My latest HK battery purchase

[nutnspecial]

While mostly the multistars are the best pound for pound / dollar for dollar, I want like 100a const discharge while only carrying about 10ah on the bike.

I feel like I got lucky finding some fairly common 25c 5ah 6s packs for <30$, and even luckier still HK has now allowed order/ship from the global warehouse. For whatever reason, I'd had 0 luck with international purchase for at least a year.


https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-5000mah-6s-25c-lipo-pack.html

Anyway, with a spare 6s battery and shipping, the total was like 230$ to make a 16s 10ah pack that should be happy and reliable at 100a. I hope it weighs under 10lbs all done-up on the bike.


The biggest concession is I'd love to just go crazy with 22-24s and 100a with the light-ish bike, but the extra packs seem like they'd be too much of a trade-off in bulkiness and weight. I should prob stop thinking about it, because now I'm thinking I shoulda ordered at least one more pack hahaha. It's temping and you just have to gear the bike appropriately for voltage. I like 30-35mph for my bike and riding style.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the HK find. I'll report on condition/balance upon receipt.

 

[dogman dan]

I still would not pull more than 5c from that stuff. But depends on your desire, lasts a few years, or fun as hell for a season.

My rule has become, after the ride, if I need gloves to carry the pack to storage, I pulled too hard on them.

Back when I had more money,, I had no problems with fun as hell for a season. Now I want lipo to last a bit longer, still pretty fun,, I pull 40 amps on 10 ah of 20c packs. Then they last 2-3 years on the bike, and at least one season after than mowing my lawn.

Re riding style,, On singletrack I easily outran a 10,000w bike with my 1000w one. Local knowledge of the trail of course, but when we switched bikes, I could not keep up with him riding my 1000w bike.

Wheelies on that 10,000w bike was cool, but it needed straight roads you could ride 50mph on.

I found my sweet spot for local roads at 2000w, 14s with 40 amps controller. Though clearly posted no motors, the lower power bike is still welcome on local single tracks, so far.

 

[nutnspecial]

Thanks dogman dan. I'm hoping they'll be happy @ up to 100a even though 40% of the rating can be pushing it beyond a safer 25-33%. I don't currently get hot packs, so likely my 'constant' draws are on the light side with a lighter ride.


I think we naturally tend to favor circumstances where our chosen/favored bike performs best?


I like to 'launch' or tear stuff up- to attempt 'warp'





Drawbacks noted!

 

[dogman dan]

If they don't get too hot to hold bare handed at the end of the ride, you are doing fine. That's been my rule of thumb for years.

But if you can afford it,, better c rate gets you less sag on that launch, which is great if you have the cash.

In any case,, you got a great price on those packs. A stellar choice for somebody else who only wants more like 30-40 amps out of 10 ah of them.

 

[nutnspecial]

Yeah, with the obvious lipo disclaimer, it's a great deal. I'd def need alot more of the popular multistars and don't want the weight.
But 30-40 amps seems low for 10ah w/ a 25c continuous rating @ 15%. Isn't 30a for 10ah in 18650 territory? I thought the conservative lipo rule of thumb is 25-33% of 'continuous' ratings, for peak controller setting.

Some grey area comes as you up the amps though, and maybe also the actual battery capacity (like 5ah 5c vs 50ah 5c). I consider my max controller setting as 'continous', but I guess do to gearing/weight I can only really 'burst' the 80-100a, so it then comes down to frequency of full acceleration. With those settings and under heavy use I only noticibly warmed the battery when running 5.8ah of 25c (over 50% cont). I'm sure ambient temp makes a difference to all that too.

 

[dogman dan]

I think you just nailed it,, frequency of the bursts. For me,, and honestly this is in the past now since I got sick, I rode dirt pretty hard with my performance bikes. Where I ride the trails are very twisty and narrow. So a 60 second section might have three WOT's and two full brakes, and more in some places. Do this type of ride for 30 min,, and Owww. I smoked motors, I smoked batteries too.

This is where my rule of thumb came from on 20c lipo, run them at more like 4c. So your 25c maybe run them at 5c. 50 amps. But hell yeah,, if your burst use is more like once a mile at a stop sign,, a very different use. Chances are you don't exceed 40 amps continuous.

Again,, if your packs don't get hot, if you are happy with the sag when you hit WOT,, all is well. Packs I cooked off in the past were always run in 5 ah configuration, so my bursts were then running 10c. it was clear they did not like that. Not the way I rode for sure! But at the time,, I did not mind. Sometimes it was nice to carry only 4 pounds of battery. And they were cheap,, I had money,, let er rip. 8)

 

[Ianhill]

The 4s 10000mah graphene cells are back on sale and cheaper than ever, I've had 6 of them and I'm ordering more at the £39.49 current price its a steal, They cycle over 600 times and take 60a loads per cell easily enough with very little voltage drop.
10of these for an 84v pack with 20ah, push out 120amps and stay ambient, cycles around 600 times and comes in under £400 amazing times.

 

[skeetab5780]

nice score Nut! ya i am still waiting for my international order to come in i used ups instead of fedex since it was $10 less. i got 18s 12ah multi for $210 shipped

I like these compact packs too! altho more WH out of the multi 4s 10ah only $37 right now!

Its been like 5 days so it should be here soon enough!

 

[Blue Ice Bike]

Hobby King has the most exaggerated discharge numbers of all time. We used this on our RC airplanes and they would fail so much under high power draw they were practically disposable. I don't now how you can build a giant ebike battery pack with these things and pull anywhere close to the advertised discharge rate and feel safe. You better check each pack within your pack daily with a cell log and charge that thing outside in a barbecue grill.

 

[999zip999]

The Graphene cells are they more fire resistance ?

 

[Ianhill]

I would agree with you about the discharge ratings,5c at 20°c temp is where I find the sag starts to get heavy on an advertised 10c 4s16ah multistar pack.
But I must stress these packs are for multirotor use with low discharge, so open air and not a great deal of watts no rc planes with high discharge use a different pack but for the intended purpose they work great, they extend run time and weigh less than a high discharge pack.
An ebike does not need 350amps at 84v plus that would be near enough 30kw and a 100mph push bike or whatever, so again they fit ebikes etc well if the system is designed around the discharge rates specially high voltage setups.
I've had around 100 cycles now over one year with very good aging effect so compared to a lead acid pack its a no brainer if your cash strapped can not afford the 18650's and want ease of use for assembling it all then its hard to beat the lipo route they beat the China ebike packs in every way but balance charge and always maintain a safe pack when discharging and your golden.

 

[999zip999]

Somebody tell me the advantage of graphite cells ?
Fire ? Is there a big fire advantage ?

 

[Ianhill]

Somebody tell me the advantage of graphite cells ?
Fire ? Is there a big fire advantage ?

Not really a fire advantage, cells catch fire if punctured, mistreatment or age related wear. They advertise they run cooler but I'm skeptical on that but for the price even if they just cycle well they are worth the money.

 

[skeetab5780]

Im going nuts waiting for these batteries to come in the mail and tracking them from the global website seems to be impossible? Does anyone know how? There is no UPS option to check while searching.

 

[kiwifiat]

Im going nuts waiting for these batteries to come in the mail and tracking them from the global website seems to be impossible? Does anyone know how? There is no UPS option to check while searching.

I ordered 3 x 6S 16000 mAh packs on 20 January shipped from the global HK warehouse and they arrived at my home on the 25th. Shipped by Fedex, tracking worked well.

 

[Ianhill]

My tracking messed up due to the contents of the parcel, UK parcel force took longer to process my box as I ordered 6 148wh packs all in one box they didn't like that they wanted a look it was not hobbykings fault they had packed them all separate and very decent I got them in the end.

 

[skeetab5780]

NICE!! they must've heard me complaining! It came in today

 

[999zip999]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[kiwifiat]

NICE!! they must've heard me complaining! It came in today

Great! I must say at $71.99 for a 16000mAh 6S pack it is hard to beat these multistars and sure saves one hell of a lot of time and effort assembling 18650's.

 

[Ianhill]

They are nearly twice the price in UK and the 20ah are off the chart prices, I had 4 of the 4s 16ah cells a year ago at £38 a piece they are nearly twice that now i dont want to sound like a sale rep for graphene but the prices are equal per watt hour in the UK for the 4s 10ah graphene as the larger multistar packs so while they are on deal it makes sense to get these in UK but others country's vary the 6s 16ah multistar is the best wh per $£.

 

[kiwifiat]

They are nearly twice the price in UK and the 20ah are off the chart prices, I had 4 of the 4s 16ah cells a year ago at £38 a piece they are nearly twice that now i dont want to sound like a sale rep for graphene but the prices are equal per watt hour in the UK for the 4s 10ah graphene as the larger multistar packs so while they are on deal it makes sense to get these in UK but others country's vary the 6s 16ah multistar is the best wh per $£.

Well they jumped up $50USD this week to $121 so I guess I got lucky.

 

[nutnspecial]

Yesterday HK had 8s (twin 4s balance) 5.8ah packs for 20$ !!!!!!!!!
Could of made a 24s 17ah pack for 180$ plus shipping !!!!!!
Or a 34ah 24s pack with conservative >15kw continuous, easily 30kw peak . . . . for around 400$ !!

Globally they're still @ 40$/pc, but wow that 20$ was ridiculous.

I modified my order (op), and luckily the 5.8ah 25c 6s zippys kept their 30$ price. They've risen to about 50$ now.
I got enough for 24s 11.8ah (~260$shipped), and think they just shipped. Should be great for 88v x 80a or maybe 100a depending (7-9kw). Unsure if I'll try to fit 24s on my mantra build though.

I'd build up my faux raptor mid build, but want a slightly bigger motor than the bht/gng/etc. Wish there was one commonly available.

 

[eflyersteve]

What's weird is they still show in the $19.99 bargain bin but when placed in the cart the price is changed to $39.99. I'm building a 12S setup so 6 of those packs would make for a really nice long range setup.

 

[nutnspecial]

The Aussie warehouse showed for 20$ yesterday- I tried putting 9x in my cart
It would be advisable to run them in multiples of 8s anyway. You'd need some lipo surgery to do 12s, and messing with those crimped tabs are not that fun!

 

[ScooterMan101]

2 1/2 weeks ago I bought 2 of those 8s ( with two 4 s balance plugs ) 25c 5800 mAh batteries , they were $ 40 each ( plus $ 32 for shipping so really $ 48 each )
Last week I went back to order a few small items and saw that they were advertised at $ 20 each, But , when you click on the item it shows the real price at $ 40 per pack so they are mis printed on the main battery page. Tried it again just before posting this and same thing happens, they come up at $ 40 each ( $ 39.99 )
Still a great price though.

For anyone getting those also order some 4s JST-XH Balance extension wire/plugs
then
You can do the Hack to take the two 5 wire balance plugs comming off the Battery and eliminate on wire on the side of the two extensions to make a 9 wire/ 2 plug to into your 8s battery charger.
Or buy a Turnigy Multi Pack Serial Balance Board ( XH ).

After a few years of being a Hobby Lipo Skeptic , I am now going to start using them myself. From all that I have read over the last couple of years a few rules are in order.

1) Discharge only 25 % - 33 % of what they state on the battery , just like you write in post above. so ( someone correct me If I am wrong ) for two of those together
for a 16s pack / 5800 mAh , at 25C discharge would equal a real world discharge rate for that pack to be 36 amps to 48 amps continuous .

2 ) Charge at 0.5 c , so since they are rated at 5c charge
( 0.5 x 5 = 2.5c x 5800 mAh = 14.5 max charge ) ( However I am starting off with only 5 amps charge rate to be very conservative )
( someone who has worked with 25c/D and 5c/C rate Hobby Lipo's correct me here if I am wrong ).

In California we have had a drought for 6 years , Well that was just before a Month and a half - two Months ago,
Now we are having record rains, and mudslides and closed roads . The 2nd , series of storms 2 weeks ago completely eliminated the Drought in this part of California, more rain in the last Month and a half then for the previous 5 years !
now this past 6 days of rains , the 3rd series of storms is in progress , all this when I have a few different sets ( s configurations ) of Lipo's to test out .
Let me know if you want me to post any reports here ( I have bought the same batteries as you some 6s Zippy's, along with 7 and 8s ) or start another thread.
>

Yesterday HK had 8s (twin 4s balance) 5.8ah packs for 20$ !!!!!!!!!
Could of made a 24s 17ah pack for 180$ plus shipping !!!!!!
Or a 34ah 24s pack with conservative >15kw continuous, easily 30kw peak . . . . for around 400$ !!

Globally they're still @ 40$/pc, but wow that 20$ was ridiculous.

I modified my order (op), and luckily the 5.8ah 25c 6s zippys kept their 30$ price. They've risen to about 50$ now.
I got enough for 24s 11.8ah (~260$shipped), and think they just shipped. Should be great for 88v x 80a or maybe 100a depending (7-9kw). Unsure if I'll try to fit 24s on my mantra build though.

I'd build up my faux raptor mid build, but want a slightly bigger motor than the bht/gng/etc. Wish there was one commonly available.