Motor Runs in Reverse

[broloch]

I have a hub motor-Crystalyte 408, and a Nine Continent 36V 20A controller.

The motor has two groups of wires, yellow, green blue, and a group of five: yellow, red, black, green, blue.

I was told to match them up as Y-Y, G-B, B-G, and Y-Y, R-R, Blk-Blk, G-B, and B-G.

The motor now runs in reverse. Is there anything I can do to fix it?

The controller does not have a forward/reverse switch unlike my Crystalyte controller which blew.

 

[Mike1]

To reverse direction you swap 2 phases and the same 2 halls. So if you swap those blues and greens over so everything matches then it should work.

 

[broloch]

So what you are saying is to take the motor phases (set of 3 pairs) and the hall sensors (set of 5 pairs) and the blues and greens on both sets?

e.g.

Yellow-Yellow
Blue-Blue
Green-Green

Black-Black
Red-Red
Green-Green
Blue-Blue
Yellow-Yellow

 

[Mike1]

Yes. IIRC thats the standard method to change direction.

 

[gilnet]

So you wouldn't have to try all those sensor combos?Phase =Hall and it's going to be the right combo every time? I've been battling w/mine for long time.Hooked up originally as per pix,ran backwards. tried 6 phase combos w/o changing any hall wires as these were clearly color matched in pix.Found forward smooth,no load, finally but when the tire was on ground it didn't work.When checked halls one at a time w/tire rotate,ALL halls showed the voltage every 15degrees.This is supposedly a brushed motor that has sensors(?)I have made sure not to do anything that might hurt halls,motor controller.So adventurist behavior was not attempted.throttle works fine bb,rr and grey(controller)to signal on throttle.Been pushing me over the edge(this is condensed version).

 

[pwbset]

This is supposedly a brushed motor

Gil the 4011 I sold you is brushless not brushed. Did you do the two motor phase swap I told you to try? Sorry this is driving you over the edge, but it really is as simple as swapping two of the motor phase wires coming off the controller. Best of luck.

 

[gilnet]

It says brushed in your original post and I asked you again,because there are no hall sensor w brushed that I could find.If you read my post,I tried ALL phase combos.NowTrying to see if maybe a cold solder is involved,could have happened in transit.Luck is no longer a viable option.

 

[broloch]

4011 is brushless

 

[pwbset]

Look gil... I'm sure you hate me for not labeling stuff better, but I don't ever recall saying a 4011 is brushed.. I wouldn't do that knowing that's not the case. The only brushed Clytes I've ever heard of are the DC and the 409. You might be confusing that with when I said you should just buy a "sensorless" controller so you don't have to deal with the halls anymore. There is no proof either way now because the Items forum auto-deletes posts. Having said that I sold you an entire working ebike system with batteries for $300 that spun forward etc etc ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXB8zgZyTzw ). "Soup to nuts". If you're unwilling to seek help in setting up the phase wires I'm afraid you're on your own. This is not rocket science and the photos I sent were of a forward spinning, working system. Period. I can't control what's happened to any of the components since you've received them and I'm sorry for not individually labeling each single wire, but I refuse to feel badly about that. I will say no more on this and wish you all the luck and highly recommend you put aside your stubbornness to figure it out on your own and get help so you can be wearing an EV grin already instead of just stewing in your frustration and anger towards me, which is wholly unjustified in my opinion. Good luck.

 

[gilnet]

I'm being stubborn?I tried how you had in picture,I tried what you suggested next and I tried ALL the phase's 6 combos.I got it running forward on the 5th but it only worked up in the air.touch ground?nope.Your test video?running off the ground.Amberwolf Walked me through shitload of basic tests,none of which worked.He helped way beyond the call of duty, keeping me focused on the task at hand.Did it that way so it didn't get more confusing with opinions coming from all over the place.Also did it private so you would not be dragged into it.It's called a "fresh start w/an open mind"not stubborn.

 

[John in CR]

If it's a front hub motor, just turn it around for a simple solution.

If that's not possible, and it was running smoothly in reverse, then yes swap any two phase wires, BUT NOT THE SAME hall wires. You should be able to get it in a maximum of 6 tries.

If the thing runs in reverse, then there's nothing wrong with anything (controller or motor), and you just need to get a good wiring combo. Out of 36 combo's, six are correct (3 reverse and 3 forward). It can be frustrating if you're not systematic about it. If you already have a known good reverse, then it's quite simple, and can get it in only 2 or 3 tries. Go light with the throttle when trying different combos, because full throttle and a bad wiring combo can result in high current and damage something.

John

 

[docnjoj]

Just in case, make sure the wheel is not contacting the ground while you are testing. I just got lucky, but it was with a sensorless controller, so only 6 combos to deal with. It's really is not rocket science or neurosurgery.
otherDoc

 

[fechter]

Reversing the motor may not be as simple as swapping matching hall and phase pairs. As I recall, you swap a phase pair, but the hall signal wires need to 'rotate' one position. Clearly if it runs forward, there is a way to wire it to run reversed. If all else fails, you can do trial and error: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484

Or you may find the combination you're looking for in the "Known to Work" diagrams thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6241

 

[broloch]

Reversing the motor may not be as simple as swapping matching hall and phase pairs. As I recall, you swap a phase pair, but the hall signal wires need to 'rotate' one position. Clearly if it runs forward, there is a way to wire it to run reversed. If all else fails, you can do trial and error: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484

Or you may find the combination you're looking for in the "Known to Work" diagrams thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6241

Any idea where to go from here? I tried all 36 combinations with the hall and phase pairs, and sometimes the motor runs forward just a little, or runs in reverse, or sits there and makes a rumbling noise.

 

[John in CR]

Broloch,

You've got a bad connection, bad wire, or bad hall. That reverse isn't a valid one. My Grubee hub is that way, and spins the wheel up pretty good with an invalid combo...no torque though and high current with no load. There is never any reason to try all 36 combos. 6 are valid, 3 reverse and 3 forward.

I had a connection problem that really gave me headaches till I found it by accident. One of the spades for my hall wire plug wasn't aligned properly and slid off to the side instead of in its socket. A no connection on a phase wire seems pretty unlikely, unless it's inside the motor.

If you can't find a bad connection, then connect it in one of those reverse combos you found. Measure the no load current to satisfy yourself that it is actually a valid combo, just in reverse. You can use it though to figure out which wire has a problem by disconnecting each one one at a time. The one that makes no change is the problem one. You can also test your hall sensors pretty easily with a small battery. Do a search here to find that procedure.

I wish you luck, and I understand your frustration. Now it's a matter of tracking down the actual problem. Hopefully just a bad connector or something outside of the hub, that is easily remedied. Next time you're hunting for a correct wiring combo, 12 is the absolute most you need to try (for one phase combo, all 6 hall combos. Then swap only 2 phase wires and try the 6 halls again). This will yield 1 valid forward and one valid reverse, period.

John

 

[broloch]

thanks, i will try to look at the connections again

 

[John in CR]

You might start with a valid reverse combination, if you have them written down. Measure the no load current. If that looks good, then you know with certainty that there's nothing wrong with the motor or controller, and just a wiring problem.

John

 

[broloch]

Hey John, I found three combinations where the motor was running forward and seemingly well.

I made sure that the wires were connected very well as per your suggestion. Thank-you.

How do I pick of the three combinations? Will the wrong combination damage the controller, battery or motor?

 

[jkirkeboe]

I have the same controller, and I had the same problems, spinning in reverse. Mine had a 2-pin connector on a short lead for controlling forward/reverse. I cut of the connector and twisted the wires together, that made the motor run forward instead.

 

[liveforphysics]

Hey John, I found three combinations where the motor was running forward and seemingly well.

I made sure that the wires were connected very well as per your suggestion. Thank-you.

How do I pick of the three combinations? Will the wrong combination damage the controller, battery or motor?

Any of the 3 combos that makes it run forward with good torque will be equally fine.

This thread made me chuckle about 4 times. I'm glad it's sorted out now, and it sounds like you got a hell of a good deal!

 

[John in CR]

Broloch,

Glad you got it working. Nothing more frustrating than electronics not working when you're a noob to electronics like us. There are 3 correct combinations for each direction, so you got all 3...far more patient than I am. Your dues are paid and now you're golden, since you can find the right wiring for any sensored BLDC 3 phase motor.

John

 

[broloch]

Really happy about that. Didn't think that it would be so simple, but I just got lazy and didn't put anderson's on two wire sets (red and black) that I was not connecting and disconnecting.

I got those two wire sets connected really well and did all 36 combinations once more for a third try (third time's a charm, right?)



Much appreciated for the good sound advice.