MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[spinningmagnets]

For those (with a wide hubmotor that only fits a single speed freewheel) who want to pedal along at higher speeds, and maybe also want several pedal-gears to choose from...you can use an IGH as a jackshaft, when you order a model designed for a tricycle, which has two sprockets on the right...as seen here:

 

[markz]

"MXUS 4505-Drilled" on ebikes.ca simulator
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72402&p=1093100#p1093100

 

[Samd]

Ha nice! Is it a V1 drilled?

 

[markz]

I don't know, probably a V2! Why? because its exactly the same graph as a 4505_V2.

 

[Samd]

I'll continue to leave my V2 hubs undrilled then

 

[markz]

Oil cooling sounds interesting, but sounds like a lot of sealing work.

 

[Doctorbass]

hi guys,
recently i have got a nice milliohm meter and did some measurements right off on my MXUS motors.
the metter is really accurate. i have verified with a high precicse DMM and constant current source.

thats the 3Tx20 motor:

for the 3Tx21 i expected something like 53mOhm or at least lower as the 20strand motor, but WTF?:

neet to check if all strands are properly solderd and especially the delta termination joint.

stock phase wires have 18mOhm (not shortened)
for the 3T motor this would mean 25% of copper losses are in the phase wires. -> not recommended to use it like this.
on 4T it would be about 15%
on 5T about 10%

I also got the new QS 205 V3 with 4T winding (it should be 11,5kV) and measured resistance. it only has 40mOhm incl phase wires. not bad!

Have you doublechecked the order you connected the aligator grip between current source and V sense? the good way is to connect the V sense at the end of the wire strands and current source in the middle. This way this avoid adding V loss between any current source and V sense connection :wink: Using this way you measure ONLY the resistance between 2 and 3 without error.

Or did you checked the continuity of EVERY single strands end to end?..I did that and discovrered that 2 was broken!!! these chineese girls that assemble them too quickly often seem to make some small loop in the strands and when they tension them the twist made by the loop break the strand! My 4T had this problem

Doc

 

[markz]

I will have to check that out Doctorbass, my Digital Multimeter can do that right? Ohm setting for continuity.
Checking for the phase wires Im talking about.

What am I looking for to measure, like where does each phase where start and end?

 

[madin88]

thank you for posting the pic how it needs to be wired.
yes this milliohm meter uses the 4- wire method. current is only 100mA but its extremely precise. i have confirmed like you did with a 5A current source and measured voltage drop.
the 3x21T has higher resistance on all three phases so it would mean there are more strands broken, or they used strands with smaller gauge but they look similar at least the color of the enamel.

I will pull the bunch of strands apart and will measure every single strand to the delta joint. this should bring it up if there is one dead or if there is a bad solder joint.
with this nice multimeter it will not take much time 8)
have it from here (big thanks to crossbreak for his advice):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-20-ohm-0-...-Meter-CASE-/121505331829?hash=item1c4a483a75

 

[markz]

I measured my winding wire with my digital measuring caliper. I have 0.7mm or 21 guage wire, does that sound right?
I need to know if my windings are broken/missed.

 

[stepan]

My Adaptto max-e controller autodetecting roughly 7kV for a MXUS 4t*16 V2. Have anyone the same issue? I believe it should be around 9.2kV.
The problem is that on Adaptto my MXUS is getting very hot too fast, while on Infineon motor temperature is like 20-30°C less on the same distance/speed/hills. And I even reduced the phase currents to ridiculously low amount on adaptto... It's barely start and stop compared to infineon...
Also much higher energy consumption: on Infineon ~20-22Wh/km, on Adaptto ~28-30Wh/km.

 

[Allex]

probably wrong angles, see my video of the "normal" settings at 0:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XybF15eNKtI

7kV you are seeing on the display of the Adaptto controller is not Actual kV rating. It is just an internal value

 

[markz]

How does or does 3Tx21 = 63strands 4Tx16 = 64strands 5Tx12 = 60strands relate to copper fill?
If it does, then how does 3T relate to same copper fill as 5T? or 4 and 6T?

From
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63142&p=981220&hilit=+copper+fill+mxus+strands#p981220

Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Postby madin88 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:27 am

Stevil_Knevil wrote:
So, more copper fill on the higher wind motor ..nice! Did you spec that, or is this standard winding practice on the 3kW MXUS V2?



3Tx21 = 63strands
4Tx16 = 64strands
5Tx12 = 60strands

allex measured the strands to be identical, therefore the 4T has the highest copper fill followed by the 3T which is now proven to be doable (got an email today)! This means flux weakening is not absolutely needed to achieve high speeds with below 90V battery..

 

[macribs]

How does or does 3Tx21 = 63strands 4Tx16 = 64strands 5Tx12 = 60strands relate to copper fill?
If it does, then how does 3T relate to same copper fill as 5T? or 4 and 6T?

From
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63142&p=981220&hilit=+copper+fill+mxus+strands#p981220

Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Postby madin88 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:27 am

Stevil_Knevil wrote:
So, more copper fill on the higher wind motor ..nice! Did you spec that, or is this standard winding practice on the 3kW MXUS V2?



3Tx21 = 63strands
4Tx16 = 64strands
5Tx12 = 60strands

allex measured the strands to be identical, therefore the 4T has the highest copper fill followed by the 3T which is now proven to be doable (got an email today)! This means flux weakening is not absolutely needed to achieve high speeds with below 90V battery..

3T seems to be 3Tx20! = 60 strands. If all strands are identical then 4T would be the one with most copper fill by far. 4T will have 6.2% more copper then 3T and 5T.

 

[Rix]

3T seems to be 3Tx20! = 60 strands. If all strands are identical then 4T would be the one with most copper fill by far. 4T will have 6.2% more copper then 3T and 5T.
User avatar
macribs 100 kW
100 kW Posts: 1278Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:59 pm

Top

Second time I head this now, got to be true. Right?

 

[macribs]

Well we don't know that this is true for all 3T motors, but multiple ES members have opened their Mxus 3000 3T and found only 3 x 20 rather then the claimed 3 x 21.

IIRC factory even said that making 3x21 was "too hard for factory workers". Seems they should not advertise motor as 3x21 as long as it seems they are made only with 3x20.

If the other info is correct, that all strains are of equal dimension for the various of mxus 45xx' motors, the 4T motor would be the one with the most copper fill. And thereby 4T should be the motor that will stand abuse and high current the best.

 

[Rix]

Well we don't know that this is true for all 3T motors, but multiple ES members have opened their Mxus 3000 3T and found only 3 x 20 rather then the claimed 3 x 21.

IIRC factory even said that making 3x21 was "too hard for factory workers". Seems they should not advertise motor as 3x21 as long as it seems they are made only with 3x20.

If the other info is correct, that all strains are of equal dimension for the various of mxus 45xx' motors, the 4T motor would be the one with the most copper fill. And thereby 4T should be the motor that will stand abuse and high current the best.

It that's the case, I am glad I got a MXUS 4t

 

[markz]

I am glad as well that I bought the 4T, but compared to the 3T and 5T, how much more current could the 4T take?

 

[Rix]

I am glad as well that I bought the 4T, but compared to the 3T and 5T, how much more current could the 4T take?

That is a great question. According the numbers, 5-8% more could be flowed, but I'm guessing. Smarter people than I will need to chime if for the exact official specs.

 

[teslanv]

I am glad as well that I bought the 4T, but compared to the 3T and 5T, how much more current could the 4T take?

That is a great question. According the numbers, 5-8% more could be flowed, but I'm guessing. Smarter people than I will need to chime if for the exact official specs.

The 3T can take the most current, because it has the most strands in parallel and the lowest resistance.

 

[macribs]

I am glad as well that I bought the 4T, but compared to the 3T and 5T, how much more current could the 4T take?

That is a great question. According the numbers, 5-8% more could be flowed, but I'm guessing. Smarter people than I will need to chime if for the exact official specs.

The 3T can take the most current, because it has the most strands in parallel and the lowest resistance.

Well then you are assuming 3T x 21 = 63?
Madin et al has discovered 3T x 20 = 60. That means 4T x 16 =64. If each strain is the same for all 45xx motors wouldn't the 4T have the most copper fill?

Or am I maybe misunderstanding something important here?

 

[wesnewell]

I'm no expert on this since the last motor I built was in electric shop in the 9th grade in ~1959, but surely the winding wire size is different for each motor keeping the copper fill about the same on each motor. I haven't really followed this thread much, so if that's already been mentioned , pardon me and I'll get lost again.

 

[madin88]

the motor with the most copper fill will be more efficient at given torque output. or we could also say it will stay cooler at same torque output.
IMO the 4T is best choice for most applications together with up to 100V controllers.

@ macribs:

the really strange thing is 21x3 has higher resistance as 20x3. I need to find out why this is the case. Hopefully only a few strands are broken or solder joints are bad.
This i could fix.
will keep you posted.

 

[teslanv]

Well then you are assuming 3T x 21 = 63?
Madin et al has discovered 3T x 20 = 60. That means 4T x 16 =64. If each strain is the same for all 45xx motors wouldn't the 4T have the most copper fill?

Or am I maybe misunderstanding something important here?

The question Was about current, not torque output. Strictly speaking, the 3T motor can take the most phase current because it will always have more parallel strands of copper, and lower resistance than a 4T or 5T or 6T winding. As for overall torque output, that would be whichever motor has the highest copper fill, if the 4T does in fact have 16 strands in parallel, then it is the most efficient motor of the bunch.

 

[Rix]

I am glad as well that I bought the 4T, but compared to the 3T and 5T, how much more current could the 4T take?

That is a great question. According the numbers, 5-8% more could be flowed, but I'm guessing. Smarter people than I will need to chime if for the exact official specs.

The 3T can take the most current, because it has the most strands in parallel and the lowest resistance.

The question Was about current, not torque output. Strictly speaking, the 3T motor can take the most phase current because it will always have more parallel strands of copper, and lower resistance than a 4T or 5T or 6T winding. As for overall torque output, that would be whichever motor has the highest copper fill, if the 4T does in fact have 16 strands in parallel, then it is the most efficient motor of the bunch.

I stand corrected, like I said above, I was guessing and smarter people than I needed to answer.