Motorized Bicycle racing in Tucson Arizona

[Lock]

You can pack a lot of power into a small package with gasoline.

Had to peek...

...now I'm hunting for Lithium borohydride batteries...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_borohydride
"As with all chemical-hydride-based energy carriers, lithium borohydride is very complex to recycle (i.e. recharge) and therefore suffers from a low energy conversion efficiency. While batteries such as lithium ion carry an energy density of up to 0.72 MJ/kg and 2.0 MJ/L, their DC to DC conversion efficiency can be as high as 90%. In view of the complexity of recycling mechanisms for metal hydrides,[3] such high energy conversion efficiencies are beyond practical reach."

Ahhh crap. Damn conversion efficiency... Reality is such a narrow space between our fantasies... why does it keep getting in the way???
:wink:
loCk

 

[enoob]

fark me check out polystyrene.

you mean all this time i coulda been driving a car powered by the garbage laying on the side of the road ?

 

[Lock]

hehe... looks like... and check out fat metabolism... wonder now watt those plastic surgeons do with the leftovers from liposuction? If I have a truck to go `round and collect the leftovers like spoiled grease from the restaurants, could I have a Lipo-powered hybrid ebike???
loKc

 

[dogman dan]

Kinda suprised how high anthracite ranks....

Just had some email with spookytooth. Ebikes welcome. 3 heats of 4 miles each. Sounds like a doable deal on a single charge for me. 30 min between heats would help though!

Seriously, I double dog dare ya'll to show up an beat me. Surely ya can ya bunch of wattheads. Just did a test run on the bike I'll bring, It easily sustains 33 mph with a 36.5 mph sprint when I need it. It even maintained 30 mph into 15 mph headwind just now. Not bad for a hightech bikes kit modified only by 48v battery. 56 tooth crank may help. Nobody really pedaling in the youtube flix.

 

[dogman dan]

Just a little more info on the race. There are three heats, but if you don't want to, you can only run in the main if you need to save some watthours.

All just for fun, so no eliminations other than crashing out or breaking down. Spooky did say bring good tires, the one who crashes least usually wins. :lol:

 

[AussieJester]

Just did a test run on the bike I'll bring, It easily sustains 33 mph with a 36.5 mph sprint when I need it. It even maintained 30 mph into 15 mph headwind just now.

I reckon that would have you running up front with the ICE boys long as you can maintain that looking at the track it looks like most of it you could do WOT so leckys advantage of faster acceleration wont come into play after the sart, those 49cc are pig slow off the mark you will likely have half length of the straight lead from the start if its 5 laps race i doubt they would run you down Dogman...make sure you get A HEAP of video when you go.

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

Got a helmet cam, but not a lot of memory in it. Oughta be able to get it downloaded into the laptop if there is time between heats. It might hold an entire heat in it.

From what I could see only one dude, winning, knew how to really corner. Last night I was only backing off to 27 mph on a typical 90 degree residential corner. I hope somebody with an x5 shows up to win all.

 

[Thud]

That looks like a total riot!
My bmx corners like a scorched snake & has devistated all the Leagal mopeds on my block. (there are a few outlaws running 50mph on some chineese scooters)

If I could only justify a 30 hour drive......still designing a pikes peak bike for 2011.

If they run a 30 minute main, I worry about range issues. 5 laps would be a whole lot more doable.

Please do this Dogman, have fun & let us live vicarously through you

Any one willing to lend a hub melting lipo pack to dog man for the event?? I bet we could gather some support if we call out to the general population.

 

[dogman dan]

Not sure how many laps, but a heat is 4 miles.

I can run practice and heat 1 on 36v, then uncork 48 for the next two heats and have plenty of power in the last race. Definitely going, I always love some knee dragging. The bike looks badass with the handlebars backwards as mustache drop bars. 400 miles away, my best friend lives in Tuscon, what else do I need? (besides a loaner 5303 and 72v) The motor I'm running has no halls, so it's limited to the 48v 22 amp controller it runs on. I might chicken out trying those turns at 40 mph anyway. What I have won't shame us any, faster than the speedo I saw in the videos.

 

[Lock]

The good ppl of Tucson REALLY, REALLY like to race... don't they???

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, the locals that have a car here are always driving either to there or chihuahua every weekend.

What I'm bringing.[attachment=0]Race bike 2010 spooky tooth.jpg[/attachment

Tried more drop on the bars but the ol farts gut got in the way. 56-13 gearing. Can pedal hard even at 35 mph. For a few hundred yards

 

[AussieJester]

Dogman

You needs some of the cruisers bars upside down, suck up the gut for a nice tuck and weeeeeee....

Something along these lines with 88v of lipo would be the shot IMO

I want to see old Safes face when he discovers someone has organised motored bicycle racing, something he has dreamt about for like 3-4 years now and done nothing to but talk about hehehe...Hes in Missouri is that along way from Tuscan? If he turned up he would be hard to beat according to him hes good for ~60mph

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

Yep, Safe would be likely to own it. Dude can corner too I think, he did even more gravity racing in the old days than I did. He's about 1000 miles away at least. But he may still be reading this. He just can't write anymore. I kinda miss twisting his tail.

Amazing how that gravity racing taught me to corner. We'd race down 10 miles of 10% grade, in the rain on 70's ten speeds. We used a no pedaling rule so if you braked you lost, simple as that. Soon we'd corner the whole ten miles and never touch em. If you blew a corner the cliff was about 1000 ' dropoff near the top. Good reason to apex the corner right.

I did try a lower drop on the bars, but at 50, the gut got in the way. Pedaling that 56 tooth is good for 5 mph more speed so I have to be able to pedal without kicking the wind outa me. Even with no practice I just did an 8 minuite 4 mile run in 20 mph winds.

But truly, I'm taking a lame bike to the race. I wish I was riding one of your bikes in it. Mabye next year I can get hold of somebodies battery and controller and try to melt my 5304 frock motor.

 

[Lock]

What I'm bringing.

Any quick and dirty aero mods that might add a mph or two or three?

 

[Lock]

 

[AussieJester]

Yep, Safe would be likely to own it. Dude can corner too I think, he did even more gravity racing in the old days than I did. He's about 1000 miles away at least. But he may still be reading this. He just can't write anymore. I kinda miss twisting his tail.

I believe you are correct DogMan i just checked over at Motoredbikes he is again active on his Halbach thread and low and behold he has a picture there of Luke/Thuds broached eno freewheel! of course he doesn't give credit to the ES members for coming up with it...Ironic, he is obviously reading the forum here but openly trashes it and the people on it in his motoredbike threads... Hiya Safe... jealous much someone has organised racing you can't compete at ?!?!

KiM

 

[Lock]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8562&start=15#p132294

OH and Leamcorp, your not going to go 35mph with a 48V set-up, the wind will hold you back.
Unless your talking freewheel speed off the ground test.

Perhaps not without aerodynamic benifits, but I know of a fared and socked Easy Racer that averaged over 35 mph with an Ecospeed drive system at last years ePower Challenge in Portland, Oregon.

Distance: 15 laps (29.7 miles),
time: 50 min,
30 sec., Avg.: 35.3 mph,
Max Speed: 42 mph,
energy used: 700 Wh,
Usage per mile: 24 Wh

fared and socked ?

 

[Thud]

Been researching Motored bike racing tonight.....these kooks are having a ton of fun down in Tucson. The Mussleman kart track is open several times a month to play on.
Also looks like the main event was 8 laps at an event in January, 7.2 miles. easy range for an e-bike

I also found a forum where Safe is a moderator.....
http://www.motorizedbicycleracing.com/

I can really see myself ponying up for one of these smokers & finding some like minded gents who would like to take turns running each into each other.....good clean fun

there are a bunch of videos here of guys just riding around the track
http://www.spookytoothcycles.com/forum

 

[liveforphysics]

But truly, I'm taking a lame bike to the race. I wish I was riding one of your bikes in it. Mabye next year I can get hold of somebodies battery and controller and try to melt my 5304 frock motor.

I will send you my LiPo battery and 2kw charge setup.

I've also got a couple methy controller kits I could assemble and send you one, but first I gotta finish up KiMs special controller.

I don't care if you end up blowing them all to ash if you race like it's life or death to win. Otherwise, just mail me back whatever is left.

My pack will do 50kw continous, so the only limiters will be the motor/controller heating.

PM me with your prefered shipper, and an address. They aught to love shipping 16 LiPo packs all hard wired together. lol

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks for the offer, but I don't know that I can get the motor repaired in time for this year. I'm just a little bit busy at the moment. I'm halfway through shingling my house, and 100F weather is coming pretty soon. I want to get off that roof before the desert heat arrives. So I don't have much time to repair the motor, lace it into 26" rim etc.

The aotema requires a no halls controller, All I have for it is 48v 22 amps.

And besides, untill I do get on the track, I really have no idea if I can corner it any faster than what I have right now. I do know how to corner, I do love to scare the shit outa myself, but I am 51 now. Balls have shrunk since my 20's-30's. I'm comfy cornering at 25-27 mph. I need to find a place safe to try some faster but not with the usual marbles on the street everywhere around here. I'm stoked for the race, and willl not ride like a pussy that never dragged a knee, but really, untill I get on that track I don't know if I can handle those corners any faster. The pix of the track look like a bicycle wouldn't take em at 35 mph. The most I can promise is to not embarass the Ebike comuntiy by riding the brakes. Looking at the video, It seems like the track is pretty tight and it's won or lost more in the willingness to drag a knee than in top end speed. Spooky says the same thing, that simply not crashing is how the race is won. All the slow bikes in the video are likely not so slow, but just brake at the apex of the turn instead of gassing it. Really few will do that even when told it's better. With less watts, I'll be able to WOT as I enter corners without fearing too much power too quick. I'm figuring to solder the shunt for 30 amps, which won't trip my ping bms. Hopefully I'll leave the corners at 30 mph. I'm just aiming to show em that ebikes aren't automatically slow as an I zip and ridden by a total dork. And have fun, not race like money is at stake.

Next time though, with some time to adjust to more power... And a feel for how the track rides.... A race is not really the time to learn to ride a new, more powerfull bike. It wouldn't help any for me to go out with more power than I'm used to and then crash out in turn 1.

But sincerely, thanks for the offer. The thought that you'd loan me stuff to melt really makes me feel good. But really, I doubt that I could make use of it even half the way you could without a lot more time to build the bike up and practice riding it. I wouldn't think putting 2-3000 watts on one of those wallbikes would be a very good idea. As it is, I'm not that pokey, 33 mph pedaling lightly. The bike is fairly light and I'm realllllly familiar with it's handling after 5500+ miles riding it. I think if I have any chance at all of doing well, it will be from being confident in the corners rather than raw power. This setup is not bad for that, the high frame allows pedaling all the way through corners so I can grab traction with both wheels through the apex. It's a nice feeling I wouldn't get with a high powered rear motor.

 

[liveforphysics]

low and behold he has a picture there of Luke/Thuds broached eno freewheel! of course he doesn't give credit to the ES members for coming up with it...Ironic

KiM

He directly hot-linked the image from where I'm hosting it. I can replace that image with anything I want, and it will show up on that URL... Something ghey prawn perhaps? LOL!

His thread would say, "Some good ideas" and then show some sick ghey pr0n picture.

lol!

 

[liveforphysics]

I'm figuring to solder the shunt for 30 amps, which won't trip my ping bms.

That just won't do my friend. Wont do at all.

Let me send you a battery that handles a 100amp draw like it's a tickle, and I will see if I can hack together a big controller for you after I get KiMs finished up.

I understand your reasons, and it does all sound practical and reasonable, but I want to see these gassers getting slaughtered by acceleration from an E-bike.

But... as far as winning the race goes, I do completely agree that its always who has the highest corner speed (aka, who is willing to lean the most), and acceleration will make a very minior difference in laptimes. What it will enable though, is the ability to make passing VERY easy. It's extremely tough to pass when you can't accelerate hard on comand, and requires just waiting for openings from other guys mistakes, and hopeing you don't error in your own line. Having monster acceleration on tap lets you make your own passing opertunities, and lets you gain position very easily, even though it would have minimal effects on average laptimes.

Fahgetabou that silly roof. Get that monster hub in there, or one of you other guys, lend this guy a monster hub, I will lend the uber-battery, and we can have a race entry for the event sponsored by the ES comunity. ES vs the gassers! That should be something we all can get some support behind!

And of course we gotta have lots of high quality video of our ES racer kickin ass out there.

I would recomend going no expense spared on tires. I don't know if they make super soft single-race compounds for bicycle tires or not, but if you can find something with a proper radiused sidewall, no tread, and a compound that feels like sticky silly-putty, you will have a major advantage. Or, dig for info to find out the tire combo used by whom ever won the event last year, and copy it.

 

[liveforphysics]

I'm convincing myself it would be worth shipping a bike down there and flying down to race.

From the looks of the track, a non-suspension BMX running that 20" wheel size that enables the fitment of a real motorcycle 3" supermotard tire would be an unstopable advantage.

As frocky as it would be, something I could perhaps throw together very quickly would a mark-cycle 602 wind hubmotor, then chop up a BMX and weld in drop-outs to accept the motor, run my 220amp kelly with my LiPo pack, run race-compound super-soft supermotard tires, and pre-heat the piss out of them with a big propane heater before starting. I think I could pretty safely dominate the event with a setup like that, but I really don't like the idea of what a hubmotor that weighs more than the whole rest of the bike would do to my handling... Tough decisions... Tough decisions....

Doing a BMX RC motor setup seems like it would take more time than is available before the race though... grrrr.... tough decisions!

 

[AussieJester]

He directly hot-linked the image from where I'm hosting it. I can replace that image with anything I want, and it will show up on that URL...

BWAHAHAHAHAA you MUST replace it may i suggest one of my Hyena photochopped images share the love... HAHAHA He has all but claimed it was his idea you link a pic like that you give credit to the owner of the pic IMHO.

KiM

EDIT: actually Luke go for something really against the rules of the forum might get Safe banned bwahahaha..hang on ill knock up one of Hyena in a "presenting position" as he takes it like a whore kill tw birds with one stome make Hyena famous and get safe banned from another forum

 

[dogman dan]

Now yer talking. Ship to my house and I'll bring it to the race. Or to Amberworlf if he is going. I know you'd take the trophy, and could haul ass on anything with about 2 laps of practice.

Best I can do to supply a frame is a vintage hardtail 26" MTB with a wore out rockshocks cheap fork. But there is a guy in town with a bike junkyard, I could provide a regular bmx frame if you want to just ship batteries and fly with the wheels? Fly to El Paso friday, build the bike, and drive to Tuscon Sat. It would be something cheap though, with rim brakes.

At one point I had my 24" 5304 on a 24" bmx but it handled for shit, I'd be terrified to race on it. There was something about that frames head angle that made pavement riding very strange feeling. If you wanted to use that motor, it has no halls. And no tire that doesn't suck. I don't have that frame anymore.

It's true, passing easily on the straights would be nice, rather than dodging em in the corners. Safer to leave em behind you. Nobody chickening out and flicking you off the track if you are outside. ( hopefully will have the balls to be inside)

From what I saw in video, one dude knows how to corner and wins, another does Ok but is way behind the winner. After that there seemed to be lots of space between riders. Hopefully I won't be in the back with LOTS of room around me.

I really do need to shingle my roof. No way I'm wanting to be up there by May. Too old to handle it all in a weekend. Never frame houses for a living, the bods destroyed now.