in hand.

Next, hook up the CA, record your throttle voltage parameters and shunt setup and restore the CA defaults by reflashing - then install *only* the saved settings. Alternatively, use the Software Setup utility to configure the saved settings *only* onto a 'new' setup file and download it. At that point you will know what the bike can do and the CA will be mostly default. Do not make other settings.

Pull the settings using the utility, save to a file, and post it up here and we can go from there.

EDIT - okay you posted while I was typing - yes - disconnecting the CA is the proper plan...

 

[beoutside]

Different Yuba ..... but I was the one with the blown controller from Jan
PS also thanks for the info on replacing the bearings ...... I read somewhere on this forum I'm sure....
I have a little play in the hub and as a mechanic guy that's right up my alley.
I also found some info on testing the clutch and this bike has always had this issue. The hub was a used purchase when I built up the wheel and I feel it has always had a little play in it as well.
May be a clutch / bearing day next weekend but I will test without the CA plugged into the system first.
Appreciate the time as always . I'll be reading up on the basics for Amps,Watts, and volts in regards to these builds.
The unoffical user guide has been a great help, Thanks ,
Donny

 

[beoutside]

I took CA out of the mix and it did not make a difference. I have seen a youtube video posted by ebikesssf showing some methods to check the clutch so I will. On there site they also mention to set the CA limits at 27 A and 1300Watts or you will damage the motor. Good to know.
Thanks for the other tips!

 

[amberwolf]

If it has the same problem without the CA attached, then you should edit the title of the first post in this thread to reflect the actual present problem, so people looking at thread titles to help people can see yours and respond.


If power cuts out completely on the hills, that usually means the battery is under too much load and voltage on one or more cells is dropping below the LVC, and the BMS is shutting off to protect it.

 

[beoutside]

Thanks , never even thought of the battery

If it has the same problem without the CA attached, then you should edit the title of the first post in this thread to reflect the actual present problem, so people looking at thread titles to help people can see yours and respond.


If power cuts out completely on the hills, that usually means the battery is under too much load and voltage on one or more cells is dropping below the LVC, and the BMS is shutting off to protect it.

 

[teklektik]

Okay - this looks like you have two kinds of issues - the power problem (which is unrelated to the CA) and some CA behavior problems with surging, etc in certain modes.

First matter is the power issue.
I think you should hook up the CA again as described above so you have access to the monitoring capabilities, but leave everything but the throttle basic throttle setup in PassThru mode. This will give you the max Amps and Watts, etc. so the CA should not interfere.

Have a run at your hill and note the current draw. Post back with that and some specification dope on your battery and we can see if things are performing at spec or are being overtaxed.

You mention a 3-position switch - it sounded like this was a CA switch not a controller switch - correct? There is a chance the controller is configured to need a jumper to get to full power without a switch attached. Pick up the rear wheel and go WOT - note the CA speed. This and the current draw on the hill should help determine the jumper thing.

Since the present settings in the controller cannot be read, you can't really just change one thing - you need to reconfigure the whole business. This is a place not to go as a 'first time experience' if it can be avoided, so let's just snoop the clues first. You might ping Lyen or your controller vendor about the 3-speed jumper configuration question and getting a copy of his default 12FET config file so you have a baseline config to modify.

 

[beoutside]

Will do , appreciate the advice . Yes it's a three way switch running to CA set to limit speed at 15 mph, 25 mph, 35mph.
It did feel when I was testing the system through just Edwards controller without the CA that is was not running as well, not as smooth or fast. I'll will PM him on the settings. Thanks
Donny

 

[beoutside]

Calibike battery
Yuba Mundo cargo bike
BMC V3 rear hub
CA V3 controller , three way switch third position set to max amps,speed,ect
Lyen 12 FET controller


Trying to set some time aside to look at this again. Thanks for all the responses.

Without any pedaling
On a flat road/ bike path, as I increase the throttle the amps climb to 10 to 12 A, slowly, watts climb up to 500-600W.
Even a strong wind will drop the amps and watts, any incline will also do this as well , a steep hill will slow the bike to crawl 4-5 A , 200 W, with what I would describe as hub whine ..... I do not use this bike on hills but I do not think this is normal.... I have always pedaled with the electric assist so I probably was unaware of this unless 20 mph winds and 4 percent grade..... then I just pedaled harder There is a steep hill near our house so I was just testing it out when I noticed this " issue" probably a 15 to 20 percent grade.

Below is the battery info from Calibike.
Edward from Lyen has confirmed the CA settings with my controller. I need to check these to make sure they are correct
I have looked through my CA settings from the manual and recommendations listed . As far as I can tell they are as recommended.
I would need someone to walk me through the entire set up to ensure this .





Battery Model 48V15T
Voltage (V) 48
Capacity: 15AH
Type: Li-Ion 18650 cells
Brand Name: AODA
BMS Rating: 2C
Size: Triangle 10.5″ x 15.0″ x 18.0″ x 3.75″ wide
Weight: 4.5 KG (9.9 lbs)
Cycles 800++
Charger 110V/220V in 48v 4AH out
Source Resistance (mO) <40
Cell Combination 7P13S
Cell Quantity (parallel*series) 7*13
Discharge Cutoff Voltage (V) 37.6
Charge Cutoff Voltage (V) 54.6
Rated Discharge Current (A) 30
Instantaneous Maximum Discharge Current (A) 50
Maximum Continuous Discharge Current (A) 30
Maximum Continuous Charge Current (A) 5
Charge Mode CC-CV
Standard Charge Current (A) 2
Charge Time Standard Charge Current 8
Fast Charge Current (A) 5
Charge Time under Fast Charge Current 3 hours
Charge Temperature Range -20C -55C
Discharge Temperature Range -20C -55C

 

[beoutside]

letter I sent to Calibike
RE: Taking CA out of the loop

Thanks , I have tried that with no difference. I wonder if it has anything to do with the BMS . I was the one who had the cold solder problems at the power wires ( originally from calibike) and on/off switch problems( originally from calibike) that I repaired when I first received the battery . Some connections were not soldered ( cold soldered) and the metal zipper on the battery soft case also came in connect with the charge port burning it out with a short and flame burst.......You sent me replacement solder joints so I repaired those bad connections. Since the on/off switch was creating problems I removed it and just wired the red and black together . I also wired the charge and main connectors with xt 90 anti spark matching this with xt 90 on the charger. It seems to charge to capacity from what the CA shows . I have set one of the three way switch settings to max amps but this did not change anything . I use the bike on primarily flat bike paths so I have never noticed this but have always noticed strong winds will effect my speed therefore I think this has been an issue since day one ( when I first purchased the battery). We don't ride year round here so I don't have many many cycles on this set up. I just added the CA this season.
Any tips on checking the battery.....what about sending it back for you to test since I am no electrical specialist appreciate your time. I do work on and rebuild our vehicles and bikes so I do have a decent shop with all the related tools and knowledge.
Sent from my iPad

 

[beoutside]

As I have said before "I really appreciate everyone and there knowledge",
I am no electrical expert but I think on the original build this is something I missed from Cali bike and has caused all my on and off again issues
controller issues ,
hub working not working then working ,
couldn't get the back up new BMC controller to work,
fried one of Lyens controllers .... ect
no hill climbing power .... I now understand amps out so probably would have caught this day one.... volts fine charge fine which is why I assume it has been fine on the flats, just low amps out


your guys thoughts
Since I am running the CA what about bypassing the BMC?

Going with a luna cycle battery when this one finally gives up

 

[beoutside]

So with that said I also understand I would go back and reset my limiting switch to the max for my hub 27 amps on the CA so I don't fry the hub with potential full power from the battery without BMS .... I set it at unlimited while trying to find the lack of power issue .