Motor suddenly runs in reverse

[tndr_1]

Hello!

This was happening today:
I did my first "long" test run (25min long) today which was 7.40km which a max speed of 30km/h for my three wheeled Piaggio Ape conversion (200kg without load)... When I came back home everything was fine. It smelled a bit funky from my control box (which I opened up to just see how stuff behaves, this was somewhat a premiere) which also houses the DC-DC converter. Stuff was warm, not hot. I parked the vehicle by putting switching my reverse gear switch and was able to reverse it. Nothing weird. But when I later (approv 15mins) was going to run it again, the forward gear (reverse switched back) has turned into reverse mode.

I have check that the reverse switch it actually connecting the two reverse cables. That works! Nothing funky there from what I can tell.

My setup:
1000W BLDC motor 48V
60V 44Ah 80A lithium battery pack (custom)

And this controller:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004105836465.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.20301802CloAwn

As far as I know, it has no self learning. The white cables are presumably "soft start", but the seller says that it has no soft start despite the wiring diagram in the ad. AliExpress....... I know.

It feels like a really weird "bug" if the reverse gear "switched around" by something getting too hot?

What do you think about this? I have tried to "act like" the two white wires are self learning and have swiftly tried to connect them and disconnect them to "reset" something. But no result.

Hope someone can help me! =)

/ Oskar

Work in progress:

 

[tndr_1]

Uhm. I did some more testing.

This has nothing to do with motor running in reverse in particular.

It now runs only forward despite being set to run in reverse. It did this after I connected the white wires again.

 

[fechter]

Strange. It seems like maybe the wires for the reverse switch have a bad connection somewhere (possibly inside the controller). Try unplugging the connector and reconnecting it.

Also, what are the controller and dc-dc mounted on? Those need to dissipate a fair amount of heat and the heat needs to go somewhere. Wood is not a good heat conductor.

 

[tndr_1]

Thanks for your reply!

Yes it is strange. I do not think it has anything to do with the switch. I have tried what u suggested.

And yes. It needs more air circulation. I will add that. And a fan!

I just dismounted the controller and opened it up. I can not find anything that looks burnt on the PCB. But! The plastic has been melted on one of the phases.

I have attached pictures of everything. Should I be worried about anything? The motor runs and makes the vehicle move. But I do not run it other than on the drive way now when I do not know the reason for this failure.

 

[E-HP]

I have attached pictures of everything. Should I be worried about anything? The motor runs and makes the vehicle move. But I do not run it other than on the drive way now when I do not know the reason for this failure.

Did that programming port come installed, or did you add it (and have you made changes through that interface)?

 

[tndr_1]

No and no. I just tried it out. Didn’t get any connection. I will remove the wires. I think the code in this clone does not support any configuration sadly.

 

[fechter]

The melted spot indicates something was getting hot. Make sure all the screws are tight.

Try to trace out which pin goes to the reverse switch and closely look at the solder on that pin. Also, I see one pin is bent, which you should be able to straighten out with a needle nose pliers. If you're lucky, the bent pin is the one for the reverse switch.

 

[E-HP]

As far as I know, it has no self learning. The white cables are presumably "soft start", but the seller says that it has no soft start despite the wiring diagram in the ad. AliExpress....... I know.

It feels like a really weird "bug" if the reverse gear "switched around" by something getting too hot?

What do you think about this? I have tried to "act like" the two white wires are self learning and have swiftly tried to connect them and disconnect them to "reset" something. But no result.

I have the 60V/72V version, and the white wires are definitely not soft start. Not sure if they are self learning, but they made the motor do some odd behavior, similar to self learning, when connected and throttle applied. The cruise control option is also something odd and probably mislabeled. I haven't tried reverse because I don't need it. Mine has never gotten warm, but it's in open air, even when running high currents.

 

[tndr_1]

Okey. Hm. I have the same as you then. I thought it was Soft Start……. And yes. I noticed that weird behavior that you explained. Hmmmm

I will reconnect soon and try without the reverse switch and white wires.

 

[E-HP]

Okey. Hm. I have the same as you then. I thought it was Soft Start……. And yes. I noticed that weird behavior that you explained. Hmmmm

I will reconnect soon and try without the reverse switch and white wires.

If you get around to trying out the cruise control, let me know how it goes. For me, pressing momentarily does nothing when I let off the throttle. Holding it down seems to cut power, and if I'm still on the throttle and let off the button, I immediately get throttle power (which caught be off guard twice and almost flipped me over).

 

[tndr_1]

I found my main issue!! It was a fault cable in a over dimensioned cable shoe that was probably flickering in there. Hard to notice but I have fixed it.

BUT!

Now my vehicle goes FORWARD in lowered reverse speed. And BACKWARD in regular forward speed. It should be the other way. Heheh.

How weird is that??

My theory is that it got… reconfigured in some weird way when I had the white cables connected, and now I have to find the new HALL and PHASE cable combos again? The 36 combo thing u know.

Could that be possible?

 

[fechter]

Yes, that should work. It would be easier if the self-learn function worked. You might try that again first.

 

[tndr_1]

Thank you! Yes I will try the self-learn function first... Do you have any suggestion on how I should try that?

1. Raise wheels from ground
2. Connect white wires
3. Turn on controller
4. Turn throttle

Or any other routine?

 

[tndr_1]

Okey so I went ahead and took a shot at this now and I got positive results!

I did above procedure... and also connected the wires when the controllers was ON. I managed to make my wheels go in correct rotation now, which feels reeeeally nice! Thanks everyone for your help!

But now the question is... what are those white cables meant for? Is it self-learning? No ad for this controller has stated that.

 

[tndr_1]

hm....... Well.... my last post is correct... But when I was going to run it today it had forgotten the settings (I guess) and it had switched the rotation again.

Without white cables connected I have:
Forward gear = runs in reverse, high speed
Reverse gear = runs forward, low speed

It should be:
Forward gear = runs forward, high speed
Reverse gear = runs in reverse, low speed

Any idea on this? I am thankful for any help

 

[fechter]

Possibly the instructions for self-learn are incorrect or it uses a different wire?

You could swap a pair of phase wires and try the self-learn again. If it defaults, hopefully it will be in the desired direction.

 

[E-HP]

hm....... Well.... my last post is correct... But when I was going to run it today it had forgotten the settings (I guess) and it had switched the rotation again.

Without white cables connected I have:
Forward gear = runs in reverse, high speed
Reverse gear = runs forward, low speed

It should be:
Forward gear = runs forward, high speed
Reverse gear = runs in reverse, low speed

Any idea on this? I am thankful for any help

Mine ran backwards with the hall and phase wire colors matched up with my motor. I swapped the yellow and green phase wires. I'd start by swapping phase wires since it's easy.

 

[tndr_1]

Yeeeaahh but. It has worked perfectly before this. Just when I started to fiddle with the white wires (aliexpress ad say nothing about self learning).

Should I still switch around the phase wires?

 

[E-HP]

Yeeeaahh but. It has worked perfectly before this. Just when I started to fiddle with the white wires (aliexpress ad say nothing about self learning).

Should I still switch around the phase wires?

It's easy to try it. I'm not convinced that the white soft start wire is for self learning. Maybe it some sort of reset function.

 

[tndr_1]

Okey, so listen to this.

The seller I originally bought the ESC from has the incorrect wiring diagram, but the seller do not respond to my questions anymore. So I have tried to contact 3-4 different sellers with various results, and none of them has been able to give me an answer of the white cables.

Until this night.

I asked a new seller!! This seller sells the same ESC and has the same incorrect wiring diagram in the ad. So I started out by saying that I bought that ESC but the wiring says that WHITE WIRES are SOFT START, which I stated is incorrect and KINDLY asked about the function. She replied with the same incorrect wiring diagram! :lol:

BUT! Then I asked them to talk to the engineers because I still explained that the white wires are NOT soft start.

Then I got this reply:

:lol: I have waited so long for some answers about this controller!

And this was her instructions on how to use the self-learn wires:
Connect the white wire, turn on the power, the motor will move, and then unplug the white wire

 

[fechter]

Finally it makes sense. Good to have the right instructions.

 

[E-HP]

Finally it makes sense. Good to have the right instructions.

I have a feeling that the "cruise control" connector is actually a speed limit connector. It definitely doesn't invoke cruise, but seems to cut/lower the power when holding down the momentary switch I used to trigger it.

 

[tndr_1]

What colors are your ”Cruise” wires?

 

[E-HP]

What colors are your ”Cruise” wires?

Brown and black.

 

[tndr_1]

Oh, interesting. I use the BLACK and BROWN wires for reverse gear. If I connect those two together, the vehicle goes in reverse at reduced speed (almost as low as 200W)!