MAC vs Bafang

[CogHog]

ebikessf.com is out of all their MAC motors and he said it would be like 2 months before he got another shipment of them.

My mistake, he does have the 6T MAC Rear in stock.

That is good. The 6T is a speed version. The thing with more winds like the 10T is the torque off the line. I have the torque V2T and swear I go from 0-20 mph in 3.5 seconds. The 3C I tried takes 5 seconds to get there. I think everyone loves the pull off the line no matter what motor you are running.

I still have this front V3C available and ready to roll. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=41498 I am listing it on ebay Sunday night at 7pm PST 11/11/12 just so someone can see my feedback rating. The front motor has a shorter axle best for a mid drive attempt.

 

[veloman]

Just a piece of advice to anyone looking into the 6T Mac in a 26" wheel. You need to run it on 1000watts minimum to get off the line acceptably, IMO. I weigh 170lbs. I am working on my gf's ebike I set up for her and have it at 750watts peak with a 6T, and it's just a dog off the line or any hill.

If it was a 10T or even an 8T, 750watts wouldn't be too bad. The 6T just blows at slow city riding. Makes a lot of heat.

 

[PetersReviews]

Just a piece of advice to anyone looking into the 6T Mac in a 26" wheel. You need to run it on 1000watts minimum to get off the line acceptably, IMO. I weigh 170lbs. I am working on my gf's ebike I set up for her and have it at 750watts peak with a 6T, and it's just a dog off the line or any hill.

If it was a 10T or even an 8T, 750watts wouldn't be too bad. The 6T just blows at slow city riding. Makes a lot of heat.

Hmm... I just ordered the 6T in a 26" wheel. I'm a hair lighter than you so hopefully I'll get decent performance. I'll be powering it with a Ping 36v 20ah battery. I'll let you all know how it does when it gets here.

 

[TheBeastie]

Does the Bafang 48v500W offer regen? I was reading a post by Dogman reviewing the Fusion motor (which looks and sounds just like the Bafang) and he said the Fusion was non-free spinning and therefore offered regen. And if so does the regen kick in when you go past the no load speed?

Regen doesn't exist on geared motors normally, if you can dig up a kit that can do it it's going to be serious big bucks.

I couldn't respond to your pm, I think it's slightly broken.
For Bafang wind choice you have to get the 213rpm one, unless your wheel is SMALLER then 26".
Make sure you get it from say greenbikekit.com or anywhere other Bmsbattery, unless you want to risk getting wonky untrue wheel with loose spokes etc like I ended up with. I didn't say it originally outright but bmsbattery are totally not worth it.

If I could go back in time and do it over again I probably would of ordered a kit from emissionsfree but built my own RC Lipo battery instead. BMSbattery have a lot of life4/li-MnCo battery options that are well priced to make it tempting to get it all together in one go at a decent price, and life4/Li-ion are good plug and play battery so you dont have to think much about what your doing, but RC lipo still rules for performance.

With RC lipo you can increase your capacity/Ah by adding more packs in parallel and you can chuck away a bad pack if something is really wrong and keep the rest of your packs.
The biggest surprise cost for a small RC lipo build is the power supply/charger but its not much really, considering the hassle of getting a bad battery or charger from China.

I just built a RC lipo battery out of Turnigy packs and its great, all cells etc were fine. Its a bit more of a extended learning curve but its worth it. http://sdrv.ms/T6Pdzh
I just ordered all the cables etc from hobby king or epbuddy. Did not have to solder anything.

If you want to consider lipo check out the recommended lipo noob links http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19956

 

[veloman]

Just a piece of advice to anyone looking into the 6T Mac in a 26" wheel. You need to run it on 1000watts minimum to get off the line acceptably, IMO. I weigh 170lbs. I am working on my gf's ebike I set up for her and have it at 750watts peak with a 6T, and it's just a dog off the line or any hill.

If it was a 10T or even an 8T, 750watts wouldn't be too bad. The 6T just blows at slow city riding. Makes a lot of heat.

Hmm... I just ordered the 6T in a 26" wheel. I'm a hair lighter than you so hopefully I'll get decent performance. I'll be powering it with a Ping 36v 20ah battery. I'll let you all know how it does when it gets here.

If you don't stop often or have hills, you would be okay. With a 20ah Ping, you could set the max amps to 40 and it would accelerate good. When I rode it on 40amps, it was a blast. 20amps.....boring. The only good reason to have the 6T is if you need 30mph and don't want more than a 36v battery. I bought mine because I wasn't aware of the different vendors, and this one member in the US only had the 6T and it was a good price.

Also, I get better efficiency riding my 8T on 1300watts, with better performance, than the 6T on 750w. At these levels, the higher power just helps you get up to speed. It is a lot to do with riding style too, I can control myself well.

 

[TheBeastie]

Just to refresh, i ordered my bpm 500 from greenbikekit..

I have the 216rpm rear motor. It is slow! 15mph with a 48v pack. The amps from the controller adds torque which is what i wanted for off roading, commuting is a little frustrating. I dont really feel any more strength going up a steep hill than other faster rpm motors i have used.

Seems a bit slow, maybe your underestimating it? What battery have you got? lifepo4, Li-MnNiCo? or Lipo? Maybe you should load up mapmyride,I load it up on my ipad and ride with it on in my cotton backpack seems to pick up GPS just fine.
I think it is available on any iOS or Android device.

 

[ions82]

I recently ordered an 8T 1000W MAC kit from Emissions-Free.com (through the new website.) It's been a fantastic experience. Paul (Cell-man) has been very helpful in guiding me through the process of my first build. For batteries, I'll be using a 12S3P Li-Po setup. I also recently purchased a BMC V2T setup (with V4 clutch/gears) from Ilia over at ebikessf.com. It, too, was a very good experience. I would highly recommend either of those vendors.

As for the noise of a BMC V4 vs. a MAC, I guess I'll soon find out which one is louder. I can't wait to get them on the road. For me, customer service and quality control was a HUGE factor in making these purchases. Having to return or re-send things (whether overseas or in-country) is a costly and time-consuming process. I'll gladly pay a little extra for assurance and peace of mind (and customer support when things don't always go as planned.)

 

[neptronix]

Cool! I'd like to hear your results for sure.

 

[d8veh]

Just to refresh, i ordered my bpm 500 from greenbikekit for delivery to the UK. All good with communication from the seller during the process. Arrived in around 5 days once posted. The Fedex shipping was very reasonable, though i suggest that you just pay the economy price i paid for an express service but it was still sent economy shipping. Customs value on the package was also low. Good service that i would use again.

I have the 216rpm rear motor. It is slow! 15mph with a 48v pack. The amps from the controller adds torque which is what i wanted for off roading, commuting is a little frustrating. I dont really feel any more strength going up a steep hill than other faster rpm motors i have used.

Sounds like you've connected the 15mph speed-limit connectors on the controller. You should leave the white wires disconnected. The same applies with the three-position switch on position one, which will also limit speed to 15mph.

 

[kriskros]

i have had both setups....bafanf front mout,26" wheel,36v,12amp ping..controlller at 20amps. bike lighrweight chromolly mtb. approx 45lbs with all components. ne\eds lots of help on hills.SPEED..28kph...puma,speed wind[mac] 26" wheel,36v,20amp a123,contollerat 30amps,,trike weight approx 65lbs,, pedal needed only steep er hills...speed 40kph

 

[alfantastic]

The way I look at it, teddy_kgb (OP), is that no kit presently on the market, is quite up to the reliability standards of say Nissan, Toyota or Honda.
Therefore you will inevitably come across a few niggles, whatever kit you end up buying.
The clincher, for me anyway, has got to be the after sales service. Even if you do spend a few more bucks for good service.

Is the vendor gonna help with any problems encountered, or fob you off with a big shitty stick

 

[d8veh]

i have had both setups....bafanf front mout,26" wheel,36v,12amp ping..controlller at 20amps. bike lighrweight chromolly mtb. approx 45lbs with all components. ne\eds lots of help on hills.SPEED..28kph...puma,speed wind[mac] 26" wheel,36v,20amp a123,contollerat 30amps,,trike weight approx 65lbs,, pedal needed only steep er hills...speed 40kph

Put the 30amp controller and A123 battery on the BPM motor and you would only need to pedal on very steep hills. It's logical that 50% more current gives better climbing power.

 

[teddy_kgb]

I get what everyone is saying about customer support, and I feel guilty thinking about buying a kit from china when Ilia's shop is only about an hour drive away from where I live. But he only has the 6T in stock and that won't work for me with the kind of hills I need to negotiate, even he recommended an 8T. And everyone is saying the MAC are just about as good as the BMC and I don't feel like paying and extra $300 for a BMC kit. And I appreciate that Paul has such good customer service but it does not make much sense to pay the $140 shipping from Hong Kong when like I said I'm close to Ilia's shop. Maybe I should just wait until he gets the 8T in stock.

 

[neptronix]

Why does it cost $140 to ship from hong kong? You're in America right? I got a quote for $70-$80 to ship a MAC motor from cell_man's site..

If you have mega hills, you should really consider a 10T setup.

 

[miuan]

Why does it cost $140 to ship from hong kong? You're in America right? I got a quote for $70-$80 to ship a MAC motor from cell_man's site..

If you have mega hills, you should really consider a 10T setup.

10T is still kinda speed wind in bafang terms. I ride the 10T and bought a 17T for my dad - the 216-232 or so RPM 48V motor listed on GBK/BMSBattery. Now THAT is a climbing monster. The motor never gets hot even with my uber fat 125kg dad onboard! He rides it with stock KU93 22A controller at 12S2P lipo.
This is one of the things MAC has to catch up with... although their motors are very good already. The 6/8/10t speed winds are not to everyone's taste.

edit: now I see em3ev also has the 12t wind bare motor and as high as 16t kit offers incl. quality rims and wheel build.. looks good!!!

 

[neptronix]

There is a 12T winding actually. 200rpm on 36v. If that's not a stump puller of a motor, i don't know what is
Would be fun to pump 24S into one.

 

[-dg]

10T is still kinda speed wind in bafang terms. I ride the 10T and bought a 17T for my dad - the 216-232 or so RPM 48V motor listed on GBK/BMSBattery. Now THAT is a climbing monster. The motor never gets hot even with my uber fat 125kg dad onboard! He rides it with stock KU93 22A controller at 12S2P lipo.

I kinda resemble your dad sizewise and live in a hilly area, so that 17T BPM might be a good choice for me. What kind of speed does he get on 12s, and in what wheel size? How do you feel about the motor overall?

 

[teddy_kgb]

Why does it cost $140 to ship from hong kong? You're in America right? I got a quote for $70-$80 to ship a MAC motor from cell_man's site..

Paul quoted me $158 for EMS, 148 for Airmail and $90 for SAL (I assume that is boat). But that is for the whole kit, I guess I could save a lot in shipping if I don't get the wheel.

 

[neptronix]

SAL is surface-air lifted.. part boat, part plane. Good shipping method. Takes about 1-2 weeks to the USA from China.

Don't leave the wheel out of the order, getting a prebuilt wheel from cell_man is ultra cheap compared to doing it otherwise.

 

[veloman]

SAL is surface-air lifted.. part boat, part plane. Good shipping method. Takes about 1-2 weeks to the USA from China.

Don't leave the wheel out of the order, getting a prebuilt wheel from cell_man is ultra cheap compared to doing it otherwise.

Seriously. I haven't had to touch the spokes once on my 26" 8T from him. 3000 miles and counting. To get a wheel built locally, you're looking at $50-70 parts plus $40-60 labor.

 

[neptronix]

Seriously. I haven't had to touch the spokes once on my 26" 8T from him. 3000 miles and counting. To get a wheel built locally, you're looking at $50-70 parts plus $40-60 labor.

Me either, and i have the sorta cheap off brand rim he sent me in early 2011.

I'm 250lbs, like to run a 12-16lb battery, have a hardtail bike, and have ridden on all sorts of awful broken up city streets, taken unexpected 1ft. drops, ran the motor at 4kW.. what he put together is basically indestructible!

It was worth the $35 plus the extra shipping for that rim and lace job, to say the least!! :lol:

 

[miuan]

10T is still kinda speed wind in bafang terms. I ride the 10T and bought a 17T for my dad - the 216-232 or so RPM 48V motor listed on GBK/BMSBattery. Now THAT is a climbing monster. The motor never gets hot even with my uber fat 125kg dad onboard! He rides it with stock KU93 22A controller at 12S2P lipo.

I kinda resemble your dad sizewise and live in a hilly area, so that 17T BPM might be a good choice for me. What kind of speed does he get on 12s, and in what wheel size? How do you feel about the motor overall?

700c wheel, about 17 mph max. but dont quote me on this, never got to measure the speed myself. my feel is, at this sort of power, it may well run almost forever. That said, he only has few shorter 8-12% ascents, others are like 4-7%. I built it with butted Sapim spokes from JRH and Rigida Andra rim.

 

[veloman]

I would expect the gears to wear proportionally faster on the slow turn motors. More torque = more stress on the gears. Maybe that's why my 6T 'whitey' gears look brand new still.

 

[miuan]

I would expect the gears to wear proportionally faster on the slow turn motors. More torque = more stress on the gears. Maybe that's why my 6T 'whitey' gears look brand new still.

Gears are designed to bear the loads OK unless overloaded. Their wear depends entirely on how you feed, load and assist the motor (fatter = worse). Also, heat is important with nylon gear wear, and these slow motors usually produce less heat, so the gears retain their shape better. I hope this makes sense.

 

[d8veh]

On my Code 15 201 rpm BPM, I've done 35000 miles of hilly riding with my 100kg on board. No sign of wear from the gears. I think it's a Myth. I've never seen worn gears on a BPM except when substantially over-powered.
Edit: 3500 miles not 35000.