MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[macribs]

@korpin maybe you could rip off 2 largest sprockets off your 9 speed?

did not even know you could do that

Yes you can . the cogs are often like this, you can unscrew the cassette and remover as needed.
You will see where the 3 screws are holding the cassette together. Undo those and take cassette apart and remove as much or little as needed for the width to fit.

Just follow the video, remove cog and spacers as needed.

[youtube]i8DSmqt97pM[/youtube]

 

[Seya]

Hey Guys,

Just got my mxus 3000 up and running.

I'm at about 5000 watts peak..
Instant smile! Wants to wheelie like crazy.. Im using a holmes 19" with a 2.25 veerubber from treatland.

Under normal riding the controller/ motor get warm.. Which means on a big uphill I might have heat issues.
I'm using the CA V3 and I want to take advantage of " thermal rollback " but havent figured out how to set it up

I'm not sure how to interface the white ( temp sensor ) wire from the motor wiring harness.. to the CA V3 thermistor input ( which has a signal and gnd )

I told Ben from ebikes.ca that I only have 1 wire and he says there should be two wires from most hub motor thermistors.
It seems like I just need a ground since the white one is the signal.

So how are people setting up their temp sensors?

 

[teslanv]

For the temp sensor you have to use the white wire and the shared black ground from the halls.
Icecube57 posted some pics of the CA settings here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66305&start=50#p1013306

 

[teslanv]

Here is some Hard data for the EE folks:
MXUS XF40-45H (3000W) DD Hub motors...

21X3T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.072 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 597, 11.89 Kv
1.78A/89.4 Watts No Load

16X4T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.110 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 448.2, 8.93 Kv
1.08A/54.2 Watts No Load

12X5T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.163 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 359, 7.15 Kv
0.84A/42.2 Watts No Load

10X6T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.225 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 299.4, 5.96 Kv
0.64A/32.1 Watts No Load

All bare hub motors weigh in at right around 9.14 Kg.

These are the motors I sent to Justin for Dyno Testing.
No Load Current was measured with my Fluke 77 iii RMS Digital Multimeter, so it should be pretty darn accurate.

 

[Longshot]

Ill thow in 40 for the tests...

 

[Doctorbass]

Here is some Hard data for the EE folks:
MXUS XF40-45H (3000W) DD Hub motors...

21X3T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.072 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 597, 11.89 Kv
1.78A/89.4 Watts No Load

16X4T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.110 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 448.2, 8.93 Kv
1.08A/54.2 Watts No Load

12X5T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.163 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 359, 7.15 Kv
0.84A/42.2 Watts No Load

10X6T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.225 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 299.4, 5.96 Kv
0.64A/32.1 Watts No Load

All bare hub motors weigh in at right around 9.14 Kg.

These are the motors I sent to Justin for Dyno Testing.
No Load Current was measured with my Fluke 77 iii RMS Digital Multimeter, so it should be pretty darn accurate.

Thanks for these accurate measurement!!

It is interesting to see also the Watt per RPM !!

the 3T is 149mW per rpm and the 6T is 107mW per rpm... ( no load watt at 50V / rpm)

This give a great idea of the loss per rpm !

Doc

 

[zener]

Thanks for these accurate measurement!!

It is interesting to see also the Watt per RPM !!

the 3T is 149mW per rpm and the 6T is 107mW per rpm... ( no load watt at 50V / rpm)

This give a great idea of the loss per rpm !

Doc

Isn't eddycurrent proportional like kinetic energy joule ?

 

[teslanv]

So MXUS is now telling me that smaller spoke holes are no problem. Next order, we will find out if they can follow through...
Thinking 3.2mm would be about right for 12g/13g spokes.

 

[windtrader]

Here is some Hard data for the EE folks:
MXUS XF40-45H (3000W) DD Hub motors...

21X3T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.072 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 597, 11.89 Kv
1.78A/89.4 Watts No Load

16X4T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.110 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 448.2, 8.93 Kv
1.08A/54.2 Watts No Load

12X5T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.163 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 359, 7.15 Kv
0.84A/42.2 Watts No Load

10X6T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.225 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 299.4, 5.96 Kv
0.64A/32.1 Watts No Load

All bare hub motors weigh in at right around 9.14 Kg.

These are the motors I sent to Justin for Dyno Testing.
No Load Current was measured with my Fluke 77 iii RMS Digital Multimeter, so it should be pretty darn accurate.

Humm...

The data supports what we know - kV increases with fewer motor winds and increased rotating given the same input volts increases power consumption.

The general consensus has been higher kV from higher volts and fewer amps (same power) is the preferred option over lower volts and higher amps, primarily due to less generated heat with fewer amps. But we see higher kV suffers more power loss.
For folks in the higher kV (higher volts * lower amps), greater power is consumed to spin the motor (unloaded) at higher RPM. Do these measurements sway your position and overall decision that this is the better path?

If one can efficiently dissipate excess heat from the lower kV/higher amp setups, is there a shift in the configuration back toward this setup (lower kV/higher amps)?

Seems like a pretty fine balance about which way offer better power output and lower power consumption.

 

[Doctorbass]

Humm...


The general consensus has been higher kV and lower amps producing the same power is the preferred option over lower kV and higher amps, primarily due to less generated heat with fewer amps. But we see higher kV inherently requires more power.

For folks in the higher kV/lower amps, greater power is consumed to spin the motor (unloaded) at higher RPM. Do these measurements sway your position and overall decision that this is the better path?

I think you made a typo when you wrote:

higher kV and lower amps producing the same power

higher kv ( rpm per volt) mean higher amp to give the same power... not lower amp!

but maybe you meant : higher kV and lower VOLT producing the same power.

I know you know Power is Volt x Amp.. :wink:

Doc

Doc

 

[madin88]

Thanks for these accurate measurement!!

It is interesting to see also the Watt per RPM !!

the 3T is 149mW per rpm and the 6T is 107mW per rpm... ( no load watt at 50V / rpm)

This give a great idea of the loss per rpm !

Doc

looks like this is one of the disadvantages of higher kV (lower inductance) motors.
afaik higher controller PWM frequency could make it lower but i'm not sure about it.

what controller have you used teslanv?
the resistance of 3T motor are with stock phase wires right?

 

[teslanv]

The tests above were done on all stock motors with stock phase wires, which are 2.5mm2 (~13 AWG).
The motor I am running (3T winding) has upgraded phase wires. The phase resistance on it is 0.060 Ohms.
I run it on an 18x4110 Lyen (aka Xie Chang aka Infineon) controller. I can hit 50 MPH (80 km/h) on 72V and 50A (~3600W). This is with a 21.5" (546mm) diameter tire.

 

[Doctorbass]

Here is some Hard data for the EE folks:
MXUS XF40-45H (3000W) DD Hub motors...

21X3T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.072 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 597, 11.89 Kv
1.78A/89.4 Watts No Load

16X4T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.110 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 448.2, 8.93 Kv
1.08A/54.2 Watts No Load

12X5T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.163 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 359, 7.15 Kv
0.84A/42.2 Watts No Load

10X6T Winding
Phase resistance = 0.225 Ohms
RPM at 50.2V = 299.4, 5.96 Kv
0.64A/32.1 Watts No Load

All bare hub motors weigh in at right around 9.14 Kg.

These are the motors I sent to Justin for Dyno Testing.
No Load Current was measured with my Fluke 77 iii RMS Digital Multimeter, so it should be pretty darn accurate.

This MXUS chart is really similar in term of kV and winding turn count to the epic Crystalyte X5300 serie!

-number of pole:12
-number of magnets: 24

5302: 10x2T
--Kv: 18.2
--number of strands: 10
--size of each strands: AWG 20 ( 0.032"dia)
--All strands = to one 10 AWG
--inductance bewteen two phase wire: 79uH with my meterman XR37 and 109uH(retested with calibrated Agilent LCR meter) 5 jan 2014
--DC resistance between two phase wire: 0.045ohm (direct to winding)

5303: 8x3T
--Kv: 12.1
--number of strands: 8
--size of each strands: AWG 20 ( 0.033"dia)
--All strands = to one AWG 11 conductor
--inductance between two phase wire: 169uH with my meterman XR37 and 220uH(retested with calibrated Agilent LCR meter) 5 jan 2014
--DC resistance between two phase wire:0.097ohm(direct to winding) and 0.103ohm(thru the anderson connector)

5304: 5x4T
--Kv: 9.1
--number of strands: 5
--size of each strands:
--All strands = to one AWG
--inductance between two phase wire:
--DC resistance between two phase wire:

5305: 4x5T
--Kv: 7.14
--number of strands: 4
--size of each strands: AWG 21 (0.029'")
--All strands = to one AWG 15 conductor
--inductance between two phase wire:
--DC resistance between two phase wire: 0.142ohm

5306: 4x6T
--Kv: 6.1
--number of strands: 4
--size of each strands: AWG 20 ( 0.033"dia)
--All strands = to one AWG 11 conductor
--inductance between two phase wire:
--DC resistance between two phase wire:

5403: 8x3T
-kV: close to 9.. but estimated only
--number of strands: 8
--size of each strands: AWG 20 (0.032'")
--All strands = to one AWG 11 conductor
--inductance between two phase wire: 297uH
--DC resistance between two phase wire: 0.104ohm



Doc

 

[John in CR]

Thanks for these accurate measurement!!

It is interesting to see also the Watt per RPM !!

the 3T is 149mW per rpm and the 6T is 107mW per rpm... ( no load watt at 50V / rpm)

This give a great idea of the loss per rpm !

Doc

looks like this is one of the disadvantages of higher kV (lower inductance) motors.
afaik higher controller PWM frequency could make it lower but i'm not sure about it.

what controller have you used teslanv?
the resistance of 3T motor are with stock phase wires right?

It would be interesting to see if there's a difference due to the controller...you'd need to run the same rpm to separate that out, but I don't see how it could be a measurable difference at no load, since it's the same slots and polls. Other than some tiny differences in copper losses at low no-load current, the W/rpm at any given rpm should be identical regardless of the number of turns.

I'm surprised Doc is trying to look at watts/rpm at no load and trying to compare different windings, because no load is looking at iron losses, which are the same (same slots, poles, and stator steel). Sure the controller may have more losses at higher rpm, but the primary cause of the difference is that at only 600rpm of the 3T it's probably just gotten to the plateau of the portion of iron losses that flatten out (the hysterisis losses I think), while the eddy current losses continue increasing with rpm. Comparing different rpms like that will always have increasing W per rpm at higher rpm. Use your 3 speed switch and get no load currents at different rpm, and you'll see that increase with any motor.

I believe the issues of controller losses with lower inductance speed wind motors is all load related, and I've found the Infineon/XieChang controllers to be the worst at handling it as evidenced by speed wind motors making them run the hottest of all controllers I've tried with speed wind motors. We need an electronics guru to test and explain the cause...All I know is they get hotter at the same current and voltages, and it happens with every 12, 15, 18, 24, 30, and 36fet controller I've tried with those boards. That's why I've never even considered running 24s with a 100V component XieChang controller.

John

 

[madin88]

Sure the controller may have more losses at higher rpm, but the primary cause of the difference is that at only 600rpm of the 3T it's probably just gotten to the plateau of the portion of iron losses that flatten out (the hysterisis losses I think), while the eddy current losses continue increasing with rpm. Comparing different rpms like that will always have increasing W per rpm at higher rpm. Use your 3 speed switch and get no load currents at different rpm, and you'll see that increase with any motor.

i'm with you. the no load mW per RPM probably will be similar at proportional changed voltage.
3T with 37.5V, 4T with 50V, 5T with 62.5V, 6T with 75V

 

[Samd]

Still having alot of fun with my 4T V2 MXUS motors.
Couldn't resist doing another dual build. That's a v2 up front also, in a 6t.
Battery will be in a leather satchel left of the rear wheel attached to stays.

 

[dbaker]

Video, please

 

[Rix]

Video, please

+1, I have a special need to see a video of your machine in action

 

[teslanv]

The MXUS 3000W motor is now on the ebikes.CA simulator.
Select "MXUS 4504_V2"

90% peak efficiency.

 

[Allex]

45 pages in just a few months about just one motor. Can we state that this is the most popular motor on ES of all times?

 

[Rix]

45 pages in just a few months about just one motor. Can we state that this is the most popular motor on ES of all times?

Yah Allex, its safe to assume that. This motor is way more popular than any other motor that a thread has been generated for.

 

[Doctorbass]

45 pages in just a few months about just one motor. Can we state that this is the most popular motor on ES of all times?

Yah Allex, its safe to assume that. This motor is way more popular than any other motor that a thread has been generated for.

well it depend on the proportion of people on the forum and the generation of people on the forum too :lol:

I came here in 2007 and C-lyte was the most popular for years.. about 2006-2012!

however The MXUS look like to become the new most popular!

 

[Doctorbass]

Did someone asked Justin if he would be interested to sell it?

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

Also.. is Justin testing other turn version of the MXUS? ex the 3T and 5T etc..?

because with 90V the 3T top the accecleration to about 43kmh.. unless you have the Adaptto and OVS activated...

I am really curious to compare the 3T and efficiency..

 

[teslanv]

Also.. is Justin testing other turn version of the MXUS? ex the 3T and 5T etc..?

because with 90V the 3T top the accecleration to about 43kmh.. unless you have the Adaptto and OVS activated...

I am really curious to compare the 3T and efficiency..

yes, the 3T, 5T and 6T are also getting dyno tested this week, according to Justin.