Mit Battery breakthrough LifePO4 200-400c

[Arlo1]

Check it out! I love it in today's world we are one the edge of a huge transition and people complain about batteries then I show them mine that are cheep with 100c discharge and 7.5 minute charge time and say how long does it take to put gas in your car I can fill this battery in 7.5 minutes!

But every week I read about better batteries coming so....... Check it out! http://www.gizmag.com/lithium-ion-battery-breakthrough-mit/11244/

 

[Jay64]

That's cool news.

What batteries are you using that have a 7.5 minute charge time?

 

[dnmun]

is this now a commercial product? the paper from MIT was last november 2010, where they discovered that using nonstoichiometric amounts of Fe in lifepo4 created increased surface conduction of the ions to the openings in the lattice on the surface of the crystal that allowed the ions to enter the lattice much more rapidly than with the stoichiometric chemical ratios. i thought it was a seminal paper and will be part of lifepo4 developments. but other chemistries also have gained credence in the last year too.

 

[Arlo1]

That's cool news.

What batteries are you using that have a 7.5 minute charge time?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17268__Turnigy_nano_tech_5600mah_2S2P_50_100C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html

8c charge = 1/8 hour = 7.5 minutes!

 

[Jay64]

That's cool news.

What batteries are you using that have a 7.5 minute charge time?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17268__Turnigy_nano_tech_5600mah_2S2P_50_100C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html

8c charge = 1/8 hour = 7.5 minutes!

Nice, I will definitely keep my eye on those when I build something that I want to have a fast charge time. I've been planning some cross country type builds, these would probably be the ones to use with those. That way if I run out of juice I can just plug in to an opportunity plugin somewhere for a quick fill up. Better than being plugged into an outside outlet somewhere for a few hours, that's for sure.

 

[Arlo1]

That's cool news.

What batteries are you using that have a 7.5 minute charge time?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17268__Turnigy_nano_tech_5600mah_2S2P_50_100C_Hardcase_Lipo_Pack.html

8c charge = 1/8 hour = 7.5 minutes!

Nice, I will definitely keep my eye on those when I build something that I want to have a fast charge time. I've been planning some cross country type builds, these would probably be the ones to use with those. That way if I run out of juice I can just plug in to an opportunity plugin somewhere for a quick fill up. Better than being plugged into an outside outlet somewhere for a few hours, that's for sure.

Only depends on the charger/circuit breaker and how much power it can produce and how fast! Those people who want really fast charge times with big packs will need a bank of batteries on charge in their garage and then dump the energy form them to their ev to avoid overloading the wall outlet.

 

[dnmun]

the new public charge spot have DC charging power of 55kW now and they take their power off the three phase industrial power lines. this gives them 2C charging for the leaf and imev. manzanita micro makes the charger i think. i can foresee many offerings from the chinese over the next decade so expect you will be able to provide 6kW of charger inexpensively.

if there is this amount of charge capacity available at many nodes around the metro area, then most trips which originate and end at charging spots should be able to recover at least 1/2 the power used for the trip, during the interval the person plugs in the vehicle, then goes to the store, or dentist, or meeting, returns to vehicle and leaves with little downtime from the driver in facilitating the charging.

the reality is that it needs widespread available public charging spots, which means public participation, homeowners and business owners creating charge spots in front of the their homes on the public street or driveway, or parking lots for businesses. people are still hung up on property rights and controlling access to charging because of the fear they get ripped off to supply someone else's juice.

technology has already gone beyond the old english common law mindset, and will allow a cloud of authentication and individual charging interactions to take place outside of the regulatory authorities. this is what the state fears, because the road tax is very important to them, and is part of all the legislative agendas i see here in oregon. in fact the bid documents all specify how the public charge spots up for bids to contractors must provide vehicle identity and mileage data to the state through the net real time.

i think the ev world will create a large subculture of charging spot sharing owners who will act to avoid guvment surveillance. all jmho, but i have been through 3 major technological transforms in the last 40 years and can see how this will go. the big gulp, large tank, fat car world will not follow. people will use regular small charges frequently, billing managed through google or some facebook national ev charging page.

 

[SamTexas]

I love it in today's world we are one the edge of a huge transition and people complain about batteries then I show them mine that are cheep with 100c discharge and 7.5 minute charge time and say how long does it take to put gas in your car I can fill this battery in 7.5 minutes!

So you bought an expensive battery with a 100c discharge rate and 8c charge rate. But have you actually used either characteristic?

100c discharge: Have you completely discharged a full charged battery in 36 seconds?
8c charge: Have you actually charged your empty battery back to full capacity in 7.5 mins? It's IMPOSSIBLE to do so. At most you'd get 8c charging for the first 80%, then the current will drop gradually and significantly until the battery is fully charged. So 7.5mins charge time is a wishful number. Please don't use that number to impress people.

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Thanks dnmun...that's very interesting, to contemplate the transition, where some vehicle owners, the remaining internal combustion vehicles, will "fairly" pay for their share of the highway infrastructure, and the EV users will be avoiding their share, until a revenue collection method is determined. Knowing Americans, the collected revenues in toto will at first be inadequate to support the system, leading to great pressure on state highway departments revenue-wise and considerable delapidation, if that is a verb, of the shared infrastructure. Americans generally seem to be incapable ever of reaching political consensus to actually pay for the real costs of anything, so it should be fun to watch the pressures build up, and the political chaos to ensue, from this side of the Canadian border. One more part of the "clusterfuck" set of problems that James Howard Kunstler refers to in his book "Clusterfuck Nation". Non-vehicle owners won't be willing to pay either, even though their food supply is now highway based etc. So it should be a recipe for more political stupidity and gerrymandered local "solutions" to the historical waning of ICE, in a society desperate to maintain the general illogic (read... real estate prices) of suburbia vs. new urbanism. Nah...I'm not pessimistic. Does this make me an anti-social energy vampire, not paying my share of the upkeep of the highways?

 

[Arlo1]

I love it in today's world we are one the edge of a huge transition and people complain about batteries then I show them mine that are cheep with 100c discharge and 7.5 minute charge time and say how long does it take to put gas in your car I can fill this battery in 7.5 minutes!

So you bought an expensive battery with a 100c discharge rate and 8c charge rate. But have you actually used either characteristic?

100c discharge: Have you completely discharged a full charged battery in 36 seconds?

First off [youtube]5N_GWgJ6yUI[/youtube]

 

[Arlo1]

8c charge: Have you actually charged your empty battery back to full capacity in 7.5 mins? It's IMPOSSIBLE to do so. At most you'd get 8c charging for the first 80%, then the current will drop gradually and significantly until the battery is fully charged. So 7.5mins charge time is a wishful number. Please don't use that number to impress people.

And yes I cheated with a constant current charger made for charging/boosting 12v lead acid I hooked one pac up at a time and charged them at over 50amps! So don't try and tell me I cant do something till you get all the facts!

 

[dogman dan]

Well, how about a you probobally can't. Jay's dream of fast opportunity charges will be limited to the current avaliable on that plug behind the coke machine, which also has some outdoor lighting on the same circuit.

There's the rub, blow the breaker on the only outoor plug avaliable in some podunk town, and it's not likely the owner of the plug will like you, and let you plug back in after he gets his lights back on. So you might just be better off plugging in and using 5 amps of 110 and settling for charging that fast. About 500w. Still not so bad, 1kw recharged in two hours.

 

[Jay64]

I love it in today's world we are one the edge of a huge transition and people complain about batteries then I show them mine that are cheep with 100c discharge and 7.5 minute charge time and say how long does it take to put gas in your car I can fill this battery in 7.5 minutes!

So you bought an expensive battery with a 100c discharge rate and 8c charge rate. But have you actually used either characteristic?

100c discharge: Have you completely discharged a full charged battery in 36 seconds?
8c charge: Have you actually charged your empty battery back to full capacity in 7.5 mins? It's IMPOSSIBLE to do so. At most you'd get 8c charging for the first 80%, then the current will drop gradually and significantly until the battery is fully charged. So 7.5mins charge time is a wishful number. Please don't use that number to impress people.

Wow, that seemed a little aggressive.

Yes, I did get a little carried away with my thoughts and blurted out a wishful thinking scenario without thinking it through all the way with supplying the power to the batts. Thanks for correcting me guys. Still, it would be nice to have the capabilities to charge faster than my current 0.5c charge rate batts. Maybe I would have to stop at a place with proper 240 outlet like a shop/garage or something, not just plugging in behind a coke machine.

 

[SamTexas]

8c charge: Have you actually charged your empty battery back to full capacity in 7.5 mins? It's IMPOSSIBLE to do so. At most you'd get 8c charging for the first 80%, then the current will drop gradually and significantly until the battery is fully charged. So 7.5mins charge time is a wishful number. Please don't use that number to impress people.

And yes I cheated with a constant current charger made for charging/boosting 12v lead acid I hooked one pac up at a time and charged them at over 50amps! So don't try and tell me I cant do something till you get all the facts!

That is bullshit! Show me and show the world that you can charge your empty battery to full capacity in 7.5mins and I will apologize in public for doubting you.

The above video is bullshit too! It does not prove that your battery is being discharged at 100c, it does not prove that you did empty your battery in 36 seconds.

 

[Jay64]

Sam, why are you getting so upset about this?

 

[Jay64]

Thanks dbnun...that's very interesting, to contemplate the transition, where some vehicle owners, the remaining internal combustion vehicles, will "fairly" pay for their share of the highway infrastructure, and the EV users will be avoiding their share, until a revenue collection method is determined. Knowing Americans, the collected revenues in toto will at first be inadequate to support the system, leading to great pressure on state highway departments revenue-wise and considerable delapidation, if that is a verb, of the shared infrastructure. Americans generally seem to be incapable ever of reaching political consensus to actually pay for the real costs of anything, so it should be fun to watch the pressures build up, and the political chaos to ensue, from this side of the Canadian border. One more part of the "clusterfuck" set of problems that James Howard Kunstler refers to in his book "Clusterfuck Nation". Non-vehicle owners won't be willing to pay either, even though their food supply is now highway based etc. So it should be a recipe for more political stupidity and gerrymandered local "solutions" to the historical waning of ICE, in a society desperate to maintain the general illogic (read... real estate prices) of suburbia vs. new urbanism. Nah...I'm not pessimistic. Does this make me an anti-social energy vampire, not paying my share of the upkeep of the highways?

We just had a thing on our local news that the state of FL is loosing massive money going to be in the Billions soon, because too many people are now driving fuel efficient cars and we aren't making as much money on the gas taxes. So from now on, all the new roads being built are going to be toll roads. I was just in NY recently and those are some heavily tolled roads up there.

 

[SamTexas]

Jay64,

Actually I'm not at all upset. In my first post, I just felt sorry for the guy for being gullible and try to save him some embarrassment by asking him to stop telling people things that are physically impossible to do (7.5 mins charging for 8c charging battery). But may be I didn't do well enough.

In my second post, I had to be more aggressive because instead of admitting his mistake/misunderstanding, he kept insisting that he was correct and even showed his so-called proofs. Sorry, I just can't let myths turning into truths.

 

[neptronix]

What's 60 minutes (1C) divided by 8 (8C)?

Oh.. 7.5 minutes?

MUST BE A LIE!!!!

 

[neptronix]

I like how when you don't understand something, you go straight into anger mode.

 

[SamTexas]

I have tried many times to suppress my feeling about you Neptronix. But no more. You're just plain too dumb. And I'm now convinced that you will remain dumb forever.

 

[neptronix]

LOL

Never change Sam, you're too fun! not as fun as Morph but close!

 

[neptronix]

p.s. how's that 2 wire balancing charger working out for you that DrkAngel recommended?

 

[Arlo1]

I have tried many times to suppress my feeling about you Neptronix. But no more. You're just plain too dumb. And I'm now convinced that you will remain dumb forever.

You got the brain of a chimp man. I'm sorry my car starter cant pull more then 500 amps ATM But it was not limited by the battery. In fact when I get better wires on it I will run it harder and video it on another project! But I dont know what the frock you have against me or the ratings of a battery, non the less you belong on some cheese ball sport bike forum telling the world how your sandy vagina hurts when you ride your POS ICE bike!

 

[John in CR]

I don't get the fixation on fast charging stations. It seems like an inability to let go of the way it works now where you must stop at a station and buy fuel from the man. Way over 90% of charging will take place overnight at home or in your parking place. Sure there will be a need for some quick charge stations, but it's just not significant in the big picture.

 

[liveforphysics]

Omg Sam. You're always stuck in a contest fighting to be the dumbest human on earth.

I've charged the "10c" charge nanotech packs dozens of times in a row at 15C, 50% faster than they even claim they are able to do, and they handle it perfectly, retain excellent charge efficiency and barely get warm.

You can always skip the CV stage and coulomb count to charge. You an put exactly 5Ah into your cell and not have a bit of over charge if you just apply a constant 50amps for 6mins, or 100a for 3mins, or 200amps for 1.5mins (if you have a cell that could handle 45C charge.)

The voltage gets pulled up by the current times the resistance, so it may read 4.5v or whatever bearing the end of the 5Ah but if you only added 5Ah from a cell that was needing 5Ah to top off, your SOC will be perfect and the cell will sit right at 4.2v or whatever the moment the current stops at 5Ah.

More importantly, why on earth would you call out Arlo of all people? Bad ass awesome Canadian guy with awesome skills and a DIY mindset that is as dedicated as they come. He also has loads of experience using crazy high C-rate packs for starting loads on dragbikes and sprints and midgets and recently even cranking a high compression big block v8 with a tiny pocket sized pack.
Arlo = 100% solid.