Magnet motor?

[Just2807]

Why are we still not seeing something like this? -.-
I saw very old yt videos and old old posts of self sustaining (after u give it starting momentum with a hand) permanent magnet motors spinning for a very long time.
I am well aware of very possible hoax too but i it's obvious to me it could (maybe) work. Any1 have some nice good info on this, some interesting concepts like helping motor spin or it acting like a generator or efficiency improvement or whatever, any use of it etc? Perpetum mobile would be nice eh ;D
Didn't find anything worth reading on google except bashing the designs and exposing hoax :|

 

[nutnspecial]

I think it's because we can't overcome /beat physics to scale these things up for major work - in reasonable sizes. I don't think it's debatable there are devices that are only limited in 'perpetual' motion by their physical components such as bearing and magnet life - they just can't do much work unless @ huge scale.

I do agree we should see more power generation from such things, including 'wave' and 'tide' generators etc. The real shame imo is there's no way we've found to harness (or even fully detect) energy from the huge changes in velocity planet earth would experience while orbiting the speeding sun. We do do that when harnessing tidal energy, though it's still at least semi debatable tides are more generated from electomagnetic force rather than moon vs earth gravitational force.

 

[learningrc]

Magnet motors are literally impossible.

If you had a motor that had permanent magnets on the rotor and the stator, then the most the rotor will turn is 1/2 revolution. It will turn until the magnets are in a state of equilibrium.

Actual motors work because at least on of the magnetic fields in the rotor and/or stator is changing. This could be because of a commutator that is physically changing the direction of current through a wire to reverse the magnetic field or it could be because the electrical source is alternating current.

Permanent magnets, by their very nature, can't change their fields in this way so there is no way to make a motor out of just permanent magnets.

 

[Just2807]

How about arangeing the magnets and mechanically changing the poles with rotation (like valves on a gas motor), similar to this video under?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ge2h8Apgd8&t=314s
Minute 5 :|
It would allow a full 360?
I am not trying to invent anything, just curious in the whole thing. Every1 saying NO IT DOESNT WORK IT CANT WORK BLAH BLAH and no1 explains much and i read this forum almost every day, figured its a very good place to ask. If some1 even found a working scheme, oilheads prolly threw alot of money to dump it in a river before it gets out. And yes, i am aware if there is a working thing it wold be somewhere out. Just curiosity.

 

[learningrc]

I suppose if you started physically moving the magnets while it rotated, it could work. But then you are adding energy into the system, which defeats the supposed point of the magnet motor. What advantage do you think doing it this way would have over normal motors?

 

[Just2807]

I imagined it as a nice idea for battery substitute (or "battery helper"), as a generator or a charger Hand would only be a "starter". And ofc u need to invest some energy. Magnets have to be made too, bearings... etc etc

 

[neptronix]

If you could make a motor with zero eddy losses, zero losses from aerodynamics of the spinning shaft and stator/rotor, and zero end turn losses ( IE every atom of copper happens to be positoned in a place where it creates a useable magnetic field ), then you could make a motor that spins forever at 100% efficiency..

Maybe that'd be possible on another planet?
Until then, instead of having 100% effiicient motors, we'll have to deal with 97%..

Why are people so obsessed with that last 3% tho? the closer you get to 0% losses, the exponentially more expensive the motor gets. a 1kw 97% efficient motor is in the $10000's, whereas a junk steel lamination, sloppy wound 83% efficient 30mm 9C clone can be produced for $100-$150 or so :lol:

 

[nutnspecial]

I think it's the idea it represents.

Just, is this what you're thinking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqG-TL0WnjE
[youtube]zqG-TL0WnjE[/youtube]

I think it's wildly simple, while equally ingenious. I'm surprised noone has done in depth test/study in that direction on here?

 

[Doctorbass]

Physics law have proven to work for everyone that tested these with proper knowledge.

This is why today we are able to generate Gigawatts from few kg of uranium or water falling.. but these " free energy" stuff never showed to generate Megawatts or Gigawatts, but only the amount of watt that hands or small hidden motor and battery can generate

I have stop counting people that write me on YT and FB about questions for magnet motor

But something clarely is revealed: The majority of these people that think and or are convinced it can work have low to moderate physics knowledge and are more like emotionnal or peace and love style... they can't explain when you ask too deep physics questins and even worst! : some will justify that it work beacuse it cant be explained!!!

For all those who wrote me and was convinced that magnet motor canb work.. No one ever was able to get back to me with a working prototype or to come and show it to me... NEVER !.... period!!

What i really dont like is that all these people that believe in free energy stuff, are time consuming becasue because of them i have to spend hours of explanations to correct missinformations.

Guess what!.. The YT video that i have made that is the most succesfull.. is not about ebike!! but is about my answer to explain to my uncle how a magnet motor video exemple can't be possible...

nearly 1.000.000 view !! lol... and according to the stats there is about 14% people that seem to believe it can exist!.. now come that famous question: what percentage of people have good physics base knowledge :wink:


( sorry .. it's in french):

[youtube]jCugmUhhFDY[/youtube]

Doc

 

[nutnspecial]

Wow, yeah 1 million hits ain't bad, maybe you should make more? 8)

There's so much that is OTP, obviously electrically lossy or either convoluted or crazy, but DocBass what do you think of the simple magnet wheel 'motor' I posted above- seems to be a simple principle and example well within the limits of physics.

 

[Doctorbass]

Wow, yeah 1 million hits ain't bad, maybe you should make more? 8)

There's so much that is OTP, obviously electrically lossy or either convoluted or crazy, but DocBass what do you think of the simple magnet wheel 'motor' I posted above- seems to be a simple principle and example well within the limits of physics.

Answer is simple.. the builder have trick it... if it would work it would be possible to scale it up to power large genrator.. and not only a table type demo...

Statisticly it is impossible that no one are powering sucessfully their home using these free energy stuff..

Do you know someone that did it ?.. no? why? :wink:


http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/overbal.htm

Amen!

Doc

 

[nutnspecial]

I follow that logic, and maybe my physics is naive, but to get any reasonable amount of current, would it remain fiscally (or physically) viable/plausible? I'm thinking no.

Is there any other reason why it Must be a trick? I don't see any physical law it's breaking.


__________________________
Uh oh - now enter the French speaking videos - I don't know French!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th5EL-KJ2Lw
[youtube]th5EL-KJ2Lw[/youtube]
What is this guy saying?

Are we after the same principle of a simple windmill? The wind is perpetual in a way.
And of course the sick movement we see of the moon and stars and shit.

Everything is cyclical to a varying degree, increasing towards perpetuity. (With of course in mind that 'perpetual' is technically not provable or disprovable any more than 'infinite'.)

 

[learningrc]

nutspecial,

The physical law it is breaking is the conservation of energy. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put into a system.

In the first video you posted, notice that every one of those parts of the video where motion is produced, a human is in some way providing energy into the system. Either somebody pushes some magnets in between some other magnets or their hand moves back and forth at just the right time to keep the wheel spinning. Since that wheel probably requires very little torque to move and it isn't rotating very quickly, the person's hand moving back and forth is enough energy put into the system to keep the wheel rotating.

In the last one with no human intervention, where does the energy come from? One possibility is that the energy comes from the initial drop of that top bar. There is gravitational potential energy and when the person releases the pin, that potential energy is turned into kinetic energy. With low friction, there could be so little energy required to keep it spinning that it's possible that the wheel would keep spinning that entire time based on the energy from that initial drop. This isn't free energy, though, because as soon as you would add any sort of load the wheel would stop much sooner.

Another possiblility, a somebody already mentioned, is there is a hidden motor and battery somewhere. This is very common for these perpetual motion/free energy motors.

Either way, the energy has to come from somewhere. I saw one video where the sound cut out right as the thing started to spin and then the sound came back on when it stopped. It turned out there was somebody off screen with a leaf blower causing it to turn.

 

[Just2807]

then you could make a motor that spins forever at 100% efficiency..

Maybe that'd be possible on another planet?
Until then, instead of having 100% effiicient motors, we'll have to deal with 97%..

I "dont" want 100% efficient motor or perpetum mobile. And why planet? Why not spinning it on the edge of the atmosphere in vacuum without bearings and 0 gravity eh? Solars could power electromagnets and we could even forget neodymium ;D And motors are not a "bottleneck" at all imo. Idea is to use magnetic force to induce momentum and use that momentum, nothing free or uber effcient. Magnet fuel ;D

I think it's the idea it represents.

Just, is this what you're thinking about?

Something like that yeah

I was just wondering could it be built big enough to output some usable amount of power. Like could 700kg magnet motor-> generator (IF we say that power on this principle comes with upscaling, "more magnets more momentum") output for a nice amount of time lets say 5W? I am far away from talking about efficient system and i am just shooting numbers, just to maybe see could it be possible. An idea, nothing else or revolutionary.

And its not free energy, u have to make magnets, tool out the system, assemble it, start to spin it, calculate all losses, spin it when it stops, replace magnets when they lose usable properties.... It's far from free energy. And it's not free again, it's using force from magnet, just a different type of "fuel" which we have to produce in the 1st place. Idk why call it free when its far from it. I think it should be looked at "paying itself out in time", not like a FREE ETERNAL EFFICIENT BEST ENERGY

Anyway, i am not trying to prove anything or be a smartass, bash any1 or compare myself to my bro Tesla or say IT MUST WORK. Don't get me wrong. I just think it's at least interesting to discuss and didnt find info or thread on forum. If it shouldnt be listed and its a dumb thread, pls remove it :|

Or we could consider smallest hoax as a working prototype eh? ;D

 

[nutnspecial]

Often words like permanent, free, always, never, infinite, and perpetual are used when they should not. It's all relative, like 'permanent' magnets for instance.

From the motion of the stars, to the sun, tides, wind, and down to simple cellular regeneration, it's obvious there's 'alot' of energy in existence (some say ALL is energy), and it's hard to imagine some of that energy 'aimed' to spin a measly wheel? If someone called that magnet motor a perpetual motion machine, I'd be like "Cool! How long will it spin, and can any current be generated from the motion?". The other reactions are beyond silly imo.

I don't know the guy, but that one looks plausible to me. Looks like there's enough magnetic force to rotate the wheel and lift the bar each time. Boom, it spins till it wears out.

 

[Ohbse]

Almost every single one of these devices I have seen result in an inconsequential amount of motion being continued for some time. Human brain equates motion with energy, but this is pretty far from true a lot of the time. There's a reason you don't see any of these devices around - they simply do not work. By that I mean, they do not produce energy. They do spin and occasionally look pretty doing it.

The commonly held belief that these types of inventions are being 'suppressed' doesn't hold water either, it's just rationalization because the alternative is that you invested a lot of time and got very excited about something you were incapable of detecting as bullshit. People are no good at admitting they were mistaken.

 

[kiwifiat]

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

― Mark Twain