My econo-e-bike

[E-HP]

Too early to take a victory lap, but my continuity testing showed intermittent connection on the hall/speed conductor to my harness connecting the the CA. In addition, some pins were pretty loose and easily backed out of the connector. The hall conductor didn’t show signs of a break, but it seems to be right around where the conductor and pin come together. My guess is with the short cable, especially for that conductor, the strain probably created a break under the insulation. Fortunately a have a few spare 6 pin JSTs with pigtails, so a little solder and shrink wrap and it should be good to test.

Edit: connector replaced. The 14s pack is charging and the lipos are ready to go. I’ll need too keep an eye on the one with the low cells. Took a while to balance, then I used my little balancing lipo meter that only uses resistance to bleed off the high cells which got them all balance to 0.001v differences by morning. Crossing my fingers that this solves the issue, so I can put my settings back on the CA.

EDIT 2:Ugh, still bucking. I brought the AGain way down, which helped, but created a long delay after applying throttle but it ran smooth as silk at speed. I took it to 35mph, but really didn’t want to see what the bucking might be like at higher speeds, and backed off. More clues after resetting the trip meter and testing again. After bucking I stopped to see what the CA recorded. AMax looked normal, but min had a large negative value. The max speed was also a lot higher than the speed from testing.

I may try 1. running without the speed input; 2. grabbing another hall signal; or 3. using bypass throttle to take the CA out of the equation.

EDIT 3: I realized that I need to do a better job at troubleshooting. I also realized that I wasn’t paying enough attention to the screen to see what kind of limits were being hit, if any. I need to take a more disciplined approach, and eliminate variables. I will first remove all limits, to determine if the bucking is limit related. If the issue persists, I’ll switch to Pass-thru throttle mode, and then Bypass throttle.
If removing limits resolves the issue, then I’ll need to look at the settings, and inputs (like swapping the hall sensor speed input, or eliminating the shunt JST.

In any case, I just realized that I can be out riding using bypass throttle mode, if I’m really careful, even while diagnosing the problem(s).

 

[hillslayer@]

I try and keep my electronics and connections to the bare minimum so I don't get stranded by a loose connection. This is also why I will never buy a high end ebike they are getting way more complicated than they need to be.

 

[E-HP]

Semi success! It’s definitely the speed signal triggering the speed limit, even though the limit was set to the max 99mph (the speed "mph" was blinking on the CA). I clipped the speed conductor going to my CA harness and put the power limits back in place and adjusted the throttle ramp way down to 1,5V/sec, and was able to ride around for an hour without any bucking issues. No speed display though. I’ll tweak the Wgain to see if I can get the throttle to be smoother. If I were to describe the test ride in two words, they’d be terrifying and thrilling, but the former if it were one word. Not being on the bike for a while and getting used to the throttle again, was scary, but I was doing fine by the end. I only accidentally wheelied once, but the front wheel was pretty light under acceleration. I have no idea how fast I was going, though.
I was probably going about 25 to 30 up this hill (17%) based on how the hub was warming up (but not enough to trigger temp protection). Hub ran strong and silent. Notice the duct tape that I’m using to hold the case cover on with. I brought the roll in case I needed to make an in field repair.


I tried speed 2 before getting home and it was scary all over again lol. I think it will all be fine once I gain my throttle control back.

I’ll try one of the other hall signals tomorrow. maybe I’m picking up noise with the cables running together, so I may even need to switch to an external speed sensor. I used 1/3 of the 14s pack capacity, and about 1/5 of the lipos, so I have plenty of room to work around the lipos with to avoid ever getting the lipos in their danger zone, and never need to fully charge them.

 

[hillslayer@]

Semi success! It’s definitely the speed signal triggering the speed limit, even though the limit was set to the max 99mph (the speed "mph" was blinking on the CA). I clipped the speed conductor going to my CA harness and put the power limits back in place and adjusted the throttle ramp way down to 1,5V/sec, and was able to ride around for an hour without any bucking issues. No speed display though. I’ll tweak the Wgain to see if I can get the throttle to be smoother. If I were to describe the test ride in two words, they’d be terrifying and thrilling, but the former if it were one word. Not being on the bike for a while and getting used to the throttle again, was scary, but I was doing fine by the end. I only accidentally wheelied once, but the front wheel was pretty light under acceleration. I have no idea how fast I was going, though.
I was probably going about 25 to 30 up this hill (17%) based on how the hub was warming up (but not enough to trigger temp protection). Hub ran strong and silent. Notice the duct tape that I’m using to hold the case cover on with. I brought the roll in case I needed to make an in field repair.
View attachment 391787

I tried speed 2 before getting home and it was scary all over again lol. I think it will all be fine once I gain my throttle control back.

I’ll try one of the other hall signals tomorrow. maybe I’m picking up noise with the cables running together, so I may even need to switch to an external speed sensor. I used 1/3 of the 14s pack capacity, and about 1/5 of the lipos, so I have plenty of room to work around the lipos with to avoid ever getting the lipos in their danger zone, and never need to fully charge them.

Bike might be safer on 52 volts, I thought about 72 volts on mine for a little more efficiency but realized I might abuse the ability to cruise at the higher speeds which probably means you need motorcycle gear. happy with 48 volts and 32 to 35 mph, do have field weakening that will get to 40 mph rarely use it.

 

[E-HP]

Bike might be safer on 52 volts, I thought about 72 volts on mine for a little more efficiency but realized I might abuse the ability to cruise at the higher speeds which probably means you need motorcycle gear. happy with 48 volts and 32 to 35 mph, do have field weakening that will get to 40 mph rarely use it.

18s works pretty well , 16s falls short. I usually ride at 17 to 20 mph, unless I’m riding around cars. But for testing, I just need to make sure the issue doesn’t show up unexpectedly at higher speeds. I still need to reinstall my analog aux input that I use to quickly dial in the power limit. It’s pretty civil at 4kW. This motor is funny in that whatever the power limit is set to, the motor will utilize it under normal riding when looking at the max readings in the CA after a ride. Maybe it’s the hills.

During my battery testing, I found 18S to work best. 16s didn’t really take advantage of the motor potential. 22S was nuts. 20s is more common than 18s when buying off the shelf parts and batteries, so I went with 20s. Plus at 20S I still have around 80nm of torque at 30mph, which still provides pretty hard acceleration for maneuvering in traffic since when I’m forced to ride around cars, the speed limits tend to be 30. I’ve only taken it above 50 once, and don’t see any value in testing the top speed.

Edit 08-17-26 swapping the speed input to another hall conductor solved the issue. Now I can concentrate on cleanup items!
Edit2 new issue popped up. Ah and Wh are recording negative values. I didn’t change anything in the setup, or physically with my shunt, so I’ll need to do more detective work. The issue isn’t affecting performance.
After riding my standup scooter for the last couple of months, I forgot how much more efficient the Leaf is, riding at the same or higher speeds, the Leaf consumption is about the same riding at 20mph as the scooter has at 15mph!

EDIT 08-18-26
To do Checklist (no particular order) Install new smaller buck converter for torque sensor supply; modify harness to accept new supply, and add JST for CA interface. Modify rear fender to fit. Shorten motor phase conductors. Install brake cutoffs, R for CA, L for controller; add corresponding connectors. Cleanup cable routing. Add voltmeters to monitor 6S and 14S voltages. Attach removable battery housing cover. Modify side covers. Fabricate dashboard for meters and switches. Add new spacer washers for rear disc caliper. Get rid of the CA digital aux buttons because they suck.

 

[hillslayer@]

Bike might be safer on 52 volts, I thought about 72 volts on mine for a little more efficiency but realized I might abuse the ability to cruise at the higher speeds which probably means you need motorcycle gear. happy with 48 volts and 32 to 35 mph, do have field weakening that will get to 40 mph rarely use it.

18s works pretty well , 16s falls short. I usually ride at 17 to 20 mph, unless I’m riding around cars. But for testing, I just need to make sure the issue doesn’t show up unexpectedly at higher speeds. I still need to reinstall my analog aux input that I use to quickly dial in the power limit. It’s pretty civil at 4kW. This motor is funny in that whatever the power limit is set to, the motor will utilize it under normal riding when looking at the max readings in the CA after a ride. Maybe it’s the hills.

During my battery testing, I found 18S to work best. 16s didn’t really take advantage of the motor potential. 22S was nuts. 20s is more common than 18s when buying off the shelf parts and batteries, so I went with 20s. Plus at 20S I still have around 80nm of torque at 30mph, which still provides pretty hard acceleration for maneuvering in traffic since when I’m forced to ride around cars, the speed limits tend to be 30. I’ve only taken it above 50 once, and don’t see any value in testing the top speed.

I guess that since I have a mid-drive in addition to my hub to quickly pick up my pace when I need to keeps me happy at lower amps and volts. I also don't bike around cars much just rural roads.

 

[E-HP]

I need some discipline to finish my To Do checklist, which seems to be growing rather than shrinking. My current plan is to spend an hour per day, working on each list item which the bike is charging. There will probably be duct tape involved for some things in the interim lol. I found my big Weller soldering iron, so I’ll be shortening the phase conductors and soldering on new XT150’s today.

Pot for my analog aux CA input. Taped in place until I fabricate a dashboard to mount it and the voltmeters on. I had it wired incorrectly and was producing errors but good now.

I sort of miss the duct tape stage of working on my bike. Progress before completion.


6S voltmeter taped to the battery box, until the dashboard is ready.


Here’s a question regarding the CA, but have little hope that it can achieve. The throttle ramp rate seems to apply any time the throttle is twisted. When doing an all out acceleration run, for example 0-40, the time from 20 to 30 or 30 to 40 is very short. That’s partially because by about 25mph, “full throttle” has achieved full throttle voltage using a 2v/second ramp rate for normal riding (my unlimited tests don’t apply the ramping). It would be nice not to have ramping apply at 25 and above, to improve my roll on response, to get from 30 to 40 in 2 seconds or so. The torque curve probably wouldn’t wheelie the bike accidentally by 30, so it seems like no ramping would work. Is there anything in the CA setting that could achieve this behavior?

EDIT: move installing the controller brake cutoff to the top of the list while the power issues are sorted out. I had one occasion where the bike wheelied unexpectedly when barely applying throttle. I was also seeing negative amps at rest, and negative Wh again.. I recalibrated the zero point, and Wh and ah readings corrected themselves. However, now I’m seeing this (3rd screen) with ___ Wh! / mi. I don’t ever recall seeing three blanks and the Wh! displayed before. The unexpected throttle behavior only occurred the one time, but once is too many.



EDIT 08-20-26. Controller brake cutoff installed, whew!

I had an issue with the hub running less smoothly at higher RPMs which ended up being noise related, and received help on this thread:

Failing hall sensor symptoms?

I had a weird issue where was getting erroneous speed readings on my Cycle Analyst. The CA harness I’d made used the motor’s yellow hall sensor wire as the speed source. Continuity testing passed but the issue persisted until I switched to using the blue hall wire. Speed reads correctly now, but...

endless-sphere.com

Resolving that issue appears to have also solved the intermittent negative current readings that were popping up randomly, and that I had tried swapping the shunt direction in an attempt to resolve. That just made everything negative, so I swapped it back (I changed the connector, so that could have helped as well). This is the first noise related issue I’ve had, but now it will always be a consideration when issues pop up.
However, the Wh! Symbol is still appearing and I can’t find anything in the manual describing it or what it means. But ! usually means an out out of range type error in general. The Wh reading, without the “!”, appears to be accurate.
EDIT: as the bugs get worked out, I’m feeling a little more confident about riding further out. I got a little exercise, but also covered a lot of distance under throttle too, seeing if I could detect any issues.

Still has duct tape (work in progress). I need to paint that right hub side cover…

…and add a rear fender and raise the front one.

EDIT 08-26-26 adding a little dashboard for my CA analog aux, voltmeter, and on-off-on toggle to display either the 14S or 6S pack voltages. I’ll add one more mini toggle for my lights to the right of the aux.







Edit: I’ll need to trim this down. It looks too big when mounted.

 

[hillslayer@]

Have you seen this controller, I believe it is like what you have only now you can tune it with Bluetooth. Might be similar to a Fardriver at 1/3 the price.
I just found this on AliExpress:
JRAHK Bluetooth Programmable BLDC Controller 36V 48V 60V 72V 90A Sine Wave Hub Motor Mid Drive E-Bike Scooter

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKIy3ux

Is your throttle Hall based, a bad ground connection can cause sudden full throttle. Found out the hard way.

 

[E-HP]

Have you seen this controller, I believe it is like what you have only now you can tune it with Bluetooth. Might be similar to a Fardriver at 1/3 the price.
I just found this on AliExpress:
JRAHK Bluetooth Programmable BLDC Controller 36V 48V 60V 72V 90A Sine Wave Hub Motor Mid Drive E-Bike Scooter

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKIy3ux

Is your throttle Hall based, a bad ground connection can cause sudden full throttle. Found out the hard way.

I only use dumb controllers now. The CA provides the brains, and the dumb controller provides the brawn. I have an extra one that I can just swap, since the wiring harnesses can just unplug from the old and plug into the replacement, and they only cost around $70 each when I bought them. They are probably speed based ESCs, because they are totally unrideable without the CA to tame the throttle ramping, and you really can’t stop the bike from flipping over, but with the CA set to current/power throttle mode and a low throttle ramp voltage, it’s easy to control.

Anyway, the weather has been odd, and even some light showers overnight. Sine my bike is running, I’ve been riding rather than completing my upgrades. Wires/cables still need to be organized and wrapped, and the battery case door is still duct taped on. I hate the way the accessory dashboard turned out because it’s too bulky, and since I potted all of the connections using hot glue, it will be work to remove the components to trim down the size. But everything is riding smoothly, so between fixing/finishing and riding, the latter wins. I’m going to tinker with it a bit while it’s charging today, but just until I’m ready to go out.

 

[E-HP]

I’m still blaming the weather for my lack of progress completing my updates. It been the typical odd, almost rainy mornings, that make me feel like the riding season is ending, then clear afternoons making me feel like riding rather than working on my bike. The only real thing I’ve done during the week is mounting a rear fender, and a little bit of cable organizing. I’ve only been riding about 20 miles a day, but pretty long, time wise, since I’m mainly putting around a pretty slow speeds and just enjoying the weather. Good news is the lipos are staying balanced, after the initial balancing before connecting everything up.

 

[hillslayer@]

California has a 365 day riding season.

 

[Zambam]

Nice looking bike!

Which class under California law does your's fall under?

In NYC:
Speed and Class RuleS

• • Speed limit: 15 mph citywide on streets, bike lanes, and greenways.
  • Class 1 & 2: Pedal-assist (Class 1) and throttle-assisted (Class 2) up to 20 mph max design speed are legal, but restricted to the 15 mph city cap.
  • Class 3: Throttle or pedal-assist up to 25 mph are permitted in NYC (unlike outside the city), but still restricted to 15 mph riding
  • 
    
  • In California, I was surprised to find no throttle allowed in class 3
    • Class 1: Pedal-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 2: Throttle-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 3: Pedal-assist up to 28 mph. [1]

 

[hillslayer@]

Nice looking bike!

Which class under California law does your's fall under?

In NYC:
Speed and Class RuleS

• • Speed limit: 15 mph citywide on streets, bike lanes, and greenways.
  • Class 1 & 2: Pedal-assist (Class 1) and throttle-assisted (Class 2) up to 20 mph max design speed are legal, but restricted to the 15 mph city cap.
  • Class 3: Throttle or pedal-assist up to 25 mph are permitted in NYC (unlike outside the city), but still restricted to 15 mph riding
  • 
    
  • In California, I was surprised to find no throttle allowed in class 3
    • Class 1: Pedal-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 2: Throttle-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 3: Pedal-assist up to 28 mph. [1]

Still trolling I see.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Still trolling I see.

Not a troll, please stop provoking

 

[hillslayer@]

Not a troll, please stop provoking

Why is posting BS laws on a build thread not trolling.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Why is posting BS laws on a build thread not trolling.

It's a compliment, then an honest question to OP as to which category his build may or may not fall under, followed by (what looks like to me) a copy-paste from an LLM query regarding the difference between California and NY ebike laws. Which are confusing and ever-changing, and therefore easy for a chatbot to get the information wrong. Easy for people to get wrong too, not against rules, and in my judgement, not trolling. If that behavior changes, I will step in.

Your behavior, on the other hand, is much more closely resembling trolling. You're unnecessarily antagonistic, both in this thread and last week's tire puncture thread.

Let it go.

 

[neptronix]

We are mostly a hot rodder forum, so it's at the very least, bad form to shame someone based on the power of their vehicle.
I'm not sure if that's what was intended. It's easy to misinterpret someone over the internet. It would have been better to ask for clarification than to accuse.

If you can't stand someone on this forum, we have an option for that.



Let's try to give e-HP his thread back though

 

[ZeroEm]

Nice looking bike!

Which class under California law does your's fall under?

In NYC:
Speed and Class RuleS

• • Speed limit: 15 mph citywide on streets, bike lanes, and greenways.
  • Class 1 & 2: Pedal-assist (Class 1) and throttle-assisted (Class 2) up to 20 mph max design speed are legal, but restricted to the 15 mph city cap.
  • Class 3: Throttle or pedal-assist up to 25 mph are permitted in NYC (unlike outside the city), but still restricted to 15 mph riding
  • 
    
  • In California, I was surprised to find no throttle allowed in class 3
    • Class 1: Pedal-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 2: Throttle-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 3: Pedal-assist up to 28 mph. [1]

His Bike is like my trike. With CA settings a Class 2. If he took a hammer to the throttle it could be a class 3.

My trike is not as powerful, controller limited but not an issue.

The best thing about his ebike is the riders selfcontrol.

 

[ZeroEm]

We are mostly a hot rodder forum, so it's at the very least, bad form to shame someone based on the power of their vehicle.
I'm not sure if that's what was intended. It's easy to misinterpret someone over the internet. It would have been better to ask for clarification than to accuse.

If you can't stand someone on this forum, we have an option for that.

View attachment 392556

Let's try to give e-HP his thread back though

Would like to think we build sleepers.
Wolf in sheep's clothing sorta thing.

Good work E-HP, never get tired of reading up on your builds. Been out of play myself. Trying to find my way back, need to finish building a home server. Plan to drag out my trike in Feb and get it road worthy again after a few years of neglect.

 

[E-HP]

Nice looking bike!

Which class under California law does your's fall under?

In NYC:
Speed and Class RuleS

• • Speed limit: 15 mph citywide on streets, bike lanes, and greenways.
  • Class 1 & 2: Pedal-assist (Class 1) and throttle-assisted (Class 2) up to 20 mph max design speed are legal, but restricted to the 15 mph city cap.
  • Class 3: Throttle or pedal-assist up to 25 mph are permitted in NYC (unlike outside the city), but still restricted to 15 mph riding
  • 
    
  • In California, I was surprised to find no throttle allowed in class 3
    • Class 1: Pedal-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 2: Throttle-assist up to 20 mph.
    • Class 3: Pedal-assist up to 28 mph. [1]

I guess a CA class 2 based on my testing yesterday. I just turn the CA aux input down and it works great. I guess I could use to resistors or a potentiometer to set the floor of the aux input to 250W or so (turns down to 0W now) to easily set it to 20mph, or just sacrifice one of my CA user modes to set a hard limit, if I ever see any signs of enforcement around here.

 

[E-HP]

Would like to think we build sleepers.
Wolf in sheep's clothing sorta thing.

Good work E-HP, never get tired of reading up on your builds. Been out of play myself. Trying to find my way back, need to finish building a home server. Plan to drag out my trike in Feb and get it road worthy again after a few years of neglect.

Hey nice to see you semi-active here on the forum again. Getting the trike road worthy is a good plan. I found I also needed to get my body roadworthy again, lol.
My bike is in a decent state now, so I started looking at my mid drive again. It probably won't get much use now, but I'm probably going to load it up with the OSF firmware and use it for short exercise rides up the hill and back. I've got a lot of stuff going on right now, but I'm glad I spent some time getting my bike running, since riding is a great mental escape.

 

[Zambam]

We are mostly a hot rodder forum, so it's at the very least, bad form to shame someone based on the power of their vehicle.
I'm not sure if that's what was intended.

How did you come up with shaming? I apologise to those who interpreted my post that way.

I asked about classification because my e-moped, which was legally purchased new in 2021, became illegal in 2025. I have not ridden it for the past few months, fearing If I get stopped, it can be confiscated. I'll repurpose the LFP battery I built for it and junk the rest.

Fate if confiscated: (look at the wry smile on her face at the end)

 

[neptronix]

Without that context, i interpreted that it could be along those lines.
With that context, i still don't understand why you'd ask that..
But no harm no foul.

Would like to think we build sleepers.
Wolf in sheep's clothing sorta thing.

Ideally! that and exercising such power respectfully and within the spirit of the law at a minimum

 

[lnanek]

Generally you get to take your personal belongings when they confiscate. I'd just load the battery in a backpack, make sure the weight of it sits on a long banana seat behind me or whatever while riding by keeping the shoulder straps loose, and ride it until they take the rest. Quick unplug when you pull over.

No reason not to ride it if you are just going to junk it anyway. Citations aren't a big deal. I've gotten them in NYC for oversleeping and leaving a car parked in what became a highway next to the Liberty Inn, sitting in a park after dusk to eat a sandwich, countless things. Not like they go on your criminal record. I left a confiscated 250cc scooter with engine trouble in the pound once and they never even billed me. Just auctioned it off, I imagine.

Tough to believe just removing the throttle, using PAS only up to 25mph, and sticking a foil class 3 sticker off Amazon on it wouldn't be enough to pass, though. Only thing I've ever seen checked here in Cali is 1) are you under 30mph and 2) pedaling by police pacing you in a cruiser and 3) if there's a throttle by rangers.

 

[E-HP]

I ride 90% on multiuse trails, and 10% on the street, to get to the trails. Luckily the network is pretty extensive. I’ve never seen a cop stop an ebike anywhere, but know they do stop them over on the Marin County side of the bay. I’ve never seen a cop or ranger on off-road MTB trails either. The cops that I do see on multiuse trails aren’t patrolling, but just commuting to work , where they patrol the streets on their e-bikes, but for regular law enforcement, not monitoring e-bikes.
I think if they’re going to do ebike enforcement, they should have bikes with higher performance, rather than generic factory Bosch mid drives. Even the highway patrol knows to buy Dodge Challengers, in case they actually need to catch someone.

EDIT 09-12-26 - the side covers are looking too bulky, and I'm convinced that even if I modify them, they're just adding a look of mass. Ok, maybe that's just an excuse, but my plans are changing midstream.
I like my cheap controller, but, I need to streamline, so I'm not too far from making a decision on a Far-Driver Mini12. It's tiny, with a chunky heat sink and rated at 100A line. But, it actually has an impressive phase amp limit of 300A, which I have never seen in such a small package (100mm x 63mm x 42mm). It probably needs more heat sinking if run to it's limits, but I rarely use high continuous current, just what I use accelerating, or climbing a steep hill for or 5 minutes at a time.
The best thing is that I get two features that I've been living without and miss; regen and push button cruise control. Regen can be either on/off or variable.
Because of the small size, I plan to mount it below where the seat stays and seat tube meet. I’ll relocate all controller connections, moving them out of the battery box, and up closer to the controller. The motor cable will route up the seat stays rather than the chain stay.

Someone’s not doing their job. This clock is always off by an hour during daylight savings time lol.


Oh ya, I noticed the other day that there was some clinking noises at slower speeds. Sadly they were the familiar sound of loose spokes. Not sure how that's happening now, after thousands of miles, or if having the bike sitting unused does anything. I doubt it, but I'm no expert. I'll need to take care of that ASAP..