My non hub build

[flyinmonkie]

Well, I have a build thread in the pics and video section, but being a non-hub design, it has gotten little attention or answers to several questions I have asked. Disappointed with no response to my questions there I figured I would move it over here to the fastly expanding non-hub section. Alas, I have no idea how to move a topic or if it is possible, so I will paste a link to it.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6977

So have a look. If you have any answers or comments post them here as to not let them be buried by the hub obsessed people here.

I do like the give and take between the two camps, and each to their own. The feuds are very controlled and informative so keep them up.

So a little about my bike here. It's a Marin "commuter" bike, or their low end Mt. bike. I am using a currie scooter mooter and driving it all by chain through the rear cassette so I can use the gears. I have revised the drive from 1 chain to 2 chains to get the gear reduction I want... er kind of want. You have to work with what you can get sometimes.

flyinmonkie

 

[buzzfirst]

Hello, I am a little unsure of what you mean by two chain drive. Are you planning to further gear reduce your motor speed to compensate for the difference in wheel sizes? Or are you just running two chains to the cassette? I like the keep it simple build and then IF you want to you could upgrade different parts/assemblies.

 

[flyinmonkie]

I'm going to run one chain from the motor to the crank, and then one from the crank to the rear wheel. That allows me to use 2 different size sprockets at the crank to get a gear reduction. My motor can run up to 2600 rpm, but I only want 500 rpm at the back. I am not going to get that low with my first set up, but it is a trial to see if it all works.

 

[buzzfirst]

Okay, I get where you are going now. Sounds cool. Here's an idea for the needed reduction, is there any way to replace the largest sprocket at the rear hub with a lot larger one? Some of the cassettes have changeable sprockets but I don't know how big they go. I've converted my bike to electric with the help of a small scooter and a donor bike so I know gearing is required.

 

[etard]

,Nice fabrication FlyinMonkey. What are you doing about front crank freewheeling? Also, how heavy is all that diamond plate?

 

[flyinmonkie]

Buzzfirst,

I've thought about that, but I really want to use the rear gears. It is very flat where I live, but I want the challenge of building a geared bike. I'd like to keep it to as close to stock bike parts as possible, but I've had to do a fair amount of custom work. I'll see how the stock gears go. If they don't work I have already though about using road chain ring on the back to help slow down the rear wheel and give me enough torque. That is the real mystery for me, the amount of torque I have and if the motor will actually turn the wheel over the wheel with the the gears I have.

etard,

Cheers for that. I'm using a stock freewheel adapter. I'm just waiting for my second one to get here as the first one I got is hardened steel and is extremely hard. I couldn't drill it at all. So I have ordered another one that should fit my chain rings better and be drillable if needed. That's right I said drillabale. It's a technical term. As for the diamond plate, it is aluminum and quite thin, so it is actually quite lite. I'm more worried about the SLA's I'll be using as electron buckets.

I should have some more pictures of the drive system after the weekend as I'll have most of it together. I'll put them up in this thread to keep it all here.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Well, I have my motor mounts all sorted and built, and most of my cowling built. I am just waiting on my new freewheel adapter to build my crank. I can't mount my motor until it comes and my crank is built, because I don't know exactly where it goes until I can line up my gears. Other than that I have everything except my gauges. I'm still trying to find some suitable gauges that I want to use. Anyone have any ideas on analog volt and ammeters that can run on 24 volts?

 

[John in CR]

Well, I have my motor mounts all sorted and built, and most of my cowling built. I am just waiting on my new freewheel adapter to build my crank. I can't mount my motor until it comes and my crank is built, because I don't know exactly where it goes until I can line up my gears. Other than that I have everything except my gauges. I'm still trying to find some suitable gauges that I want to use. Anyone have any ideas on analog volt and ammeters that can run on 24 volts?

24 volts is fairly common on larger boat and sailboats. Mention the word marine and prices always go up, but you typically get durability and water resistance.

John

 

[Fumesucker]

An analog ammeter isn't going to care about voltage, all it cares about is how many electrons are going through the shunt in a given length of time.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Thanks fumesucker and John. I was thinking marine or RV's for meters. I'll look into it this week. Hopefully my freewheel adapter shows up and I can do my final assembly and testing in the next week or two.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Well here are some pictures of my drive sprocket set up. I have used a freewheel adapter to attach a freewheel to the motor shaft. I am still waiting for my crank freewheel adapter. The supplier didn't get my email so he hadn't sent it last week. I should have it by the middle of the week now. Then comes final assembly and testing. I have a feeling my gearing will be off, but I have a few ideas on how to bring it into the sweet spot.

 

[fechter]

I think the gearing will be pretty tall if you connect that straight to the rear cluster. Are you planning on a double reduction?

The adapter looks like it should work, but may tend to loosen over time. Normally you want the two set screws at 90 degrees on the shaft. A little loctite on the shaft and bushing will help a lot.

 

[flyinmonkie]

fechter,

Cheers, for that. It will definitely be steep if I go straight the to rear end. I am going to go through a reduction at the crank. It might still be a little steep, but I'll find out soon enough. I have a few ideas on how to sort that if it is the case, just more work than I want to do at the moment. I really want to get it running and see how all goes.

Loctite is called for on several parts of my assembly, including the drive assembly. The adapter came with the screws at 180 degrees so I'll live with it.

 

[MitchJi]

Loctite is called for on several parts of my assembly, including the drive assembly. The adapter came with the screws at 180 degrees so I'll live with it.

Hi,

I like the way you integrated the motor mount, battery tray and housing.

It might be a good idea to grind flat spots on the shaft to give the set screws a place to seat.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Cheers MitchJi,

If you look at the pics up just a little bit, you see I was ahead of you and have flats already ground. I'm looking forward to getting it together to see it complete. Should be starting the final assembly this weekend.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Well, my freewheel adapter came, so I built my crank. Not to bad, just cut the middle out of the chain rings and bolt it on. The adapter is quit cheap and came with no grease in it at all. I pulled it apart and greased it so it should last more than a day. I can't believe built it with no grease. Anyway, I may upgrade if it doesn't meet my standards.

 

[flyinmonkie]

My basic bike is finally together and I got a chance to pedal it around this weekend. It pedals very nice for a low end Mt bike. I am happy with the way it handles without any of the electric power system on it. I will be mounting the motor, batteries, and cowling over the next week. It will be interesting to see how it pedals and handles then. I hope to be test riding under epower in 2 weeks max. That will be the true test of the gearing. As I do the final mounting of the motor and batteries, I'll post pics. Right now, except for the freewheel crank and the extremely short chain, it looks like a standard bike. That will change soon.

The whole build has taken a bit longer than I expected but, as always, I ran into a few unexpected problems to solve. I can see the end, or the next beginning (testing) anyway. I'm excited to see if it works at all, lol. I'm trying to not have any expectations of what it will be like.

FM

 

[deecanio]

Hi flyinmonkie,

it's always a good idea to pedal test your bike first imo, i always go for a hard ride prior to installing my electrics just to make sure she's mechanically sound before you up the power and weight.
One downside is it always looks better "naked" but meh,you can't have it all
looking forward to your bike a lot as we have a similair drive system so i'll be wtahcing with great interest,btw nice job on the crank.
Best of luck mate, hope it goes real sweet.

Cheers,

D

 

[flyinmonkie]

I'm starting to bolt the motor on now and it is coming along well. I have attached some pics of how it will be attached and how the drive train lines up. I'll be driving the large chainring on the crank and getting my first stage of reduction there. I'm driving the rear wheel off the small chainring on the crank. In the lower gears this will provide me with more reduction. Unfortunately the higher gears will go the other way. I may just not use them, unless I'm pedaling with no power. It's all a test bed so far to trial different gearing options.

 

[buzzfirst]

This is a great thread and a neat build. I was trying to picture what those freewheels looked like and how they were attached, now I see the photos! You are the king of diamond plate!!! One thing that will be tricky is to figure out a chainguard for the freewheel/crank chain. The reason I mention this is that if jeans get caught in the sprocket and your leg or ankle gets in a bind your body parts will give/break before a good pair of jeans will. Seen it done although not on a bike. Gonna be a cool bike.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Cheers buzzfirst. Well diamond plate is easy to work with and durable. Oh yeah, I also get scraps the right size for free. As for the jeans in the crank, I always ride with a strap that keeps my pant leg in check. A little velcro and nylon webbing and you're sorted.

Well, the motor is almost in it's final spot and the battery tray is bolted on as well. I just need a couple of small electrical parts and my last battery. I'll be wiring the bike this week and finishing the sides of the cowling. I hope to be test riding by next week. All depends on when I get the parts though. Here are some pics of where everything will go. I haven't decided whether I mount the charger on the bike or not. I have the room as you can see below, but it may come in a phase 2 after I sort the bike out and get my head around how to wire it in.

Oh yeah, I also have to make up an instrument panel and sort exactly how I am going to mount that. Pretty sure it will be bolted in the handle bar clamp on the stem and come back over the stem. It will hold an analog ammeter and volt meter. Should have a motorcycle feel to it.

 

[flyinmonkie]

Giant leaps forward and huge set backs. Well, I got it 99% complete and had my first test run. As I expected it was way over geared. It wanted to go fast, but just couldn't get there. Never drew more than 30 amps though. I was pleased with it running as expected and just thought I would see how the wheel spun in the air. Well... I let the wheel hit the ground and something let loose in the motor. The motor still runs fine, it just doesn't drive the output shaft anymore. I am guessing that a shear pin has broken but haven't had a chance to tear it all apart.

Well, I'm now working out the gearing I need. Think I'm going to have to go with a recumbent uber big chainring in front and adapt road chainrings for the back. That most likely means switching to a cassette hub. Mmmm... Just more money. Anyway, the drive set up worked well. I had to put a tensioner in the system as it was a half a link out. I have also used the cheapest freewheel I could find on the crank (just to trial the set up). It is a rather quiet freewheel compared to a white, but the chains were louder than the freewheel and standard bike noise. Nothing I can't live with though. Below is a pic of the drive set up.

 

[cargo]

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[flyinmonkie]

Thanks Cargo,

Do the run standard bike chain? I've been trying to keep it as much stock bike parts as possible, but big sprockets are hard to find at the LBS.

 

[cargo]

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