MXUS coming out with a 5K-Turbo motor, 55mm Magnets

markz said:
Doctorbass said:
spoted on Alibaba:

same?

http://mxus.en.alibaba.com/product/...s_72v_5000w_for_electric_bike_rear_wheel.html

Doc
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Wonder what the wait time is on it.
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Markz, Please dont forget the customer support in teh equation.. Yes i posted a link to alibaba, however you will never get the same customer service as Barent can do if you buy from Alibaba... Barent store is definitively is an intelligent choice. I had problem with one of my MXUS and Barent gave me excellent service and sent me the replacement part very fast.!

Just think about it :wink:


Doc
 
MXUS will be ready for production on the 5K-Turbo motors in about 3 weeks. Sounds like they finally got their tooling and new parts in order...
 
Who have already decided to pull the trigger on this one? There are decent choices around now even for hi power dd hubs. This new mxus 5K, qs 260 and 273. Look forward to see someone put this thing on the dyno.

Too bad really we couldn't drum up enough support last year from the community to get those hi power hubs tested by justin, and made available in his great e-bike simulator. As the hub choices broadens it will be harder to find the correct hub for your personal usage when motors are not in justins simulator.
 
Mxus got it wrong again I want a mxus 2k with water cooling ! I want the least unsprung weight yet reasonable power hub I can get. The more mass we throw into the rear hub the worse bike handling gets, yes mid drives are the answer but I hate the noise. unsprung mass is the enemy unless it's point and shoot.
 
Jestronix said:
Mxus got it wrong again I want a mxus 2k with water cooling ! I want the least unsprung weight yet reasonable power hub I can get. The more mass we throw into the rear hub the worse bike handling gets, yes mid drives are the answer but I hate the noise. unsprung mass is the enemy unless it's point and shoot.
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Done tell Luke that. He has a 44 pound hub motor he plans on bursting 52kw or 52,000w through it. :twisted: :twisted:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84264
 
Jestronix said:
Mxus got it wrong again I want a mxus 2k with water cooling ! I want the least unsprung weight yet reasonable power hub I can get. The more mass we throw into the rear hub the worse bike handling gets, yes mid drives are the answer but I hate the noise. unsprung mass is the enemy unless it's point and shoot.
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it would need a whole new motor design for lowering the weight, like:

- sidecovers with spoke flange (instead of heavy iron ring) safes about 1-1,5kg on common 3kW motors
- magnets with gap between (will not make performance worse)
- higher pole count (means that less iron is needed for the stator core and the iron ring for the magnet return)
- thinner lams (for more efficiency at high rpm, and to counter against the higher drag the higher pole count brings along)
- titanium axle :)
 
+1 madin. Now that is a hub motor I would crave. For good measure a thinner more lightweight back iron would save possible 1+ kilo. [strike]The flanges could be machined down between spokes like crystalyte motors.[/strike] Re read your post, and finally understood what you meant by the side covers. Side covers could even be made from carbon fiber.

If we could get a powerful hub down to 5-6 kilos that would be a really great start. And if we could have dd hubs like that, engineered for hi power and light weight already from the drawing board even single track racers and air time freaks could choose the easy hub motor route with remarkable better handling then we see today with 10+ kilos hubs.

Btw, when you did custom axles for the mxus motors did you ever weigh the standard axle? Or your custom made? I wonder if your custom axle was made in Titanium what kind of price would we see? Thinking that the harder surface of Ti will put more strain on tools, and add to the machining hours. But a beefier axle that is even lighter then stock would be a great choice.

I wonder if there would actually be a market for tuned up hub motors? Machined, lightened, and re wired with thicker wires? As I can't see that manufacturers will do anything like that the next few years, as their home market is still able to absorb pretty much anything off the assembly lines.
 
I wonder if there would actually be a market for tuned up hub motors? Machined, lightened, and re wired with thicker wires? As I can't see that manufacturers will do anything like that the next few years, as their home market is still able to absorb pretty much anything off the assembly lines.
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Hey Mac, there is a market, ES. And here's the thing, I for one like the price of the MXUS 3K motors, they are cheaper than Crystalyt, generally speaking, But I didn't buy and run the MXUS because it was cheaper, but because it works as good the TC series, and was compatible with the MAX E. if MXUS made a version of "tuned up hub motors" that were lighter like Madden said, and cost as much as the TC series, I would go the MXUS route in a heart beat. I believe that anyone that is serious about performance and min weight would gladly fork over the dollars for the best. I know I would.
 
madin88 said:
Jestronix said:
Mxus got it wrong again I want a mxus 2k with water cooling ! I want the least unsprung weight yet reasonable power hub I can get. The more mass we throw into the rear hub the worse bike handling gets, yes mid drives are the answer but I hate the noise. unsprung mass is the enemy unless it's point and shoot.
Click to expand...

it would need a whole new motor design for lowering the weight, like:

- sidecovers with spoke flange (instead of heavy iron ring) safes about 1-1,5kg on common 3kW motors
- magnets with gap between (will not make performance worse)
- higher pole count (means that less iron is needed for the stator core and the iron ring for the magnet return)
- thinner lams (for more efficiency at high rpm, and to counter against the higher drag the higher pole count brings along)
- titanium axle :)
Click to expand...

Damn Madin, You should contact MXUS and make this happen. I would buy it.
 
There have been many threads and posts about modding hubs in various ways. Everything from shaving back iron, swap wires, axles, epoxy magnets, drill side covers, paint motor internally and even one hub with carbon fiber side covers. I am not saying stock motors are bad as they work just fine out of the box. But there are still details that could be more polished to meet our desires. Just place an order and receive a perfectly tuned up motor in the mail. No more chipping magnets when taking motor apart. Or remove the wiring just to realize your fatter wires wont fit.

How could a ES-edition of a motor happen? And how far should and could we take the tuning? Would it be possible to persuade motor manufacturers to sell us such motors? Maybe if we could do a group buy to meet the MOQ for the extra work needed? Or maybe someone here got the skills, machines and tooling to make a custom tuned version?

To have a motor more targeted to our special ES needs as ebikers would be freakin awesome. If there was such an option I would get it too. Hey that is at least 2 motors sold :)
 
I would without a doubt pay double for an ES special motor "watercooled". Hell im still paying less than a BBSHD. No noisy chain and mashed nylon gears, or motor mount issues. Designed right a water cooled setup could pump using the motor rotation and further reduce complexity. A hose and a small radiator is not complicated, getting it through the axle is.
 
Well if the design was right from the start a phat axle with rooms for both wires and cooling line should be no problem. And there is no rule that say it is a must to route wires and cooling lines on the same side of the motor. Ie wires on the left and cooling line on the right. This ES edition hub motor is worthy a thread of its own........so here it goes https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87007
 
Going to bigger phase wires is super easy. Finding the Teflon PTFE wires can be hard.
I would like to know how much it would cost for a machine shop to do up a solid axle with bigger axle hole because that might be well worth the extra wire cross sectional area, plus perhaps it would have an added heat shedding capability. All the other stuff I have thought about, vents, fans, ferro fluid, atf, water cooling, but never went further then that.

I think the 5K is going to be great, but I am biased as the MXUS 3k was my first motor, well second I should say, as a brushed 300W geared motor lasted about a week or 2 before the brushes fried up. Stalled on a loooong hill, well maybe not stalled but going real sloooow at full throttle. Cheap learning experience.
 
If you're going to make a custom motor anyway, skip the entire axle/wire thing, use a good axle design that has no wire-exit-caused weaknesses, and use a larger bearing with an internal spacer to fill up it's ID, except for the space where the wires themselves go.

Then there is no limit to the wire size you can use, and you can add any kind of liquid cooling you like via that spacer as well if you like.

And the axle can be made in any way you like--even modular, as a thru-axle, if preferred, *and* it can be large enough diameter to enable an integrated torque arm as part of it, not having to depend on tiny little axle flats at all--you could use a normal round axle for stronger threads for the axle nut to secure it (less risk of stripping it during mounting/tightening).



If you use a large enough bearing you could even add an airflow duct inside the ID of it. ;)

(i've crossposted this to the new thread)
 
Is those kind of bearings widely available or are we talking some custom made bearings?
 
macribs said:
Is those kind of bearings widely available or are we talking some custom made bearings?
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I think the idea would be to design a hub cover that would take a standard size bearing of much larger diameter. Stuff if full of stout axle, phase wires and cooling lines.

SKF makes a 40mm (ID) x 68mm (OD) x 15mm (h) bearing that might be well-suited for the application.

http://www.skf.com/binary/30-121274/E2-Electric-motors-offer-sheet_13279_EN.pdf
 
EDIT: i crossposted this to the other thread linked above; recommend continuing the discussion only over there so ti's all in one place. ;)

You want higher power to the hub with greater efficiency, so you want thicker phase wires, and you want a stronger axle; these two are mutually exclusive if you're carving up the axle to make the wires fit. ;)

(although having an axle made of better material than recycled beer cans would help even the hollow axle designs ;) ).

The larger bearing isn't going to make any significant extra resistance in rotation. If you're worried about that, use one with larger balls and fewer of them. There's a good number of standard bearing types and sizes that would fit this application, in various configurations; look around mcmaster-carr's site for some examples (am heading to work so no time to dig up a link).

The only potential issues are with a freewheel or disc brake--you might have to sacrifice having one or the other to get a *really* large bearing in there. But you can be creative, and have disc bolts for a larger ID common motorcycle-type disc added to the side cover outside the bearing area. You want more power to get going, you might want more power to stop anyway, right? ;)
 
So if I understand the concept of this bearing with spacer it is to use a large diameter bearing. Pressfitted to the axle goes the spacer, as it would be easier to drill the spacer as a separate unit(or the spacer is a natural part of the axle and got a larger diameter then the rest of the axle) Spacer is drilled to fit large diameter wires and cooling lines.


Has such an axle/wire exit solution been done here? Either by crafted es members or even by manufacturer? It seems axle failures for electric bikes has been the case for a decade now. Why does manufacturer stick with a unsuperior method for routing wires? At lest for the higher powered motors such a solution should be an option at least, or stock at best.

Or are the spacer idea too new to have made it into any custom tuned hub yet? It is a darn good idea, and could be executed in various ways. Heck could even be a usable route for those who are doing oil filled hubs.
 
amberwolf said:
The only potential issues are with a freewheel or disc brake--you might have to sacrifice having one or the other to get a *really* large bearing in there. But you can be creative, and have disc bolts for a larger ID common motorcycle-type disc added to the side cover outside the bearing area. You want more power to get going, you might want more power to stop anyway, right? ;)
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very well explained!
the bolt circle of the brake rotor needs to be larger, than much more is possible. it probabaly is a good idea to using discs made for the Rohloff Speedhub if we keep using bicycle stuff.

about the higher drag from larger bearings:
yes, especially if bearings with double sided sealings are used, the drag will be a bit higher, but i also would say this is something which is insignificant because the RPM is not high.
 
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