MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3
- Thread starter Allex
- Start date
teslanv
1 MW
For those of you Wondering what Winding option to choose (What Kv)
Here are a couple charts that should help you decide:
The First Chart shows "Unloaded Speed", based on four different winding options, and four different Tire Diameters.
View attachment 1
The second chart shows Acceleration (Lbs of thrust), based on the same four winding options and tire diameters.
Note that Maximum Thrust is based not on winding option, but on tire diameter alone, since each winding will have a different Maximum current handling threshold. In fact all Winding options net the same maximum thrust for a given tire diameter.
I have to give credit for Teklektik for the original speed chart:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65323&start=75#p996431
Here are a couple charts that should help you decide:
The First Chart shows "Unloaded Speed", based on four different winding options, and four different Tire Diameters.
View attachment 1
The second chart shows Acceleration (Lbs of thrust), based on the same four winding options and tire diameters.
Note that Maximum Thrust is based not on winding option, but on tire diameter alone, since each winding will have a different Maximum current handling threshold. In fact all Winding options net the same maximum thrust for a given tire diameter.
I have to give credit for Teklektik for the original speed chart:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65323&start=75#p996431
arkmundi
10 MW
Thanks for posting. Don't know if I'm reading this right, but it seems that for a given tire diameter generating the same maximum thrust (the intersection of the black lines up to the coloured lines over), the different winding require more phase amps going from 6T to 3T.teslanv said:
The limitation being that there is also a lower maximum current before over-heating. If that's the case, this chart illustrates the choice of winding too, and not just tire size.Question: what is the source of the chart & data?
Is it experimental data, actual measured thrust for the different windings and wheel sizes?The reading of it suggests that the higher windings may be preferable because you get more thrust for a given current. Again the torque argument. I prefer hard data. And that once you have a given wind motor, match it with a controller that will allow the maximum safe current and no more. Best.
John in CR
100 TW
Teslanv,
It's nice to see some sanity regarding phase current limits for the motors. I think many may misinterpret the second graph. If there was a way to clear out the lines extending beyond the recommendations, then it would be clear as a bell.
It's nice to see some sanity regarding phase current limits for the motors. I think many may misinterpret the second graph. If there was a way to clear out the lines extending beyond the recommendations, then it would be clear as a bell.
windtrader
1 kW
Thanks for posting the chart. Puts more detail to the principles. Faster rpm and smaller wheel generates more acceleration. More volts make the motor turn faster, the bigger the tire the faster the potential top speed. Take some percentage for overall efficiency and good way to estimate top speed of your config. nice.
teslanv
1 MW
John in CR said:
Excellent suggestion, John.
Here is the amended Torque Chart.
Arkmundi,
These charts are based on Mathmatical calculations, but derived from Actual Kv Testing and Resistence measurements. The Maximum Current threshold is my "best guess" as to what will overheat the windings, but the relationship between windings is proportional. So if the true Overheat Threshold for the 6T winding is actually 80A, then the 3T would be 160A.
arkmundi
10 MW
Thanks for the clarification. And my conclusion above - please comment. As I've been toying with the offer you made to trade to a different wind from my 5T. Mulling it over, and may yet conclude that I want to keep my 5T. High regards!teslanv said:
teslanv
1 MW
arkmundi said:
I would say you should pick your Winding and Tire sized based on your planned voltage and desired top speed, and then Match the controller to suit the winding you choose.
if your goal is "MAXIMUM TOP SPEED", then the only logical winding choice is the 3T. If, however your needs are more modest, and you want to run a smaller controller and phase wires, then a slower wind motor may be appropriate.
arkmundi
10 MW
Am I reading the chart right, is my conclusion OK - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63142&start=875#p996746? Yes weighing all the factors and these charts may help considerably.
teslanv
1 MW
arkmundi said:
Yes, the 3T winding will require precisely twice as much phase current to produce the same torque as the 6T winding for a given tire diameter.
arkmundi
10 MW
Muchos gracias. Will be keeping the 5T then, though appreciate the awesome support & service offering a trade-in.teslanv said:
good job on the charts.
don't forget the phase wires MUST be upgraded for the 3T and for the 4T they SHOULD. I had success to fit 4mm² in the stock axle which should also be ok for the 3T, but if someone is going to push it even harder it reqires a custom axle (which also will withstand higher torque)
don't forget the phase wires MUST be upgraded for the 3T and for the 4T they SHOULD. I had success to fit 4mm² in the stock axle which should also be ok for the 3T, but if someone is going to push it even harder it reqires a custom axle (which also will withstand higher torque)
chucho
1 kW
madin88 said:
Do you have a link to buy that wires you used
teslanv
1 MW
New and improved Speed and Thrust Charts.
arkmundi
10 MW
Simple, beautiful and informative charts. I see that with a 5T motor on a 26" wheel, 72V nominal (82V) 5C battery, and a controller delivering 60 amps phase, that I'm right in the middle of that chart on the green line. So not stressful for the motor, likely not to over-heat and likely to get me my 45 mph. Please tell me I'm wrong if I am. Otherwise, I'll be ordering up a Kelly KEB72301X,24V-72V,150A,3.0KW,E-bike Brushless Controller and begin to do a build.
teslanv
1 MW
Note that the speed chart is UNLOADED.arkmundi said:
You will lose between 10%-20% of that speed with loading and aero drag.
arkmundi
10 MW
Gotcha. I'm doing a dual-wheel build, with my Heinzmann 500 watt motor on the front. So my old rig - the Gitchee, only with a new rear wheel and the MXUS on it. That Heinzmann is the classic geared motor and a real work-horse. So a boost for my initial acceleration and perhaps more. Seems I have a hope of 45 mph, my optimum speed for this build. I'm looking to cut the commute time between Worcester and Clinton where I have my pond-side property - hoping to build a small house there. Over time, I'll upgrade to a better frame. Thanks.teslanv said:
chucho said:madin88 said:
Do you have a link to buy that wires you used
I used "ÖLFLEX® HEAT 205 SC"
from here: http://www.conrad.at/ce/de/product/...x-4-mm-Schwarz-LappKabel-0087001-1-m?ref=list
they have 4mm² with only 3,3mm diameter and can withstand temperature up to 200°C.
GiantEV
100 W
I got my MXUS 3000 v2 3T motor running today. I was running a HS3548 before and the MXUS blows it out of the water. No more overheating, acceleration is improved and speed is great, especially considering that I'm running a 20" wheel. If you're curious I have more details in my build thread in my signature.
John in CR
100 TW
GiantEV said:
Now we're talking about something that can take some ramped up power. Let me know the phase-to-phase resistance and actual Kv, and I lay out a simple but effective ventilation approach, and give you an idea of how much you can really lean on the current to show these guys the performance of a reasonably speedy wind combined with a smallish wheel.
GiantEV
100 W
John in CR said:
John,
I'll try to get the numbers for you in the next couple of days. The only problem is that my Mini-E is already maxed out at 3500 Watts. If I crank it up to 4kW the controller overheats pretty quick. This motor is begging for a Max-E or other big controller. Even beating on it for 6 miles straight the highest I got the temps of the motor was 175F, and this is on a heavy bike with a heavy rider. I think madin88 is getting a 3T motor in a 20" wheel too, and has a Max-E, as well as upgraded phase wires, so he should be able to push it a lot harder.
teslanv
1 MW
I should have my 3T V2 in a week or two, and will post measurements of stock phase resistance then. I have a feeling the stock phase wires will be going bye bye, after a few test rides, though.
chucho
1 kW
Any small cheap screen to read the KTY83-110 temp sensor of the motor with out CA
Madin thank you for the wire link :wink:
Madin thank you for the wire link :wink:
diggler
1 kW
I really like those charts.
It would be nice to see a 28" wheel on there as well. For us using this motor with fat tire bike. (I can just guesstimate though 8) )
Anybody know where these wires can be found in the U.S.?
I tried to order them but couldn't change the country. :lol:
Any suggestions?
I thought I might as well upgrade the phase wires wile I'm waiting for this.
http://www.ebikekit.com/kit-components/small-parts/freewheels/freewheel-spacer-for-1-speed/
I'm playing around with dishing and freewheel spacers to get my freewheel back to where it was or close so I can use all the gears.
Also I would like to use both of the Doc's TA for this build but I may only be able to use one on the disc side. Then maybe a lock nut on the right side. Does anybody think this is a bad idea? I will probably tryout pushing 8kw at some point.
Here is a picture of my issues. Right now the rim is not dished and there is no spacer behind the freewheel and I can only get 4 gears up from the bottom high gear. The most important ones are the first 4 gears though. I dished the rim to the left at first but in order for the rim to be centered on the bikes center line there wasn't enough axle on the left side for the nut to thread on. So it cant be dished because of the wide dropouts.
+1
It would be nice to see a 28" wheel on there as well. For us using this motor with fat tire bike. (I can just guesstimate though 8) )
Anybody know where these wires can be found in the U.S.?
I tried to order them but couldn't change the country. :lol:
Or should I do what allex did and strip the insulation off of 10awg where the wire go's through the axle and heat shrink?
Any suggestions?
I thought I might as well upgrade the phase wires wile I'm waiting for this.
http://www.ebikekit.com/kit-components/small-parts/freewheels/freewheel-spacer-for-1-speed/
I'm playing around with dishing and freewheel spacers to get my freewheel back to where it was or close so I can use all the gears.
Also I would like to use both of the Doc's TA for this build but I may only be able to use one on the disc side. Then maybe a lock nut on the right side. Does anybody think this is a bad idea? I will probably tryout pushing 8kw at some point.
Here is a picture of my issues. Right now the rim is not dished and there is no spacer behind the freewheel and I can only get 4 gears up from the bottom high gear. The most important ones are the first 4 gears though. I dished the rim to the left at first but in order for the rim to be centered on the bikes center line there wasn't enough axle on the left side for the nut to thread on. So it cant be dished because of the wide dropouts.
Any small cheap screen to read the KTY83-110 temp sensor of the motor with out CA
+1
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