MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[Rix]

Interesting watching people compare power not torque density.

T

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Could you explain what you mean by comparing power not torque density?

The Cromotor and the MXUS are not too much different, we are talking 48mm vs 45 mm stator and the cromotor v3 doesn't have extra copper fill or curved magnets. Why could you not compare them?

I think what Sams is referring too is work load output with same volts/amps/parameters input. So for the weight of the motor, the output of the MXUS may be higher for its weigh/thrust ratiot than the both the MXUS and Cromotor. Conversally, the 54xx is lower than all the above for its weight/thrust ratio, it can just handle the same current longer than the MXUS with same turn count. Hey Sam, clarify this, I believe this is what you were referring to.

 

[madin88]

After this adjustment, the MXUS 3000 Turbo seems to be very close to performance to my Cromotor. What seems odd is the MXUS seems to have more torque when climbing stuff and maybe when first hitting the throttle. I even had to release the throttle over some grassy hills because I didn't want to rip up the grass when climbing.

I have a very steep small hill that I like to test my bikes power on and it seems the MXUS pulls up it much faster and easier than my cromotor.

Just doesn't make any sense and I will probably need to put the Cromotor back on. There is a possibility that maybe I weakened the magnets on my cromotor because I once overheated it enough to have to reglue the magnets. However, I don't think I actually weakened them much as I never noticed any power loss.

Pretty much the same findings as i got when i swapped my Cromotor for the MXUS V2^^
the MXUS overheats quicker, but thats mainly because of it's lower mass..
It makes sense that you felt more torque with the V3 MXUS, because it has thicker, AND stronger Magnets (N38 vs n35 from the Cro IIRC).
I'm going to upgrade that V2 soon with a V3 rotor, and i hope it noticeable helps keeping the motor cooler when climbing steep hills. From your findings it looks promising

 

[Merlin]

...i forgot...

your CroMotor "v3" is a QS Motor v2.
there is only "rare" talking about a Cromotor v4...but only a v4 cro is a QS v3.

i switched from a cro v3 to a cro v4 and its a huge difference. pretty sure this is why offroader does not feel "that" difference between cro motor and mxus.

my comparing was Crov4/qs205 with MXUS v3

 

[Allex]

Installed a V3 on A beta frame. What I noticed is the very heavy drag it had. I believe that my V2 did not have such strong drag as V3 has.

 

[Offroader]

...i forgot...

your CroMotor "v3" is a QS Motor v2.
there is only "rare" talking about a Cromotor v4...but only a v4 cro is a QS v3.

i switched from a cro v3 to a cro v4 and its a huge difference. pretty sure this is why offroader does not feel "that" difference between cro motor and mxus.

my comparing was Crov4/qs205 with MXUS v3

OK, that explains it then if the Cro v4 is a QS 205.

Yeah the QS 205 is another beast and more weight.

 

[Offroader]

Installed a V3 on A beta frame. What I noticed is the very heavy drag it had. I believe that my V2 did not have such strong drag as V3 has.

Why do you think it has more drag than the v2? Is this because of the stronger magnets?

 

[madin88]

Allex, you switched from the 35mm Leaf to the MXUS, right? that would explain why you noticed the higher drag that much..
generally, the downside of stronger magnets is the higher drag and probably also small drop in peak efficiency

 

[Rix]

Installed a V3 on A beta frame. What I noticed is the very heavy drag it had. I believe that my V2 did not have such strong drag as V3 has.

Do you think the eddy resistance is higher on the V3 due to stronger and curved magnets?

 

[Allex]

I am comparing v2 with v3 now. Not the leaf. The sound is very obvious too, on v3 you hear this electrical whine even if you just roll the bike and while at speed it is pretty loud in comparison to v2. Yes this could be due to curved magnets along with more strenght, this should be it because nothing else has changed right?

 

[Samd]

Careful theres something not right here. Many v3 dont have curved magnets.

And I have never encountered this noise.

Higher gauss means lower rpm.

Personally I would point the finger at the controller. No chance its a poorly dialed in adappto?

I can coast a v3 or v2 open circuit by hand on a truing wheel with no controller.





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[Offroader]

I am comparing v2 with v3 now. Not the leaf. The sound is very obvious too, on v3 you hear this electrical whine even if you just roll the bike and while at speed it is pretty loud in comparison to v2. Yes this could be due to curved magnets along with more strenght, this should be it because nothing else has changed right?

Allex, what do you mean electrical whine?

In my V3 tubo with curved magnets I actually hear a very faint noise also. I thought of it as a low level humming noise but it is hard to explain, but maybe that is what you mean by electrical noise. It is most noticeable when the tire is spun very slowly or when you spin the tire and when it starts to slow up you can hear it. This is when spinning the tire by hand with the controller off.

I think I can also hear it when just pushing the bike, but wasn't sure because my rear brakes needed adjustment.

When the tire spins fast I don't think I can hear anything because the tire rotation and freewheel makes a lot of noise.

I was a bit worried this was a problem with my motor but maybe this is in all of them. I was going to even ask about this but figured nobody would know and it is too hard to explain.

I'm also not sure when it started and if it only happened after I connected my phase wires, just too much of a pain to disconnect the phase wires to see if it stops.

The noise is very faint and you can barely hear it, but it is there.

 

[Allex]

Nah this is not a controller issue, the motor is like that when you spin it by pedals or hands while the wheel is in the air. I don't think there is something wrong with it, it just how it is...
I will try to make a video if I find the time. Remember some sci-fi movies from the 90-80s where they drive around in futuristic cars? It basically sounds like it, kinda cool.

 

[Offroader]

Allex was just messing with my motor, actually I think you are talking about the whirling sound when the wheel spins up, kind of like a whistle noise. That is a lot louder and I didn't think anything of that noise. So I assume my cromotor did it but I just don't remember.

The noise I am talking about is much more faint and you have to listen for it, but I bet all the motors do it.

 

[Offroader]

Hey everyone, need some advice on a potential problem with my MXUS turbo.

When the motor is spinning very slowly, or when I am pushing the bike around very slowly (Just like 1 or 2 MPH), I can feel a little resistance in the motor. The resistance is not CONSTANT, meaning if I am walking with my bike very slowly I will feel the resistance briefly like once per second. It will be like resistance, no resistance, resistance, no resistance...

The best way to describe the resistance is like I used regen braking, but it is very small resistance as the motor is spinning very slowly. It just feels like a regenerative braking resistance when I feel it, kind of sounds a bit like it also.

If I push my bike faster I don't feel it, it only does it at very slow speeds. It seems to be completely gone if I walk faster with my bike.

I can feel this resistance resonate through my bike and even in my handlebars, it also makes a very low hum noise if I listen closely and my ear is near the motor. Again what I feel and hear is very little.

If my rear wheel is off the ground and I spin the tire, it will only have that resistance when the motor is spinning very slowly and almost stopped. I will start hearing it just a few seconds before the wheel completly stops.

The motor seems fine and runs fine other than this problem. It isn't the brakes because I removed the caliper. It does it if I push the bike forward and if I push the bike backwards.

Would anyone have an idea on what this is?

Thanks

 

[Rix]

Hey everyone, need some advice on a potential problem with my MXUS turbo.

When the motor is spinning very slowly, or when I am pushing the bike around very slowly (Just like 1 or 2 MPH), I can feel a little resistance in the motor. The resistance is not CONSTANT, meaning if I am walking with my bike very slowly I will feel the resistance briefly like once per second. It will be like resistance, no resistance, resistance, no resistance...

The best way to describe the resistance is like I used regen braking, but it is very small resistance as the motor is spinning very slowly. It just feels like a regenerative braking resistance when I feel it, kind of sounds a bit like it also.

If I push my bike faster I don't feel it, it only does it at very slow speeds. It seems to be completely gone if I walk faster with my bike.

I can feel this resistance resonate through my bike and even in my handlebars, it also makes a very low hum noise if I listen closely and my ear is near the motor. Again what I feel and hear is very little.

If my rear wheel is off the ground and I spin the tire, it will only have that resistance when the motor is spinning very slowly and almost stopped. I will start hearing it just a few seconds before the wheel completly stops.

The motor seems fine and runs fine other than this problem. It isn't the brakes because I removed the caliper. It does it if I push the bike forward and if I push the bike backwards.

Would anyone have an idea on what this is?

Thanks

Lift the rear wheel off the ground and spin it, see if the resistance occurs in the same place on the motor.

 

[Offroader]

I turned my bike on the seat and was carefully rotating the tire to see if any part of the motor had more resistance.

What I noticed is that if I spin the motor extremely slowly it will turn smoothly and I will feel or hear no resistance. As soon as I spin it a little faster at a certain speed that is when I will hear and feel the resistance.

It seems that the motor hums and gets this resistance at a certain exact speed, anything below that speed is fine, anything above seems to be fine or possibly I just don't notice it as it may be a constant resistance at that point.

This is why I thought I felt the resistance on and off when pushing the bike because I would not be pushing it at a constant speed.

So it seems that for example, at 1 MPH everything is fine, at exactly 2 mph, motor feels like it starts get get resistance and I hear a slight hum, 3+ mph it seems to go away or maybe it is so constant that i don't recognize it.

This could be the same thing Alex was talking about with heavy drag and noise, it is just that it starts doing it at around a certain speed and if you are in between those speeds you will feel and hear it start. walking with the bike will put you in between those speeds.

Now I am stumped here, why does this MXUS do this and not my cromotor? Is this normal or is there something wrong with my motor.

 

[Samd]

Is the controller connected and does it do it with the phases disconnected?

Might have a short.


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[ecycler]

Yes, unplug the phase wires and see if it changes.

 

[Offroader]

I unplugged all the phase and don't really notice any difference. It is so minor and I'll bet all the MXUS turbos probably do it.

Since it is so minor and I don't have another MXUS Turbo motor to compare against I'm just going to ignore it because there is nothing I could do anyway.

 

[Offroader]

I was riding around and notice that the motor temps easily get up to 120C after a few miles, but when I feel the motor case it only feels warm. I can get the motor up to 120C very fast and often. It does fall back down to 80C in a couple of minutes.

The Cromotor case when I hit those higher temps would feel burning hot and stay hot.

How hot should the MXUS motor case feel?

 

[Rix]

I unplugged all the phase and don't really notice any difference. It is so minor and I'll bet all the MXUS turbos probably do it.

Since it is so minor and I don't have another MXUS Turbo motor to compare against I'm just going to ignore it because there is nothing I could do anyway.

Shit, I am stumped also.

 

[Offroader]

So my MAX E default Temp roll back was set at 345F from manufacture, and this was before I had things dialed, I hit that thermo roll back once. Didn't seem to hurt the motor, but I turned things down to 290F. Its possible that temp reading weren't precise though. When I hit 345F, I touched the side of my motor and it wasn't that hot. I have had motors so hot I couldn't touch them for more than an instant or my finger would blister. I posted a pic back of my 5404 getting so hot the stator darkened. This has not happened to my MXUS V2 4T. For what its worth.

Rix, looking back on your previous post above you may have determined the same thing when your motor hit 345F and you touched the side of your motor. What motor were you using here?

I had to actually increase my temp limit to 345F from my 245 that I had for my Cromotor, because it was hitting temp cutoff so easily and the motor was just slightly warm. I wasn't even pushing the motor that hard and it is winter cold outside.

I also hit 300F on my temp gauge when I wasn't riding all that hard, I just full throttled it for a few seconds on pavement at the end of my ride, and I also touched the motor casing and it was just warm. I used to warm my fingers with my cromotor in the winter sometimes, the MXUS does not get hot enough to do this, although temp readings are really high.

Can I assume that if I hit super hot temps on the temp gauge and the motor casing is just warm, that I am not damaging my magnets?

I don't get what could be wrong, the temp probe reads correct ambient temp before I start riding. It may be that the MXUS windings get super hot super fast compared to the cromotor.

I have to admit, my MXUS turbo does seem a bit draggy while riding (when I release throttle, motor seems to be drag more than my cromotor). I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Yes I am fully aware that the cromotor has much more thermal mass, not sure how that would play into this. I had the MXUS overheated in 3 miles, while it takes about 7 miles with my cromotor.

I'm considering putting back my cromotor, but I believe the 5 lbs less weight does make a difference with handling so I would like to keep that weight off the rear.

I'm not really likeing this draggy feeling and I can also feel it through the handlebars when not on the throttle. Remember, Allex also commented on this motor drag, so I'm thinking it may be in all MXUS Turbos. I'm just stumped on why only Allex mentioned it.

 

[Rix]

So my MAX E default Temp roll back was set at 345F from manufacture, and this was before I had things dialed, I hit that thermo roll back once. Didn't seem to hurt the motor, but I turned things down to 290F. Its possible that temp reading weren't precise though. When I hit 345F, I touched the side of my motor and it wasn't that hot. I have had motors so hot I couldn't touch them for more than an instant or my finger would blister. I posted a pic back of my 5404 getting so hot the stator darkened. This has not happened to my MXUS V2 4T. For what its worth.

Rix, looking back on your previous post above you may have determined the same thing when your motor hit 345F and you touched the side of your motor. What motor were you using here?

I had to actually increase my temp limit to 345F from my 245 that I had for my Cromotor, because it was hitting temp cutoff so easily and the motor was just slightly warm. I wasn't even pushing the motor that hard and it is winter cold outside.

I also hit 300F on my temp gauge when I wasn't riding all that hard, I just full throttled it for a few seconds on pavement at the end of my ride, and I also touched the motor casing and it was just warm. I used to warm my fingers with my cromotor in the winter sometimes, the MXUS does not get hot enough to do this, although temp readings are really high.

Can I assume that if I hit super hot temps on the temp gauge and the motor casing is just warm, that I am not damaging my magnets?

I don't get what could be wrong, the temp probe reads correct ambient temp before I start riding. It may be that the MXUS windings get super hot super fast compared to the cromotor.

I have to admit, my MXUS turbo does seem a bit draggy while riding (when I release throttle, motor seems to be drag more than my cromotor). I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Yes I am fully aware that the cromotor has much more thermal mass, not sure how that would play into this. I had the MXUS overheated in 3 miles, while it takes about 7 miles with my cromotor.

I'm considering putting back my cromotor, but I believe the 5 lbs less weight does make a difference with handling so I would like to keep that weight off the rear.

I'm not really likeing this draggy feeling and I can also feel it through the handlebars when not on the throttle. Remember, Allex also commented on this motor drag, so I'm thinking it may be in all MXUS Turbos.

I think the MXUS temp sensors are not calibrated for the adaptto. It doesn't make sense. I have the V2, there is very little drag. The Eddy resistance is way less than the all of the 54xx motors I have ran, and feels less resistance than the H4080. In other words, the V2 just spins very freely. When I have a WOT blast down the road, I let off and it coasts way further than my Fighter and Bomber would. If not Eddy resistance, what else could it be? I don't have any experience with the V3, so can't say. I can tell you the weight reduction is a huge benefit. When I replaced by Bombers 5404 with the TC4080, I couldn't believe the improvement. Of course thats more like 10 pounds less, but still, its way way better in the handling department. So much that I would sacrifice power and heat build tenancies up for the lighter weight option.

 

[Offroader]

Rix, the thing is that they just epoxied the KTY 83 sensor to the windings as you can see in the picture. What ever that white stuff is is very hard. I did the same thing with my KTY 83 sensor in my cromotor but I used thermal paste. Not sure if the way they epoxied it may make the temp probe read higher, but they really made good contact with the windings.

You can't really calibrate these things, but they do have different versions of the KTY 83, like 110, 120, and 130. Not sure if they used a KTY 83/110 or if they used a different version like a KTY 83/130 if that would make a difference. The ambient temp seems to read correct, if it is 60F in my basement my MAX-E motor temp is reading 60F.

 

[Rix]

Rix, the thing is that they just epoxied the KTY 83 sensor to the windings as you can see in the picture. What ever that white stuff is is very hard. I did the same thing with my KTY 83 sensor in my cromotor but I used thermal paste. Not sure if the way they epoxied it may make the temp probe read higher, but they really made good contact with the windings.

You can't really calibrate these things, but they do have different versions of the KTY 83, like 110, 120, and 130. Not sure if they used a KTY 83/110 or if they used a different version like a KTY 83/130 if that would make a difference. The ambient temp seems to read correct, if it is 60F in my basement my MAX-E motor temp is reading 60F.

The reason I brought this up was the TC40xx temp sensors are different from the H40xx sensors. When I ran my TC on my FIghter, it over heated instantly even though the motor was cool to the touch. I contacted Clyte about it and they confirmed there were different sensors for the motors. Kenny referenced the difference between the sensors, don't ask me what they were, I can't recall. So I figured the same thing could be occurring here. Maybe not though. I don't know for sure, just guessing. Still as far as the stiction and funny noise go, have no ideal