MUT strategies for ebikers

[crichman]

I'm pretty consipicuous on the local MUT part of my commute. I ride a recumbent with a fairing and a Bionx system. I've had occasional questions from other trail riders, and lots of compliments.

This MUT is busy at one end in particular, and poor behavior on the part of many trail users has always been an issue. There's a 15 mph speed limit, and in good weather police are known to hang out at key locations to enforce safe stops and reasonable speeds. My speeds are typically 17-20 mph where safe to do so. This is faster than most (especially uphill) but there are some roadies that buzz by at 23mph or so. The trail has always been posted "no motor vehicles", but I've never been hassled - until yesterday.

Yesterday, I noticed a roadie on the main uphill section looking back over his shoulder at me as I advanced on him. He wasn't going especially fast. He kept glancing over one shoulder and then the other as if he was strategizing in a race. I waited to pass him until traffic was clear, and then he started complaining "you know, engines are not permitted here. Sometimes there are police..."

Odd that this should happen the same week Maryland began requiring ebikes to be titled as mopeds. Mine is properly titled and bears the appropriate sticker. I don't know if he noticed it. I wonder if he'd been aware of the new law and waiting to pounce on ebike abusers of his trail. (I've only noticed one other, ever.) It was clear that the major issue was that I'd passed him, and he didn't like it.

I've imagined the conversations I might have with a local cop, but I hadn't imagined this conversation and found myself cought a bit short. The best thing to say was whatever would calm him enough to avoid his complaining to the police, but I'm really not sure what that could have been. I told him truthfully that I'd had a conversation with the MD park police chief about this some time back, and he wasn't concerned about e-assist bikes if the riders were pedaling them as bicycles (instead of riding them as motorcycles.) Of course, he knew I wouldn't have been passing him if I didn't have some electic help.

Because of the new law, when I do eventually get ticketed I expect this will appear as a motor vehicle violation, complete with points on my license. I'd like to do my best to postpone that day as long as possible. Any ideas? I've already made my install as stealthy as possible, and the recumbent bike itself is enough of a distraction that most folks won't notice the motor, but anyone who knows what they're looking for won't be fooled for a second. Any thoughts on how to salve the wounded ego of this roadie who just couldn't accept that he was passed going uphill by a guy with a mostly white beard on a recumbent --carrying luggage? I'm sure I'll see him again.

Charlie
Bacchetta Giro 26/Bionx PL350

 

[Ykick]

Of course, he knew I wouldn't have been passing him if I didn't have some electic help.

You answered your own question. Riding paths I must remind myself "it's just a bicycle" and thus perform that way. If somebody (roadie) can really get it, why pass em? There is nothing to be gained or benefit from "beating" somebody who rides at a high level. My attitude is - "be my guest, after you, by all means go ahead", etc. I'm talking about bike/ped paths - on car/truck roads, eff 'em, eat my dust!

 

[The fingers]

Like it or not, "Pedal or Not Diplomacy" helps gain acceptance from the plucky, migratory, elitistri pedalista johnincri; otherwise known as the oft-sighted Common Trail Lycra (of which the oddly somewhat less colourful male of the species has rightly and predictably earned the nickname "Captain Spandex"). :lol:

 

[atom1025]

When I share the trails I keep bike on low setting which never exceeds 17mph. I never run throttle when near the trail users. If I feel the need to pass I do so with pedal power only. I always watch my 6 to allow aggressive riders an easy pass. Sometimes stopping for a few minutes to allow certain riders time to get some distance between us. Or even stopping at the bottom of a hill till the coast is clear then climb it with throttle. Your on their playground regardless of what is/is not allowed. Riding stealthy is just as important as looking stealth.

When a roadie spots the hub and starts questioning the bike. I simply tell them the motor is for my daily commute to and from work. Then i joke that pedalling a 60 pound bike is a lot more exercize for me...I usually get a "cool" response and nothing more unless they are interested in e bikes.

So I suggest you ride much less conspicuous. Let the racers win.

 

[Cresh]

I ride the MUT from Virginia into DC every day. I have had a few nasty comments from the spandex crowd, but mostly i get nice comments from people who are genuinely interested. Here is how I try to avoid getting hassled. Don't pass anyone by blowing by them especially if its a narrow or crowded trail. I really try to set a good example. If I do pass someone, I always trail them for a bit to see how they are riding, and if they break any rules (like not coming to a stop at road crossings and not calling passes) then all bets are off and I pass them. If I get a comment about breaking rules I will then have a good response back. On the road, of course it's full throttle all the way!

2003 giant Yukon, Mac 7t, 52v

 

[Terry]

Because of the new law, when I do eventually get ticketed I expect this will appear as a motor vehicle violation, complete with points on my license. I'd like to do my best to postpone that day as long as possible. Any ideas?

It has already been said, but be inconspicuous as possible, your bike and your riding. I also ride Multi use trails and am illegal, SO I disguise my bike, always faux pedal, and I never pass a cyclist that is going fast, because they do notice. And as you may know people will rat you out. Wasnt there someone recently pulled over in maine where police said " there were reports of a bicycle going 30 MPH around here"
I live in fear of that, people reporting you to police not that you are bothering anyone ( I certainly hope you are not , not on your illegal bike) but I do fear the busy bodies who must report something because they do not like or understand it.
I

 

[dogman dan]

I am technically illegal on the Multi use paths too, and for that reason try to be very courteous to everybody. I may be the only one in town aware of my legal status though, including cops.

My problem is a bit different, very few bikes use the path, and walkers think ALL bikes shoud be banned from thier sidewalk. Most of them are happy if I slow to 5 mph to pass them, but some can never be happy with any bike sharing the trail.

 

[crichman]

So far we're all saying pretty much the same thing, and it matches what I already do. Except I never do faux pedalling. My Bionx is a 36v DD hub. I'm always doing real pedaling, typically just as hard as I do without an assist. I don't use the throttle, but the built-in torque sensor adds power in proportion to the power I'm providing. (Generally setting 1 of 4 in the morning which is mostly downhill, and generally setting 2 of 4 in the evening which is mostly uphill.) I don't think the motor is typically audible to others.

This guy had his hackles up before I even reached him. He noticed my lights and saw that I was gaining on him going uphill. Once I reached him, I waited courteously until the trail was clear, announced myself clearly, and passed him as moderately as could possibly have been done. I think he was pissed before I even reached him. (The only place I've ever seen those kinds of backward glances is on TV, from roadies in races.) He sped up to give me a hard time, and then fell away behind. I think the first offense was catching up to him and the second was doing the first while not being a roadie on a roadie ride. If I had continued behind him I don't think he would have been significantly less pissed -- he would have dropped back to check me out and done exactly the same thing.

In this specific case I don't know anything I could have said to him that would have made him less angry, but I'm sure looking for suggestions.

Charlie

 

[Ykick]

You can't control somebody's anger and that's why in the motorcycle world when somebody in a car wants to race, just do it and get the hell outta there. For your situation I usually wait until a long hill to make my move and leave 'em behind bitching like an idiot to the trees and squirrels.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, you are a "cheater" and he'll hate you. On a street where I'm legal, I like to toy with em by not passing them. They pedal like hell, thinking I can't possibly keep up with panniers all over the bike, and my big coat a flapping in the wind. So instead of passing the overage wannabe racer, toy with him by letting him gain a little, think he's doing it, then catch up again. Push the a hole 5-6 miles, then when he's having a heart attack, pass him. Whistle while you pass, showing him you aren't out of breath. Half of em won't realise you have a motor. :lol:

This is done with the jackass that has laughed at you, made some kind of comment, etc.

But on the trail where you are supposed to not be motorized, lay low and be nice.

 

[johnnyd]

Dogman, I laughed out loud at your strategy. I've done the same thing on my big ol' heavy tandem. They keep looking back and they can't seem to pull away from that guy sitting upright with the paniers, then on the big hill I come by ringing my bell saying damn this is a steep hill!

 

[deardancer3]

If you are runnning a normal Bionx you are probably legal if that trail was funded by any money from US DSOT. (TEA LU 21 and other laws.)

Basically, if the trail is assisted by federal funding any as a "transportation trail", rather than a recreational trail that just goes around a large park pond, your legal low powered electric assist bike is MUT l legal as long as a seperate local law has not been passed; these EBIKES are legally considered bicyles, not motorized vehicles. (usually 750 w max, 20mph electric max, 2 or 3 wheels, working pedals)

dont bother debating the other trail users, become familiar with the law, be a courteous rider, carry a copy of the law to show law enforcement.

A few cities have passed laws makiing legal low power assist ebikes illegal on their MUT, mainly in Arizona and Boulder, CO.

check local laws before getting too sure though.

http://www.electricassistbike.com/Federal-Law

However, i have found that using the trails for rapid travel during afternoon "Rush" hour not worth the hassle unless avoiding a bad section of road.
Mornings, trails are pretty much unused by recrational users, just commuter bikes.

I frequently had problem interactions with MUT users about my ebike. Explaining the law just made them mad. BUT the fact is if money was used to build the trail from Department of Transportation, then transportation users (EBIKES) get to use their share of what was funded.

But check local laws, because they are allowed to specifically exclude ebikes if they wish.

d

edit

add link to similar discusion on other forum

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=89451

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, but it varies from state to state, in my state, I'm a moped, a motor vehicle. But I get away with riding bike trails because nobody, not even cops, knows the law yet.

 

[Cresh]

I think about this a lot because I ride on the local MUT every day. It's the safest route for me. Got me thinking that all the years I have been bike commuting, motorized and non motorized, I have never seen nor heard about any accidents involving ebikes or any motorized vehicles on the MUT. however, I have witnessed countless accidents with non motorized bikes hitting other bikes, pedestrians, and just crashing because of speed. Not much you can say to someone who has already made up their mind before they even meet you.

2003 giant Yukon, Mac 7t, 52v

 

[John in CR]

A motor vehicle has a defined legal definition. A motorized vehicle is anything with a motor. Find out what the rules really are for using your MUT. Refer to it always as a "mobility device" to those questioning it, and they'll have a very difficult time excluding you. It sounds like you're riding responsibly with courtesy for others, which is the most important thing.

 

[nechaus]

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[Ykick]

...

 

[mythprod]

Barring the occasional trail block by riders / walkers who insist on taking up the entire trail, I'm very laid-back on my riding style, ebike or no. Lawful or no, I treat myself as a tourist on the trail rather than someone who "belongs" on it and am courteous to others and give way, try not to pass too quickly, etc. Riding the ebike is fun, but my main purpose is to save gas and be green, so I'm not in it to race anyone or make them feel like poo. I have respect for the spandex crowd. Your guy just sounded like he's getting his ego hurt, I bet he's secretly wishing he had an ebike like yours. If that happens again tell him to shop around online for a kit and battery so he doesn't have to be pissed off at everyone who passes him. :wink:

I started out my commute using the trails to work because it's safer and was less intimidating. Later I found the trail taking me 40-45 minutes to get to work with more bumps, starts and stops (harder on the bike) than I'd liked. After a couple of weeks of this I started taking the road. It's much straighter, I can get up to and stay at speed (love the speed ) and get to work in about 30 minutes, only about 7 to 10 minutes slower than by car (13-14 miles or so). I treat myself like a motorcycle traffic-wise, when I stop at a stoplight I just stop behind the car I was following rather than slip up the side to the front of the line.

Just this week I've had several spandex bikers passing me as much as they could while I was stopped at a light and I would pass them again when we all got going again. I do feel a twinge of remorse sometimes when we're ascending a steep hill and the poor guy is pumping those legs to keep going and I blow by him very quickly. If I were on the trail I wouldn't pass them very quickly but on the road I'm full throttle, remorse or no. I love getting to and from work so quickly on my ebike!

 

[tofuuu]

Roadies are always hostile. I don't think ive ever seen one stick to shared path speed limits or overtake safely. When you actually get the time and stop at the lights and they catch up they will always take cheap shots at you + your bike as well. "cheater, looks pretty heavy, etc etc"

I just let them pass and tailgate them and when they look back I have my unimpressed face on DD