Manufacturers and dealers to avoid

I really don't think anyone has to endeavor to put GM out of business -- they will handle that task perfectly well themselves if they keep treating customers this way.

I can't wait to use GM's e-mails next semester in our business class when we get to professional business relationships and customer service -- they are priceless! You simply could not concoct better examples of what not to do.
 
nutsandvolts said:
Yes, they certainly have a lot to learn about public relations and customer service, but there are proper ways of doing things, and public threatening isn't a good way.

Is a company lying in public considered a 'good way' of doing business? Do you think that what GM has said on this thread concerning the issue regarding GM refunding my money is true? It may be. This will be GM's opportunity to show that they can and will make good on their word. If they do make good then I will report so here. If they do not I will also report so here.

I originally put my case on this forum thread because I received zero response from the GM company to my multiple emails once they had my money. They did twice respond to my friend who still had his money in his hands though. After GM saw my remarks on this forum is when i FINALLY got a response. Therefore it appears to me that this was not only a good way but the only way I was going to get any dialog going between me and GM.

However, I do appreciate hearing the opinions, both pro and con, from everybody who wants to contribute.

EDIT: BE SURE TO SEE ONE OF MY LAST POSTS REGARDING MY ISSUE. IT HAS SOME 'BULLETED' LINES NEAR THE END AND I BELIEVE IS NEAR THE END OF PAGE 5. I can't see where these posts are numbered as they are on some forums.
 
i really haven't seen these thousands of people who were ripped off. kaz said he was ripped and yao gave him the money, nothing more required from kaz. i assume that kaz had already communicated with goldenmotor about something he did not recieve so yao may have had records in front of him to work from.

i never gave them a free pass, just the opposite. i was led by a number of people referring to the poor service from goldenmotor to believe it was a bad product but i met someone who had a rear goldenmotor and they liked it so it thought i would get the spun out motor to upgrade the phase wires. fixing the hall sensors is easy compared to pushing the wires through the axle. imo

i knew the shenzen controller already because i repaired one for duane, the regen 48V model. i even offered to help icecube fix his after he banged it up on the rear wheel and it shorted out.

so i just made the observation that my assumptions about the quality of the goldenmotor was likely misplaced since the inside of the motor and controller seemed functional and more than adequate for it being the cheapest motor available. now phil has pointed out that the wires should come out on the other side of the minimotor, and maybe yao can do something about it since he knows phil from the goldenmotor forum too.

i think it is good to see danny ray get another order, just seemed like you changed your mind midstream because they did not give you a date the motor would arrive, i could not see any other reason for canceling the order and demanding your money back. except that kaz had got money back by attacking yao at the start of the thread. but it seems as though kaz deserved to get his money back because he did not get what he paid for, but you had canceled right in the middle of the order being shipped. you never got shorted, never got the wrong product, never even wired it up and have it not run like a lotta people must do and then demand their money back.

i can well imagine how many thousands of people put the kit together wrong, it doesn't run because of bad wiring or other mistake and the customer demands to send the motor back. so goldenmotor ends up with 'used' motors that are perfectly good and then get slammed for delivering them to another customer.

they can't win unless they actually do include information to educate the DIY who is used to plug and play, and gets overwhelmed at the failure of the motor to start. or the spin out problem caused by the lawyers lips and poor torque arms.

my point is that yao should be working on that and not try to fix problems which don't exist, imo.

i doubt if these motors are big enuff for a motorcycle conversion in any case. but markcycle is building a hubmotor big enuff for a motorcycle conversion if you wanna go that route. it is just not the cheapest motor around, which i think is why people buy these motors to begin with.
 
ecowheelz said:
GoldenMotor said:
How do you intend to put us out of business? Hahaha...

If you prefer buying from AmpedBikes, be my guest. We will not hesitate to refund your money if you really need that few hundred dollars so badly. However don't come and tell me how your product failed and stuff because we now require evidence for each refund. Thank you very much!

What a great response... customer service definitely appears to be a priority at GM! :wink:

Quoting out of context? I thought he tried to explain the situation. If you want overnight shipping, buy American, else be a little patient. 8)

Also try the forum at goldenmotor.com/smf
 
i was thinking a little about the resistor that had to be inline to prevent the hall from shorting out. if i had a 88V phase lead at the moment they shorted then with a current capacity of 8.7mA it would need a 10.1kohm resistor. this amount of resistance has gotta impact the signal going to the microprocessor, so no need to worry about #2. just gonna buy some more hall sensors from mouser, 83 cents/each for 12.
 
"If you want communication, go to the forums I moderate."

Yeah, that's the spirit of freedom of speech!
 
I have worked many years in customer service, in sales and in technical medium and am supervising a tech service center dealing with professional clients, so I've seen lots of this happening.

Consumers using the forums as a way to equal the level playing field.

First of all, in the consumerism world, both parties (the buyer and seller) have equal responsibility. The seller or company must be responsible and be able to deliver the goods advertised based on terms and conditions it stipulates in sales and be able to provide certain guarantees required by the law that the business entity is operating in. The consumer must also be responsible in understanding completely the terms and conditions stipulated in the sales and be able to provide payment in full in the amount of time required by the seller. In effect, when a sale occurs, the seller and buyer enters into a binding contract. This protects the seller that the goods provided or sold is provided to the consumer as it was described. The consumer should also knowingly understand what the seller sells goods wise and its condition. This makes sense since if I go into a Chinese restaurant, I expect to be served Chinese food, NOT Korean, Japanese, Greek etc.. In the same token, the consumer also expect to respect the same by expecting Chinese food to be served in a Chinese restaurant, not forcing Chinese chefs to make Italian food.

The heart of this debate between the seller and buyer now seemed to be with poor communication -- I think one poster mentioned it right.

Either the buyer poorly communicated with the seller about his intentions and expectations on the sale or the seller didn't explain it thoroughly to the buyer what to expect. Did the seller explain the ordering situation or what the goods to be expected clearly to the buyer? Did the buyer asks these questions before paying for it. When you pay for the goods, the buyer goes into a binding contract with the seller. And when you try to back out of a deal, the credit card company usually doesn't want to get involved in reverse charges and stuff like that. The key is, the buyer paid for the goods. When you pay, you signed a sales contract with the seller, because if you read your credit card agreement very carefully, you will know that you are liable for that payment.

When people have buyer's remorse, they usually and mostly have a sincere wish to cause the least trouble to try and recoup the money they spent. But what they don't realize is that, the merchant isn't doing this for free. There are charges for the merchant to complete the transactions (and this is not direct to GM but to most retailers) and of course, he or she ended up stocking the goods that you didn't want and perhaps might not get sold for days, months or perhaps longer. That is money that can be used to buy other stocks for other customers. When you stock so much stock, that's money that's not earning any interest. So it's normal for a retailer sometimes to get upset when they are stuck with goods that they thought you want but not anymore. For big corporations, we usually have a float and we refurbished them and sell them as seconds. For smaller retailers, what do you do with returned stock? Do you expect to send them back to the manufacturer?!? Sorry, for makers these days just laugh back -- what you bought you keep!! So really, they become a middle man with limited options.

It's sort of like this. You work for a company and the company pays you a good wage. All of a sudden, you got sick one day or you came in half asleep and the company feels that I will only pay you when you're not sick. Sometimes, you just can't help catching something, but you think that it's not fair because you are protected by labor laws. Yes you are, but what do you then feel if the company suddenly goes on the job forum telling every employer what a lazy bum you are, you're always sick and so forth, which is of course not entirely true and all other employers will then say, yeah sure he got what he deserved because they are acting by their own interest/proxy.

Again, the actions of GM to me is a sign of a young, inexperienced growing company. It wants to help, but lack the experience and the aptitude to do so in the time being. I am sure eventually that they will improve. Short of that, they will become like any other companies like Atari, Wang and so forth if they don't.
 
Hi again, I am Gregte who seems to have really started a stir in this thread. I want to tell you all of the recent developments regarding my transaction with Golden Motor. But first, I want to point something out that I think is necessary...

I have noticed, not only in this thread but in many threads on many forums that I subscribe to, that a great number of the people who post their opinions regarding another persons comments do not read the entire comment of the first poster. Things get taken completely out of context and twisted to the point that they are completely misrepresentative of what the original poster wrote. This has shown up extensively in this thread PLEASE read my entire posts and put all the pieces together as they are presented before forming an opinion. Do otherwise is very likely to cause your opinion to be based on half truths and untruths.

Now to the subject of this post... my original complaint with GM is that they would not respond to emails I had sent regarding the delivery time of my recent order of an ebike DYI kit. My complaint was strengthened due to the fact that GM did respond to emails sent by a friend who was asking about an item hi might buy.

Because of the above, and because of other things I had read about GM on this forum, it appeared that it may be likely I would not get my order anywhere close to the 5 to 8 or 5 to 10 business day shipping time as advertised by GM As I considered this to be a very real possibility, considereing the lack of email responses I was preparing to do what ever I felt necessary to get my money back IF GM did not deliver on time. Please go back and re-read my posts and you will see that this is the case. I did NOT say that GM had not kept their delivery promise. I implied that it appeared that they would likey not keep it.

Fast Forward to today, June 3, 2009... I DID RECEIVE the ebike DYI kit today minus the battery. This means that GM DID in fact deliver the kit, minus battery, within SIX days which is obviously well within the 5 to 10 day time frame. In other words, Golden Motor did exactly as they had promised to do except for the battery. However, like I just said it has only been SIX days since my order and therefore nothing is required to be here yet.

In light of this, I intend to be lenient on the delivery time of the battery as I have just been told by Golden Motors that batteries can be held up in customs. I do not understand this but I do believe it because of correspondence that I have recently had with a number of other battery suppliers in China. I wish I could have know this before I placed my original order. I may have opted to to purchase a battery stateside. (Incidentally, I have just this morning done that also to have a battery to go with my AmpedBike ebike kit.)

So, to recap and sum it up;

• I was originally mad at GM for not responding to my emails.

• Because of the above I prepared myself to take action against GM if they did not deliver on time.

• Many heated words were exchanged on this forum and through subsequent emails.

• Golden Motor DID in fact deliver the kit well within the stated time frame, minus the battery though.

• My position at this point is that GM so far DID do what they advertised they would do. I have NOT been 'burned' or cheated in any way by GM at this point.

• I do not have any reason to believe that GM will not deliver the battery. It may be later than I would like but I do believe that that will be because of things beyond the control of GM.

• I only wish I could have known of a possible battery delay so I could have shopped for one stateside instead.

• If I need any more ebike parts or supplies I will likely consider Golden Motor as a place to get them. However, getting batteries from China may be slow but that is apparently beyond the control of the sellers. And for that matter, at this date the battery I have ordered from GM is NOT late.

I have learned a great deal from this forum thread and I hope others have also. It can be very easy to jump to wrong conclusions based a small amounts of information. I am a very easy to deal with person if I feel I am being treated fairly but I get upset very quickly if I feel I am being taken advantage of. I hope I live long enough to outgrow some of my 'quick-temperedness'.

Thank you to all who have helped and my apologies to all I may have offended.

Gregte
 
Dear Greg,

Everything is cool. We are currently still trying to hire people to reply to e-mails. We wouldn't want you to receive mails that contain (quoted from an ex-staff) "Hi, you package is shipping from us today, wait long time and we good for everything all of it, thank you, please not reply do today because we no battery ship for custom to check".
and the reply was "I can't understand what you are trying to say"
 
wait for the battery. GM battery is good stuff. Mounting is great. Key switch is convenient. No need to duct tape to bike.
 
dmun, you say that i was ripped by philip but he gave me my money back - but this is not the whole story. It took 6 MONTHS of me continually telling of the SHOCKING treatment i was given. I believe it was only this bad publicity and hence loss of orders that brought GM to the forums and give me my money back.

Also, if you read my last post you will see that the first thing i say is that Gregte will receive his motor (check it now...). My reason for chiming in was the stupid lack of replying to customers emails which is EXACTLY how my problems started with GM.

And GM, no i do not still have a grudge. I said I would back off and let you try and redeem yourself and mostly i have. But Gregte was having near the same problem that i had, so when you do stuff that you said you were going to change of course im going to speak up. Also, i never said i MET thousands of people who you ripped off with bad product that YOU ADMITTED already that you palmed off onto the unsuspecting. But i believe my numbers aren't far off. If Ampedbikes has sold 3,000 motors in the short time they have been going then you've obviously sold THOUSANDS of substandard bits of kit in all the years you've been going - it doesn't require an MBA to work it out.

GM, why not spend less time on PR and more time answering some emails.

I'd be sorry to see you stop posting on the forum. I freely admit I don't like the way you seem to be turning into an advertising spot for your wares, but I think you could be really, truely useful to members of the board who need answers to questions about the product you've sold them.

Actually, i think these last posts should be moved to the Golden Motor thread. This Manufacturers To Avoid thread I think should be left to just customers personal bad experience rather than discussion, but I'll go with the flow.
 
Gregte should have never have posted on this thread. The guy places an order from China and then immediately posts on the "Companies to avoid" thread that GM screwed him, WTF? :roll: He never even gave them a chance. I feel that he owes GM a big apology. It probably would also be a good idea if he makes as many posts as he has about their crappy service extolling how fast GM ships their products to the US. It would only be fair as all the rude comments and threats are here to be found by Google forever.

I can understand Kaz being pissed as I think he was truly wronged. But Gregte had nothing go bad, all he got was good service from a company in China with limited english speaking abilities.

At first I thought Gregte was a troll out to shit on GM. He/She certainly acted like it.

Hey Mods, How about moving all of Gregte's posts to the sewer. It most likely should have been done earlier.

Nick
 
nicobie said:
Gregte should have never have posted on this thread. The guy places an order from China and then immediately posts on the "Companies to avoid" thread that GM screwed him, WTF? :roll: He never even gave them a chance. I feel that he owes GM a big apology. It probably would also be a good idea if he makes as many posts as he has about their crappy service extolling how fast GM ships their products to the US. It would only be fair as all the rude comments and threats are here to be found by Google forever.

I can understand Kaz being pissed as I think he was truly wronged. But Gregte had nothing go bad, all he got was good service from a company in China with limited english speaking abilities.

At first I thought Gregte was a troll out to shit on GM. He/She certainly acted like it.

Hey Mods, How about moving all of Gregte's posts to the sewer. It most likely should have been done earlier.

Nick

Nick,

Do you recall what my one and only complaint was on this thread?

Gregte
 
I ordered a Golden Motor 500w 36v rear motor. It arrived 5 days after I ordered it. The cruise control function is nice as are the failure modes. Hope I don't ever have to use those but it is nice to have the ability. I don't believe the alarm will be useful unless you have a strong, lockable battery. The cruise control and horn wires were mismarked on my kit and it was very difficult to fit the width of the wheel in my old beater. I am very happy with the product. I like the controller alot.
 
kazbluesky said:
GOLDEN MOTORS - avoid like the plague!!!!

Let me tell you my story. In August I ordered the 500 whatt Motor kit (including battery) from Golden Motor. They took my money immediately, then sent me 2 USED broken batteries in a row. After about a month of arguing (politely) I started a dispute with Paypal with GM and asked them to tell me when they sent my motor because that hadn't arrived either. After not bothering to reply to six paypal emails they finally said , "There are no 700c wheels in China so we can't send you a motor." China is the bicycle capitol of the planet - no 700c wheels - bollocks!! So, they took my money when they knew they couldn't fill my order, their site says they sell 700c wheels though (that's why I ordered), knowing they couldn't send me the GM kit they still sent me batteries to use for a kit they couldn't send me, and then to add insult injury they send me USED BROKEN batteries!!!!! Finally they say they will give me 745 dollars of the 840 I paid because of they wanted to charge me for shipping. So now I have two used pieces of junk that, here in Japan, I have to pay to get taken away!!!!

So, Golden Motor sux in my view beyond any possibility of redemption. I know some people are happy with their golden Motors, all I can say is that they were lucky that the parts they received were probably stripped from bikes that had problems with their bells or something.

I'm not attacking Ampedbikes or Ping here, I hear good things about them, I'm talking about the company Golden Motor and Philip.

If you have any doubts about this scammy little company (6 million dollars total net worth - think about it (actually I don't even believe that)) then go to the Golden Motor forum and see how many other people are furious with them too.

I'm off for a beer....I'm pissed off, I might as well be pissed too!!!

PS It's amazing that they have got me this disgusted and pissed off, nothing usually pisses me off, I give people a lot of latitude, I've never had this kind of problem in years and years of buying online - so if they can piss even me off, it would turn any normal person into a raving knife maniac!!

AVOID - Don't even think about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks for that. I wanted actually to some business with them and now I think it will put me off
 
yendrek3 said:
Thanks for that. I wanted actually to some business with them and now I think it will put me off

Keep in mind they went through some internal restructuring and, from what I heard, they've cleaned up their act a fair bit from when that was posted.
 
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