Really interesting thread. The number of e-bikes in socal has exploded. I've been to several beach areas (Newport, Dana Point, Doheny) and there is a plethora of "e" activity, but not one DIY in sight. I asked my LBS (big shop with two locations) owner, a very progressive individual, if he considered selling and or installing kits, but he was emphatically against it. Too much liability, but perhaps because this area is so litigious. BTW, I heard that someone on a "high speed e-bike" killed a pedestrian on a bike path, took off and may not have been apprehended. A couple of these and we'll all be in trouble. This is the major reason I scrapped my 1500w errand bike and probably will stick to Class 1 or 2 from now on (while pretty much confining my riding to off road).
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- Thread starter E-HP
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circuitsmith
10 W
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- Feb 27, 2008
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E-HP said:
I've been running a BBS02 for a year and a half. 52v 11AH battery. Schwinn 26" MTB.
Tops out somewhere over 30 mph. I weigh ~160lb.
East coast (Wash. DC) city bike.
Important for me is ability to carry up a flight of stairs.
Rare SurRon sighting today riding on the bike path. Second one I've seen, ever, but the last one looked like it was painted with a spray can. He wasn't going crazy fast, and riding pretty responsibly when approaching other bikes or pedestrians. Looked fun, but no pedals, so a little out of place. I bet it's a blast to ride off road though with those knobbies. 
How often do you ride, most importantly how far (miles), the best I could ever do for wh/mile is 35wh/mile @ 572wh thats not much cruising time, but yeah I weigh 1.5 times you. Carrying up a flight of stairs, that 11ah makes sense, happy cruising.
circuitsmith said:
circuitsmith
10 W
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- Feb 27, 2008
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I was riding to work 5 miles round trip until I retired end of April, plus misc rides to stores, local trails etc. 20 miles max.calab said:
Now 2-3 recreational rides a week, again 20 miles max.
I figure I have at least 50 miles of leisurely riding range, cruising at 15 mph.
I test rode a heavier fat tire bike with a bigger battery.
Didn't like that it no longer felt like a bicycle.
Hillhater
100 TW
E-HP said:
Small wheel diameter + pot hole , rock or ridge = faceplant !
26” mtb would not even notice !
Even on city sidewalks, you have to keep eyes peeled for small obsticals
Helmet is vital !
I changed my daily riding routine, breaking it up with a 15 mile ride at lunchtime, then another during the late afternoon. The last two days, I've left for my afternoon ride at around 5, and noticed that between 5 and 6, there's an ebike rush hour on the bike/walking path. Not many walkers during that time, but a ton of commuting e-vehicles. I saw 5 DIY rear hub bikes, that are usually rare as hen's teeth, 4 one wheels (one with a huge backpack battery), 7 or 8 stand up scooters, and a huge variety of factory bikes. Of the factory bikes, the Radrunner seems to be very popular, maybe because they are step through, and I saw 5 or 6 of those, in addition to the caravan of cargo bikes, each with one or two kids on board. The commuter crowd is much larger than the recreational crowd I see during my lunch ride, so maybe a better cross section (I did see a Sur ron during lunch, and a pretty fast one wheel and scooter hotrodding around).
Most impressive though was a regular bike rider (lycra) that was going so fast on the street, I thought he was an ebike at first. Riding more closely behind, I could see he had no assist, but was keeping a 25mph pace, for over a mile! After that, he cruised at around 20 mph. He could probably pass most of the factory ebikes if he were on the bike path. Almost made me feel like getting on my pedal bike; but nah.
Most impressive though was a regular bike rider (lycra) that was going so fast on the street, I thought he was an ebike at first. Riding more closely behind, I could see he had no assist, but was keeping a 25mph pace, for over a mile! After that, he cruised at around 20 mph. He could probably pass most of the factory ebikes if he were on the bike path. Almost made me feel like getting on my pedal bike; but nah.
As above, great thread; it would be really interesting if members would post their locations (even if just general area) so we could see what seems to be the characteristics in different areas. Another thing that I noticed in an affluent area of socal was a proliferation of Super 73's ridden (one or two up) by group(s) of 10 - 14 year old kids.
ebuilder said:
Well I wouldn't do lycra. That route would require too much of an investment. For pedaling, I still have my unconverted full suspension bike, which has been neglected, but would only take an hour to tune up. I can't bring myself to convert it because of the components and how it rides; plus, I have lots of trails, some within walking distance, so it would feel like a sin.
I think I'm about at whatever comes after aging. Aged? I love ebikes, and I started researching them around when I started to research motorcycles to see what was out there, after not riding them while the kids were growing up. Started looking at big sport bikes, since my wife refuses to be passenger on a small bike. A few years after starting ebiking, now I'm researching electric motorcycles, since realistically at our age, we'd only be taking shorter day trips, LOL.
I do like getting my exercise while riding an ebike. I can choose how much effort I want to provide. That's really just one dimension, since there are a lot of options for exercise, and lots of other benefits to being out in the open air. I think I've always found that riding around outside on two wheels, especially powered, as therapeutic. Ebikes provide that, motorcycles do. Riding two up on a motorcycle of some sort, is the best option so my wife could tag along. Even if it's just riding down to Denny''s, or across the bay for lunch. She used to be an avid mountain biker, but an ebike probably wouldn't be the safest option for her. My 3 or 4 encounters with the electric Harley have left a positive impression. I don't need high double digits, and I bet the torque delivery is great. Passenger seating, not so much.
I saw a guy at the intersection the other day that had two Easter hams for thighs. I didn't pace him or anything. I figured what's the point. We're both riding performance bikes, just with different power plants. I remember when riding my motorcycles, the smaller bikes always wanted to race, but liter plus riders just give each other the nod. Nobody wants to die that day.
On another note; I noticed that the higher performance stand up scooters and one wheels are at least using safety gear. Always full faced helmets, and usually body armor of some sort for the 40mph+ ones. There's also the 30mph scooters, and even they have a little better helmet coverage than typical bicycle helmets. Not may riding around fast in a baseball cap and shorts.
On another note; I noticed that the higher performance stand up scooters and one wheels are at least using safety gear. Always full faced helmets, and usually body armor of some sort for the 40mph+ ones. There's also the 30mph scooters, and even they have a little better helmet coverage than typical bicycle helmets. Not may riding around fast in a baseball cap and shorts.
Just counting from memory, it looks like the Radrunner 2 is the most popular single model of ebike around my area. I see a lot of people riding one up, but because of the optional passenger seat, I see a lot riding with passengers. Specifically, it looks like the bike of choice for parents commuting with one kid, usually a little older on the passenger seat, but some smaller riding in a child seat. For parents toting two kids, the mid drive cargo bikes are still king (I saw a BBSHD DIY cargo bike for the first time), but the Radrunner has the advantage of better maneuverability. Previously it seemed like the Aventon bikes made up the lion's share, but the Rad bikes are really popular.
Aside from just ebikes, I saw this EWV (electric water vehicle, LOL) on be bay the other day. It was choppy, so this guy was having a hard time getting on it and up to speed. I think he must have run down his battery a bit, because he really didn't get up to the higher cruising speeds, once he didn't get it going. Once these things get about a foot above the water, they really take off since the water resistance goes way down. This guy only got a few inches above the water, so couldn't get up to the ~25 MPH top speeds.
www.mackiteboarding.com
Aside from just ebikes, I saw this EWV (electric water vehicle, LOL) on be bay the other day. It was choppy, so this guy was having a hard time getting on it and up to speed. I think he must have run down his battery a bit, because he really didn't get up to the higher cruising speeds, once he didn't get it going. Once these things get about a foot above the water, they really take off since the water resistance goes way down. This guy only got a few inches above the water, so couldn't get up to the ~25 MPH top speeds.
Waydoo FLYER ONE+ eFoil - EPP
The next level eFoiling thrill with the lighter, but more rigid re-engineered boards.
www.mackiteboarding.com
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FWIW, some localities' laws specifically distinguish between a "motorized bicycle" and an electrically-assisted one, making the sign "unnecessary" because it doesn't specifically exclude the electric one, only the motorized one.
While riding through downtown Berkeley this morning, I spotted out of the corner of my eye a bunch of bikes approaching. I turned to look, and there were 6 black bikes, all the same. The riders, also in black, looked all the same as well. It was the po-po on ebikes. They were hard tails with front suspension, triangle battery bag, and what I'm guessing were 750W geared hubs. I moved my legs around when the light changed and I took off; they didn't pay any attention. LOL.
I think there's a third (fourth?) generation of ebikers out on the trails now. It's interesting that the age range of riders is so broad, and represented by a very diverse population of riders. I say ebikes, but it's really personal e-vehicles of all kinds. The younger riders (some under 10) tend to be on the scooters. Middle age parents use cargo bikes; parents of smaller stature on smaller cargo bikes like the Rad step throughs. There's been a fairly large contingent of late 70s ebikers, mostly women, that tear around the bike path on their step through mid drives, but lately I'm seeing seniors in their 80s riding the front hub trikes. Plus more DIY bikes are on the trail and not just new ones. I saw two Currie drive ebikes in the last couple of weeks, and they looked vintage.
I can't think of any other activity that is developing such a diverse mix of people and age range; and a lot of kids that only know of commuting to daycare on an ebike. I think it will really explode this spring/summer.
EDIT: watching a recording of the NASCAR Xfinity race at Fontana and saw a convoy of these electric recliners on the infield, LOL
I can't think of any other activity that is developing such a diverse mix of people and age range; and a lot of kids that only know of commuting to daycare on an ebike. I think it will really explode this spring/summer.
EDIT: watching a recording of the NASCAR Xfinity race at Fontana and saw a convoy of these electric recliners on the infield, LOL
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Although the majority of ebikes I see are factory, I'm starting to see more DIY ebikes, and not just the more common hub motor, or bafang mid drive. While rolling up to the bike path, a bike crossed in front of me. I was thinking, is that an ebike, but didn't see a battery, but suspected there could be one in the rack bag. What caught my eye was what I first thought like a rear brake disc, but it looked too big, maybe 10 or 11 inches. As I got closer I could see it was aluminum, so not a disc. I made a right onto the path, riding behind the mystery bike, but as I got closer, and to the left, I spotted a small outrunner motor, mounted on the left chainstay. Upon closer inspection, I could see the belt, going down to the "disk", which was really big pulley. The motor was silent, and I'm sure it doesn't provide much power, but I think it still be fun to ride on the flat bike path; and this person looked like they were leisurely enjoying themselves too.
The fatter tire front hub tricycles also seem to be increasing in number. Not by a lot, but I see between 2 and 3 a day. None of them are DIY/kits so far.
Another general observation is that the people riding the faster class 3 ebikes seem to ride them pretty fast even when there's a lot of people using the bike/walking path. I'll open it up and ride fast when there's nobody around, but when it's busy, I'll ride a couple miles faster than everyone else when passing, and generally keep it pretty slow; slower than pedal bike speeds. These guys (actually both men and women) are going to hurt someone at some point, weaving in and out of foot traffic, like the people are pilons. I just don't want more laws, or enforcement, given I live in a state that I'm surprised doesn't fine you for greenhouse gas emissions if you fart.
The seasonal trend seems to be that the stand up scooter traffic is way way up; the sunny weather brought out triple the number of scooters and riding near the college campus will convince you that they're everywhere. And the one wheel/unicycles are growing in number too. I see 4 or 5 a day on average. I was talking to a guy when I was picking up some lunch, and he was telling me about his, and few others that are around. Apparently the super fast one that I've seen with the guy with a huge backpack, isn't just carrying around a battery. The guy I was talking to knows him and told me he's doing door-dash with it, LOL.
The fatter tire front hub tricycles also seem to be increasing in number. Not by a lot, but I see between 2 and 3 a day. None of them are DIY/kits so far.
Another general observation is that the people riding the faster class 3 ebikes seem to ride them pretty fast even when there's a lot of people using the bike/walking path. I'll open it up and ride fast when there's nobody around, but when it's busy, I'll ride a couple miles faster than everyone else when passing, and generally keep it pretty slow; slower than pedal bike speeds. These guys (actually both men and women) are going to hurt someone at some point, weaving in and out of foot traffic, like the people are pilons. I just don't want more laws, or enforcement, given I live in a state that I'm surprised doesn't fine you for greenhouse gas emissions if you fart.
The seasonal trend seems to be that the stand up scooter traffic is way way up; the sunny weather brought out triple the number of scooters and riding near the college campus will convince you that they're everywhere. And the one wheel/unicycles are growing in number too. I see 4 or 5 a day on average. I was talking to a guy when I was picking up some lunch, and he was telling me about his, and few others that are around. Apparently the super fast one that I've seen with the guy with a huge backpack, isn't just carrying around a battery. The guy I was talking to knows him and told me he's doing door-dash with it, LOL.
I thought I'd seen everything, but while driving back home on the freeway this weekend, I see this guy on the shoulder, pedaling as fast as he can on one of those Costco Jetson Bolt "ebikes". The cars were averaging around 70mph on that stretch of road, so no time to take a pic.
Way wide, even the walmart trikes are wide, we all need wider pathways!
You cant even get those wide bikes through the commuter train door where I live, nor can you put those bikes on a bus bike rack.
A ladies Townie would work well for your friend. They must have 29" wheels now with 2.10 tires, I like how on my Kona the 29x2.25 tires with XCT fork make the cracks and root bumps easier to deal with on a rigid frame. Then get a suspension seat post and the ride smoothens out even more. A small Bafang geared, and say 1200 watts max for the hills and your friend is golden. Grins all around.
The newest joke I see on the pathways are the sit down electric scooters, the best one could hope for is that they are off the couch.
You cant even get those wide bikes through the commuter train door where I live, nor can you put those bikes on a bus bike rack.
A ladies Townie would work well for your friend. They must have 29" wheels now with 2.10 tires, I like how on my Kona the 29x2.25 tires with XCT fork make the cracks and root bumps easier to deal with on a rigid frame. Then get a suspension seat post and the ride smoothens out even more. A small Bafang geared, and say 1200 watts max for the hills and your friend is golden. Grins all around.
The newest joke I see on the pathways are the sit down electric scooters, the best one could hope for is that they are off the couch.
Lately I'm noticing a class system developing when it comes to factory ebike riders. It's not universal. The class 1 and class 2 ebikes don't seem to care, but some/a lot of the class 3 ebikers appear to be a different breed. The class 1 and class 2 just ride and look happy to have some e-assist. Most are courteous when sharing the trail, slowing down when there are pedestrians or parents walking along with their young ones on their pedal bikes with training wheels. I slow down to between 5-10mph when around the folks walking or riding at a slower leisurely pace.
The class 3 ebikers seem to be more business. They always look like there's somewhere they needed to be an hour ago. Common courtesy is marginal, and I've seen them zip by at high speeds passing blind people walking on the trail with their canes, or too close to the little ones on their bikes and trikes. If any class is going to give ebiking a bad name, it's the class 3 owners, even more than the DIYers, mainly due to attitude.
I got a little bent when I saw one the other day, pass dangerously close to an old couple walking on the trail. I decided to detour off on a side street and get back on the trail ahead of him. I was riding at my normal 20mph speed as he was coming up from behind, so I gave it a little throttle to stay just out of reach. Anyway, the funnest or funniest thing you can do when around a class 3 ebike is to go 29 mph in front of them, LOL. They start pedaling like crazy trying to catch up and pass, especially if you toy with them and slow down a bit to let them gain some ground, before going around a bend and pulling another 50 yards ahead of them. Do that for a couple of miles, and it's loads of fun, and good exercise for them. Everyone benefits. Of course, not all of the class 3ers are all alike. My neighbor has had a class 3 bike for years for commuting and doesn't have the "attitude", like a lot of the newer ebikers have. I wonder if this is the case elsewhere.
The class 3 ebikers seem to be more business. They always look like there's somewhere they needed to be an hour ago. Common courtesy is marginal, and I've seen them zip by at high speeds passing blind people walking on the trail with their canes, or too close to the little ones on their bikes and trikes. If any class is going to give ebiking a bad name, it's the class 3 owners, even more than the DIYers, mainly due to attitude.
I got a little bent when I saw one the other day, pass dangerously close to an old couple walking on the trail. I decided to detour off on a side street and get back on the trail ahead of him. I was riding at my normal 20mph speed as he was coming up from behind, so I gave it a little throttle to stay just out of reach. Anyway, the funnest or funniest thing you can do when around a class 3 ebike is to go 29 mph in front of them, LOL. They start pedaling like crazy trying to catch up and pass, especially if you toy with them and slow down a bit to let them gain some ground, before going around a bend and pulling another 50 yards ahead of them. Do that for a couple of miles, and it's loads of fun, and good exercise for them. Everyone benefits. Of course, not all of the class 3ers are all alike. My neighbor has had a class 3 bike for years for commuting and doesn't have the "attitude", like a lot of the newer ebikers have. I wonder if this is the case elsewhere.
2Phast2Delirious
100 W
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- Mar 16, 2022
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- 105
I'm not sure whether the people in the forum use these terminology here.I've had people constantly try to race me on my bikes that typically hit about 40mph when cruising at 25-30 while pedaling..
I feel bad for them at this point.
Semi-Street Legal (Class 2) = 750w (max) motor, 48-52v 1500w/2000w max controller (2000w for heavier riders).
Top speed varies from 28 to 38 mph based on weight of rider. If you get pulled over; at least the motor which is the only item that is visible, indicates that it is a 750w. Battery placement and a 750w (or less) motor is essential to all of my semi-street legal builds.
Sleeper = While the ebike may seem stock, it can be powered by at least 60v+1500w, +40mph, and up to 72v/12k gigawatts.
Personally, I have a few sleepers. This build is sort of on the unethical side, particularly if you intend to try to pass for a 750w street-legal ebike when you're pulled over.
Additionally, I personally don't like builds that shout "I'm a DIYer" or "Nerd Alert!" You guys must have a phrase for that; Disorganized wiring, duct tape, exposed batteries, etc.
Please feel free to modify and officialize it.
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About right!
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I consider myself an ethical sleeper rider. Bike may go all the way up to 60mph, but on a trail i'll slow down to bike speeds and pedal it around people, only bumping the throttle here and there. On a road with a bike lane, i'll do 25-30 while pedaling. When there's no bike lane, i'm probably riding it like a motorcycle at +1mph of car speed.
The ethical sleeper doesn't want attention or to get busted. They will hot rod the bike only in situations where it doesn't disrupt social harmony.
It's like the ebiker equivalent of the responsible sports car enjoyer.
Related:
One edit:
I consider myself an ethical sleeper rider. Bike may go all the way up to 60mph, but on a trail i'll slow down to bike speeds and pedal it around people, only bumping the throttle here and there. On a road with a bike lane, i'll do 25-30 while pedaling. When there's no bike lane, i'm probably riding it like a motorcycle at +1mph of car speed.
The ethical sleeper doesn't want attention or to get busted. They will hot rod the bike only in situations where it doesn't disrupt social harmony.
It's like the ebiker equivalent of the responsible sports car enjoyer.
Related:
I like that category. I'm in the same boat. The bike is capable of going fast, but I don't, and speed is only a byproduct my desire for high torque within the full range that I do ride. Shiftng the torque curve to higher RPMs requires you to go up in voltage, which mean top speed goes up, even if I never use it. I think it might go 55 with field weakening, but that's based on the one time I tried riding it fast; I shut it down at 50, but it was still accelerating with a decent pull. I will ride at 35 if the traffic is moving at that speed, but only out of necessity.
