Mark's build number 4....Kona Dawg

[Mark_A_W]

Well, guys, here is number 4.


There was no thread for number 3, it was a old Mongoose Downhill dually frame, and the only place to put the batteries was on the rear cantilevered rack...that lasted about a month until the frame cracked.

Number 2 was a Jamis Dakar XC Comp dually, the chainstays broke on that....at 40kmh.

Number 1 was a very old cro moly hardtail. I guess it will never break, but it's not what I wanted.


So here we are with number 4. Kona Dawg Deelux frame from Ebay for A$150. Fitted my Marzocchi Bomber Junior T forks, with custom reinforcements and the Nine Continents motor.

My 48v 10Ah Headway pack fits in the triangle, stays put thanks to Mr Duct Tape. There's also an ally bracket in there. And I just added an ally bash plate around the battery, for when I put the bike on it's side at speed (when....not if..) - but that's not in the photos.

Thanks to Voicecoils I also have a 12v 10Ah Headway booster pack in the rear compartment.

So it's 60v nominal, 74v off the charger. Controller modded to 30Amps. Does 42-44kmh on the flat with no pedalling, 50 or so with a brisk pedal. Spins the front wheel a bit on wet roads or dirt/grass.

Handling is really sweet. It's really well balanced. Only downside is the steering is a bit heavy.


Improvements I'd like: I'd like to move to a rear motor...if only I could find an internally geared one that fitted at 9 speed cassette (not crappy screw on freewheel - a proper cassette, with the freehub built into the motor), with a disc brake mount, with 135mm spacing, and handles ~2000 watts without dying.


Now, here's hoping this frame lasts the distance...not like the last two. TOUCH WOOD!!

Chargers are all hotglued to a US powerboard (with an Aussie plug fitted) so it's easy to chuck in my bag. Connects with just 2 XLR connectors.

Cheers

Mark (sweltering in 44 deg C)

 

[John in CR]

Gotta love the big triangles in many of those Konas, but mucho $ down here. Saw a used one similar color as yours in the nearby LBS that specializes in service to downhillers, but my pocketbook just couldn't release that kind of dough for a used bike (or a new one for that matter). You need to pass the collection hat for additional cells to fill out that triangle, then you can put that duct tape artistry to work for an even slicker install. Some of the guys complain about duct tape, but those of use who buy the multipacks like we do, and treat it as both an invaluable tool and building materialm, can appreciate the effort you put into your battery container. Hopefully the prosthetic dropout sleeves that you and I use for front hubs will catch on, since there currently exists no such thing as a decent all steel suspension fork, and alloy dropouts just beg for a serious accident despite what anyone says about torque arms and nut friction.

John

 

[Mark_A_W]

Ebay mate, ebay.

It was A$150 + 20 shipping.

Bargain.


Pissy little Torque Arms + nut friction = DEATH. You gotta do it properly.

 

[Toshi]

better luck with this frame than the last ones. fwiw the Dawg was a xc bike, however, so i fear it'll be very similar to the failed Dakar.

 

[Mark_A_W]

I hope not, it is a LOT more solid through the chainstays. And I inspect it every few days.


The Jamis was very light weight - this Kona was built for the "larger" rider. It's much heavier, more gussetting, even double seat post clamps.

The problem with a true downhill frame, is other than old Stinky's, they don't have space for batteries, and they are a bastard to pedal. My Mongoose (now repaired by Getadirtbike - thanks!!), bobbed much more than either of the XC bikes.

 

[D-Man]

Looks good Mark. Which bike rode the best as in comfort?

 

[recumbent]

Hope this ones a keeper, Mark. A big Part of your sluggish steering is the long stroke shocks on front. The whole physics of the design is nasty for anything except downhill racing.

How do you like the 9 Continents motor? I was thinking of trying one if they're smoother than C-lyte motors.

 

[Mark_A_W]

Hope this ones a keeper, Mark. A big Part of your sluggish steering is the long stroke shocks on front. The whole physics of the design is nasty for anything except downhill racing.

Umm, no it's not. I can adjust the length of the forks by playing with the clamps at the top. Even when I shorten them right up (the pedals hit the ground on corners..) the steering is much the same.

A while back I tried the forks without the motor, and they were fine then,

How do you like the 9 Continents motor? I was thinking of trying one if they're smoother than C-lyte motors.

Well, it's not an X5, but it has HEAPS more torque than the GL2 my brother has, despite the GL2 being much larger in diameter. Downside is I need 60v to go faster than the GL2 at 48v. For commuting this motor is great. Enough torque that it's kinda scary in the wet (can you say wheelspin?), and enough speed to beat my car at peak hour.


I just had to ride down to my brother's to pick something up. Here in Melbourne on Sunday mornings the lycras ride down Beach Rd for a race (the Hell Ride). Well my brother lives down that rd from my place. It was embarrassing...I must have overtaken 200 slow piles of lycra and carbon I averaged 43kmh, peaked at 53 or so. They are all doing 30-35....maybe 40 with a tailwind.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Mark,

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=122623

Hard tails handle more precisely. On a hard tail, I could ride along the top of the curb beside the road to avoid puddles, or plant my tire on the white stripe and keep it there while cruising. Now that I'm on a full suspension, I'm happier, a lot less sore, but I can't do any of those things anymore.

He has a Stinky. I think the handling issues are due to the downhill frame but I'm not sure. Does the Dawg have that imprecise handling problem?

What size is your frame and what are the dimensions of the triangle (space available for batteries)?

How wide is your pack and does it interfere with pedaling?

Thanks!

Mitch

 

[Mark_A_W]

Hi Mark,

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=122623

Hard tails handle more precisely. On a hard tail, I could ride along the top of the curb beside the road to avoid puddles, or plant my tire on the white stripe and keep it there while cruising. Now that I'm on a full suspension, I'm happier, a lot less sore, but I can't do any of those things anymore.

He has a Stinky. I think the handling issues are due to the downhill frame but I'm not sure. Does the Dawg have that imprecise handling problem?

What size is your frame and what are the dimensions of the triangle (space available for batteries)?

How wide is your pack and does it interfere with pedaling?

Thanks!

Mitch

No, it handles very well. The front motor is heavy, but it's not imprecise at all. I hammer around corners way faster than my brother can with a frame battery, rear motor, hardtail.

I'll have to go and take some measurements, but the battery is about 130 wide, and no, it doesn't interfere with pedalling at all. It is the Tab Welded Headway cells. If it it was the Screw Top cells it would be too wide.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Mark,

No, it handles very well. The front motor is heavy, but it's not imprecise at all. I hammer around corners way faster than my brother can with a frame battery, rear motor, hardtail.

I'll have to go and take some measurements, but the battery is about 130 wide, and no, it doesn't interfere with pedalling at all. It is the Tab Welded Headway cells. If it it was the Screw Top cells it would be too wide.

Thank you very much!

When its convenient (no hurry at all) measurements would be appreciated.

Thanks Again!

Mitch

 

[voicecoils]

No, it handles very well. The front motor is heavy, but it's not imprecise at all. I hammer around corners way faster than my brother can with a frame battery, rear motor, hardtail.

I'll have to go and take some measurements, but the battery is about 130 wide, and no, it doesn't interfere with pedalling at all. It is the Tab Welded Headway cells. If it it was the Screw Top cells it would be too wide.

@MitchJi
Tab cell dimensions are 120mmx38mm
The 36v10ah tab welded pack sizes are generally around 228mmx76mmx120mm or 114x152x120mm. You also need to allow about 120mmx100mmx30mm for the BMS. A bit added for shrinkwrap, tabs & wiring. You should be able to infer mark's 4x4 configuration from this.

The idea that a DH bike will inherently handle poorly because it's designed to go downhill is mis-informed IMO. If you've watched DH racers, they madly pedal the whole time (it's not just gravity) and throw the bike and their weight around to rail into corners, float over rock gardens, and sail across gaps. The bikes HAVE TO handle well, even though they're not light.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi VC,

@MitchJi
Tab cell dimensions are 120mmx38mm
The 36v10ah tab welded pack sizes are generally around 228mmx76mmx120mm or 114x152x120mm. You also need to allow about 120mmx100mmx30mm for the BMS. A bit added for shrinkwrap, tabs & wiring. You should be able to infer mark's 4x4 configuration from this.

Thanks! (although if its not to much trouble actual measurements from Mark would be appreciated)

The idea that a DH bike will inherently handle poorly because it's designed to go downhill is mis-informed IMO. If you've watched DH racers, they madly pedal the whole time (it's not just gravity) and throw the bike and their weight around to rail into corners, float over rock gardens, and sail across gaps. The bikes HAVE TO handle well, even though they're not light.

They are designed to handle well going downhill. Their geometry isn't optimal for level riding.

How else do you explain the imprecise handling of the Stinky on pavement?

When I first started looking at bikes to use for an Ebike a close friend who used to design bikes for Fisher told me to avoid DH bikes because of handling issues (mostly geometry).

Also:
http://www.dieselbikes.com/articles/article_00002.htm

Below is a typical bike build for XC frames that are oriented for this riding discipline:
Frame Design: Typically Full Suspension.
Frame Geometry: Head Tube Angle 70 degree; Seat Tube Angle 73 degree; Wheelbase 43 inches.

Designed with a long wheelbase and "slack" rider position, a DH bike is not ideal for riding general trails in the woods, but will serve its purpose when you transverse trails on an exclusively lift accessed terrain.
Below is a typical bike build for DH frames that are oriented for this riding discipline:
Frame Design: Typically Full Suspension.
Frame Geometry: Head Tube Angle 64 degree; Seat Tube Angle 65 degree; Wheelbase 47 inches.

 

[Mark_A_W]

I don't disagree Mitch.

DH bikes are way laid back and don't turn as fast as an XC bike. This actually suits an Ebike to some extent...because it's like going downhill all the time, and you typically aren't negotiating a twisty single track.

But the Kona Dawg is a heavy XC bike, not a downhill bike.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I don't disagree Mitch.

But the Kona Dawg is a heavy XC bike, not a downhill bike.

I know. That's one reason why I'm interested in it. Kona classifies the Dawg as "Back Country":
http://www.konaworld.com/bikes/2006/index.htm

There’s a real world need for bikes that are designed not to be for cross country riding and not for freeriding, but for a happy medium that combines the best of both worlds. The Kona Back Country series delivers all mountain durability and fun factor with the DNA to burn a quick pace line up a long twisting fire road. If you can only own one bike this is the series to look at.
DAWG SUPREME | DAWG PRIMO | DAWG DELUXE | DAWG

Heavier and stronger than an XC (with similar handling?). Combined with a relatively large triangle it seems like an excellent choice!

 

[deecanio]

i must confess to having a problem when choosing my kona, it was the dilemna of heavy xc or light dh, i went with the light dh but it could have gone either way tbh.
agree totally that the dawg is an excellent choice, i think you'll find it tough enough 8)

Cheers,

D

 

[Mark_A_W]

Ok, I understand what you are getting at now.


I did build the Dawg up as a regular bike (for a day) and it wasn't as nimble as the Jamis Dakar I had before (prior to ebiking conversion I mean).

But is wasn't too bad at all, more that the Jamis was a really, really nice bike (and I broke it in half..).


Yes, I think the Dawg is an excellent Ebike frame - but the newer ones have less triangle. Long term reliability will be the issue - I think it's strong enough, only time will tell.

 

[voicecoils]

What's new with the 'dawg? 8)

 

[Mark_A_W]

It just goes.

I've added a DC to DC converter ($8 ebay) driving 5 cree lights, but that's all.


It just works. The battery is 10 months old now, few thousand k's. No discernible change from new.


Cold and miserable down here now though. First winter we've had in years.

 

[BiGH]

mark,
loving the single cell chargers and o/s powerboard u have there... can u tell me where you got them?

Take Care,
Haydon

 

[patrickza]

There are a lot of Konas around now, my kahuna is nearly ready but I'm still waiting for the connectors bms and charger from headway. Did you make those connectors on your booster pack yourself?

I'm really hoping your frame is strong enough, I imagine it's stronger than my kahuna frame, and I need that one to last for me!

What are you charging the main pack with, the headway charger?

 

[pwbset]

Hi Mark. I'm being offered a lightly used 20" Kona Dawg all up for $450USD. I'm wondering your thoughts on a) is that a fair price do you think and b) I'd like to put my Clyte 504 in the rear, but have been reading that there ain't much metal back there (??). Think the dropouts would handle 74v, ~2kw sustained (bursts ~5-6kw) with two torque arms? Thanks for your thoughts!