Motor perhaps overextended?

[Cyclomania]

I have a bike with a 250 watt motor.

I have overvolted this bike quite a lot. So I have a controller with max current of 25. And a 48volt battery 17AH.

When going up a slope earlier today. The motor then started making all kinds of strange noises. At least I am 80% sure this sound comes from the motor.

The battery connections still shows me 48 volts so I don't think the battery or controller have taken any damage. But the motor gave me a lot of strange sounds. It still runs but with a strange sound. Any idea what this is or how I can fix it?

 

[harrisonpatm]

Any idea on what to do with the thick wire? Some experiment where these thick ones come in handy? Perhaps if you are building a 72 volt battery or something?

Stick it in the basement. It's purpose will become clear to you later. "If you build it, they will come"

 

[Cyclomania]

Now, I am going to solder on the new 12awg-wire soon. The old soldering, now cut off, looks like the picture on top and the old one like the one below.

Let me know if the soldering on the plus and minus poles looks too much like a big blob ? Does it need to be smaller? Or is it ok to have this much tin there?

Thing is I think it was hard to make the wire stick there the last time, without using a a lot of tin. When I had little tin it easily broke in the connection. So that is why I have a lot of tin there. Could this be a problem? Or does it look ok?

 

[E-HP]

Ya, those are pretty bad. My guess is your soldering iron isn't up to the task to apply enough heat to get the solder to flow. The left connection looks like there's a lack of flux applied. Better iron, more flux.

 

[Cyclomania]

Ya, those are pretty bad.

Yeah they are bad but they will still do the job. At least I think so ? Or could a solder-blob effect the current somehow?

I got the same reading for voltages from the battery-holes itself as when I measured the voltage on the xt60-connection going out from the that battery rail, when the battery was connected to it. That should mean it works as it should right?

Or could the blob-soldering effect the current somehow that I am not aware of?

My guess is your soldering iron isn't up to the task to apply enough heat to get the solder to flow. The left connection looks like there's a lack of flux applied. Better iron, more flux.

Hmm are they ok though? I haven't quite got the hang of how to use Flux yet. Flux should be added to the thing that is soldered correct? Not the actual soldering iron?

What makes you think not enough flux was applied? How is that possible to see? (wanna learn)

 

[E-HP]

Hmm are they ok though? I haven't quite got the hang of how to use Flux yet. Flux should be added to the thing that is soldered correct? Not the actual soldering iron?

What makes you think not enough flux was applied? How is that possible to see? (wanna learn)

Should be fine. Most solder for electronics already has rosin core flux in it, but if it doesn't, then you need a little tin of flux. Plumbing work uses acid core flux, that is corrosive if not removed afterwards, that shouldn't be used for electronics. As you heat and apply the solder, it will smoke a little from the flux heating up and melting. Rosin core solder alone works for smaller connections, but I usually add more flux on bigger connections like they ones you're soldering. You want to make sure the flux flow over the parts you are soldering, with cleans the surface to accept the solder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNkjR4FUU_0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3tC0ilM3vE

 

[LewTwo]

You are going to need a fairly substantial iron for that. Otherwise it will not heat the ends of the terminals quickly enough to remove the old solder. Too little heat for too long will likely melt the insulator that the terminals are inserted through. Perhaps you can remove the terminals from the insulator housing prior to soldering ???

 

[Cyclomania]

Should be fine.

Ah great so besides being a bit ugly they should still work right? I will cover this anyway with the rail so it was more that I wanted to know how to make better solders for the future. If it is not likely to impact the current or something bad like that I will keep it like this and just solder on the awg12 cable there. Because this one was a lot of work to make it stick.

I will buy flux. Good links. I did not know flux was made for making the solder stick(?). Great to know.

 

[Cyclomania]

You are going to need a fairly substantial iron for that. Otherwise it will not heat the ends of the terminals quickly enough to remove the old solder. Too little heat for too long will likely melt the insulator that the terminals are inserted through. Perhaps you can remove the terminals from the insulator housing prior to soldering ???

I think it is pretty ok. Looks like below. Was from a quality store. Goes up to 480 celsius. But perhaps not big enough? Too small?

 

[E-HP]

You are going to need a fairly substantial iron for that. Otherwise it will not heat the ends of the terminals quickly enough to remove the old solder. Too little heat for too long will likely melt the insulator that the terminals are inserted through. Perhaps you can remove the terminals from the insulator housing prior to soldering ???

Great point. It's not so much about the soldering iron's power, but ability to maintain the temperature, once the heat starts being transferred to the solder joint. Sort of like a cast iron pan maintains the temperature when you throw a steak on it, while the thing flimsy aluminum pan's temp drops down when throw on the steak, and it just steams itself.

I can't believe I waited so long to get this one, but now when soldering XT150 connectors, it only takes a few seconds to heat and fill the little cup with solder before inserting the pre-fluxed end of my #10 conductor. It's the right tool for the job.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3SG796/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have an in between sized iron that would work for joints like the OP is soldering, but it heats the joint fast, so you can quickly back off and not melt the plastic.

 

[E-HP]

You are going to need a fairly substantial iron for that. Otherwise it will not heat the ends of the terminals quickly enough to remove the old solder. Too little heat for too long will likely melt the insulator that the terminals are inserted through. Perhaps you can remove the terminals from the insulator housing prior to soldering ???

I think it is pretty ok. Looks like below. Was from a quality store. Goes up to 480 celsius. But perhaps not big enough? Too small?

If the tip is small, it's only 480C until you touch it to the soldering joint, at which point it will be half that, so then you need both the iron and joint to come up to temp. That's a 3 second solder joint using a big iron. It not about higher temp, it's about maintaining the right temp.

 

[99t4]

I think it is pretty ok. Looks like below. Was from a quality store. Goes up to 480 celsius. But perhaps not big enough? Too small?

Can't tell yet. Show us the tip. For soldering larger wires (as you are attempting here) the tip should be wide and more blunt. Not thin and pointy sharp. The idea is for the larger tip to act like more of a large heatsink, to hold more heat and deliver it longer when held to the large wire. Instead of the large wire sucking up all the heat from the small tip right away.

Most soldering pencils can use interchangeable tips so you should be able to get the right one for the job. Otherwise it's impossible and annoyingly frustrating.

In general, you want the wire to have good contact with the terminal. Solder has much less electrical conductivity than copper wire, so if the wire-to-terminal contact is bridged in the middle by a large blob of solder, that would act as a restriction to the free flow of juice thru the connection.

Looks like you are ready to study some YT soldering techniques videos. :thumb:

 

[amberwolf]

I can't believe I waited so long to get this one, but now when soldering XT150 connectors, it only takes a few seconds to heat and fill the little cup with solder before inserting the pre-fluxed end of my #10 conductor. It's the right tool for the job.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3SG796

Ditto on that iron. I have one of it's older versions that's served me perfectly for many years.

On the very rare occasion I need it for something that I do not want it to heat as fast, I use one of these as a power control (not a temperature control), to cut it down to as little as half the 80W it's capable of:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VMNVB8D

When I need *actual* temperature control, and for fine / small work, I use this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077JDGY1J
with a tip kit from weller like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P1B2535
which isn't from weller but the one I got isn't available there anymore.

 

[Cyclomania]

You are going to need a fairly substantial iron for that. Otherwise it will not heat the ends of the terminals quickly enough to remove the old solder. Too little heat for too long will likely melt the insulator that the terminals are inserted through. Perhaps you can remove the terminals from the insulator housing prior to soldering ???

I think it is pretty ok. Looks like below. Was from a quality store. Goes up to 480 celsius. But perhaps not big enough? Too small?

If the tip is small, it's only 480C until you touch it to the soldering joint, at which point it will be half that, so then you need both the iron and joint to come up to temp. That's a 3 second solder joint using a big iron. It not about higher temp, it's about maintaining the right temp.

It is this one. Sold in Scandinavia:

https://www.kjell.com/no/produkter/elektro-og-verktoy/verktoy/lodding/loddebolter/luxorparts-loddestasjon-startpakke-48-w-p40712?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrYHB7ezo-wIVOYKDBx3k_wGOEAQYASABEgIq_PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Don't know if it tells you guys anything.

 

[amberwolf]

Now, I am going to solder on the new 12awg-wire soon. The old soldering, now cut off, looks like the picture on top and the old one like the one below.

For things like this, you need an iron with more watts and a fatter thicker tip, like the one linked above by me and E-HP.

The one you have isn't able to correctly solder things like this with large thermal mass and high thermal conductivity--it's made for small parts on circuit boards with thin wires and thin traces. I've had several like it over the years of various brands.

Before soldering, the wire itself needs to be tightly connected to the contact it is being soldered to.

If the contacts have holes in them, then the wire needs to loop thru this hole first, then be twisted/wrapped back to itself like a noose, before soldering.
like this segment of a randomly found video on soldering
https://youtu.be/DM6rqVRMxXs?t=55

If the contacts are solid, then you need to wrap the wire around the contacts' flat surfaces as tightly as possible, and then twist it back to itself like a noose to hold it in place.

If these are not possilbe to do, you can first flatten and then bend the wire to conform to the contacts' flat surfaces, then pull it off leaving it in that shape and tin the wire with solder so it is "wetted", not lumpy but just smooth and shiny with the wires in it clearly visible (not globbed in solder). Then put the wire back on the contact, and use needle-nose pliers to "crimp" it to the contact so it holds itself in place. Then secure the contacts and wire in place so they cannot move, and then solder the wire to the contacts fully. (again, not with globs of solder, watch some of the "how to solder" videos to see what good joints should look like; a random image search to show good vs bad:
https://www.google.com/search?q=good+solder+joint&tbm=isch )

 

[E-HP]

It is this one. Sold in Scandinavia:

https://www.kjell.com/no/produkter/elektro-og-verktoy/verktoy/lodding/loddebolter/luxorparts-loddestasjon-startpakke-48-w-p40712?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrYHB7ezo-wIVOYKDBx3k_wGOEAQYASABEgIq_PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Don't know if it tells you guys anything.

Well I guess there's your problem. Assuming Google translator is working correctly, plus a picture tells a thousand words. Iron doesn't have enough heat stored in the tip to offset how quickly the copper wire is conducting heat away. so the joint won't heat up enough to flow the solder.

 

[Cyclomania]

Ok

So this blob-solder won't do the work in the meantime? As I said before I get the same voltage form the battery rail as I get from the battery. So it seems to do the job of transporting current. But it still has to be resoldered?

I cannot afford a new soldering iron for a while. But I will buy one in time. I have done this ugly soldering before, and I could do it again But you guys think this might impact the current negatively in the whole system?

Could this even be the problem behind the cutoffs that I have described in this thread? Or is that unlikely to be the problem?
Or is this more a problem of esthetics?

 

[99t4]

So this blob-solder won't do the work in the meantime?

Cannot be relied on during heavy current demands.

As I said before I get the same voltage form the battery rail as I get from the battery. So it seems to do the job of transporting current.

Doubt you did the appropriate test to measure voltage drop across the connection under load. You probably just simply measured voltage under no load condition, right?

https://www.alldata.com/sites/default/files/file-attachments/voltage_drop__test_122718.pdf

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/automotive/electrical-automotive-troubleshooting

 

[Cyclomania]

So this blob-solder won't do the work in the meantime?

Cannot be relied on during heavy current demands.

As I said before I get the same voltage form the battery rail as I get from the battery. So it seems to do the job of transporting current.

Doubt you did the appropriate test to measure voltage drop across the connection under load. You probably just simply measured voltage under no load condition, right?

https://www.alldata.com/sites/default/files/file-attachments/voltage_drop__test_122718.pdf

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/automotive/electrical-automotive-troubleshooting

Yeah I did

 

[Cyclomania]

Hmm is it one soldering machine that you all agreed on is the best for this purpose? Think I will get one of those in the future. And then make this solder

 

[Cyclomania]

Is the problem that the blob is too big? And could I therefore make it smaller? Or why is this soldering a problem really?

I am curious and I want to know. So if anyone can describe in detail very carefully why this solder won't work I would appreciate it.

 

[Cyclomania]

Now, I am going to solder on the new 12awg-wire soon. The old soldering, now cut off, looks like the picture on top and the old one like the one below.

For things like this, you need an iron with more watts and a fatter thicker tip, like the one linked above by me and E-HP.

The one you have isn't able to correctly solder things like this with large thermal mass and high thermal conductivity--it's made for small parts on circuit boards with thin wires and thin traces. I've had several like it over the years of various brands.

Before soldering, the wire itself needs to be tightly connected to the contact it is being soldered to.

If the contacts have holes in them, then the wire needs to loop thru this hole first, then be twisted/wrapped back to itself like a noose, before soldering.
like this segment of a randomly found video on soldering
https://youtu.be/DM6rqVRMxXs?t=55

They actually have holes. Looks like below.

 

[E-HP]

Is the problem that the blob is too big? And could I therefore make it smaller? Or why is this soldering a problem really?

I am curious and I want to know. So if anyone can describe in detail very carefully why this solder won't work I would appreciate it.

If the left joint has a weak connection, you still would measure full voltage, but once higher current starts flowing, the joint will heat up and start melting stuff, like this:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=117200#p1727028

 

[amberwolf]

Is the problem that the blob is too big? And could I therefore make it smaller? Or why is this soldering a problem really?

I am curious and I want to know. So if anyone can describe in detail very carefully why this solder won't work I would appreciate it.

problem is the blob

look at the good vs bad pics and the how-to-solder pages; there are lots of pages out there that tell you how soldering and connecting things work that will educate you on the process better than we can do here

 

[amberwolf]

They actually have holes. Looks like below.

those are there to put the wires in so they can be correclty connected to the contacts

if you don't use the contacts as they are designed to be used, they aren't going to work the way they were designed and your results may be undesirable or fail later just when you need them to work.

 

[Cyclomania]

They actually have holes. Looks like below.

those are there to put the wires in so they can be correclty connected to the contacts

if you don't use the contacts as they are designed to be used, they aren't going to work the way they were designed and your results may be undesirable or fail later just when you need them to work.

I have ordered one exactly like this but with an already soldered on cable. Problem was I had to do that myself with this one. But when I get the new one (january perhaps) I am going to open it and see how it looks to get a better idea on what to do with the one I already have.

Seems like both you and E-HP ordered this one so perhaps I will get it:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3SG796?th=1

It was that one right?

Can you guys also explain why this type of soldering that I have done will melt when I put great current through it? While a solder from a bigger iron, like the one above, won't melt from a large amount of current? I mean it is still the same tin. So can someone explain why it won't melt when it is done with an iron like the one above?