Need basic advice on basic e-bikes

[alex1sun]

Hi, I'm from Australia, a country with 250W motor limits for e-bikes.

I'm trying to choose between two bikes for an 18km (36km return) commute to uni. I'm OK with pedaling and just need some assist. There are no hills all along the way, so I think I don't need a central motor. I'm also fine with taking a cheap bike and gradually upgrading (or eventually replacing) it as I learn things. So here are two bikes I like:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ELECTRIC-MOUNTAIN-BIKE-NEW-BICYCLE-200w-LITHIUM-36V-10-amp-26-WHEELS-/181013863382?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Bikes&hash=item2a25445bd6&_uhb=1#ht_1105wt_1159
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Folding-Bike-200w-10-amp-20inch-wheels-/180917884755?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Bikes&hash=item2a1f8bd753&_uhb=1#ht_820wt_1159
Could you please advice which one should I take, or at least what are the advantages and disadvantages of these designs? I don't think I need the compactness of the foldable bike, but it seems to look more comfortable as it would allow to sit straight. I however don't know whether it's good or bad. I'm not sure a test ride would help either, as I don't really know how to ride properly.

Also would this bike be a much better choice? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PANA-XROSS-Powered-by-PANASONIC-black-Electric-bike-electric-bicycle-ebike-/120940560009?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Bikes&hash=item1c289e7e89&_uhb=1

Any advice is really appreciated!
Thanks!

 

[dogman dan]

Well, I'm pretty biased towards a lot more wattage. (Yank) But the basic motor setup on all three bikes will do what you are expecting. As would a similar kit, added to a bike that is more to your liking. All three bikes you linked to are more or less the same, a small planetary gearmotor.

You'll ge a pretty low top speed, a true 200w won't really go 30 kph into any wind or up a hill. Add some panniers to carry stuff, and it gets even worse if it's a headwind. But your ride is not super long, and since it's flat 200w will be a very nice assist for you on the nice days.

The main thing, is that a "legal" bike won't go a lot faster than you could pedal anyway. Only about 150w of that power will reach the rubber, and you could pedal that. So expect to ride about the same speed you do now, but with much less effort.

As for the bike, I think folders are strictly for elevators and trains. If you don't have to fold, get a regular bike. For a daily ride, the fit of the bike to your body is simply far more important than any other thing. If you are tall like I am, then you can make a medium size bike fit by getting an extra long seatpost, and putting bmx riser handlebars on the bike.

I'd be inclined to sneak a bit more power myself, by getting a kit from Emissions free, or some other out of country source. Then run at least 400w. Enough to cruise 25-30 kphThose little motors can take it easy, only stupid laws have em running on 200w.

What ever your choice ends up being, expect to have to do some basic repairs and troubleshooting. Mostly this means detecting which plug is looking plugged, but has a contact not touching inside. Or determinig whether a battery actually got charged or not with a voltmeter, seeing if any power is leaving the charger, that sort of thing. Plus your basic bike maintenance, learn to snug up loose spokes, adjust brakes, adjust a derailur cable. The ebay bike won't come in a well tuned condition for sure. Or it will quickly lose tune, as new cables stretch, new spokes settle in.

 

[alex1sun]

Thanks a lot for your help, dogman!

That's very valuable advice!

Have a great day!

 

[Sunder]

The main thing, is that a "legal" bike won't go a lot faster than you could pedal anyway. Only about 150w of that power will reach the rubber, and you could pedal that. So expect to ride about the same speed you do now, but with much less effort.

A reasonably fit person could average 150w for several hours. Depending on the weight of the person, bike, wind, and a few other factors, 150w should get you to low 30km/hs. Unfortunately, doubling it by putting in your own effort won't get you to 60km/h, but 300w, only half of which you're contributing, should get you over 40km/h

So I think as long as your bike is correctly geared, and you're willing to pedal as hard as you normally, do, you should be able to get 10-15km/h more with an electric motor.

 

[Samd]

Which city are you in Alex1sun? Some of us locals can help, and some locals are also vendors that can help you backed by a reputation from here. But best to find someone local rather than interstate.

Some of us get together for group rides too, so you can see a few different builds in action.

Cheers from Ballarat.

 

[Dauntless]

Not sure if you meant you were just BUYING or BUILDING. If you're building, first thing to decide is if you want like everyone else has, then you'll get great advice here. If you want something different, there'll be less good advice.

So I had someone I know (Greenie hater that he is) try out riding one of my LITTLE bikes to work for a week, 3 miles each way, twice a day including lunch. He's a bit shorter than average but rather active.

So he wound up sold, except:

1) The 250watt bike may or may not have reached 15mph for him. You have an hour at lunch, if going home takes up to 20 minutes each way instead of up to 10, that's a problem.

2) Even for someone shorter, he found it uncomfortable. First time I rode one of them to his house and he tried it out he thought he could handle it just fine and went pedalling uphill where he'd never have made it with a regular bike; but once he was riding it for real, it was painful to sit on as the trip wore on and the position felt increasingly uncomfortable.

So the result was that a guy who was inclined to hate the thing liked saving $15 on gas that week, but what seemed fine at first really didn't work so well afterall. I've never much cared for that bike not only because it's too small but there's the hills I live in, etc. Not only is it difficult up a longer, steeper hill, but unstable going down. He got to ride on flat land but there were other problems.

You're covering as much as 25miles/40km in a day if you don't get to go the most direct route, make sure you're not starting off thinking "This ain't so bad." A few miles down the road it WILL be so bad. (Get a catchers mitt for a seat.) And get as much speed as you can.

 

[TheBeastie]

If your in melbourne you might want to message winkinatcha, he is pretty friendly and sells AU standard compatible kits that I believe are also upgradable to faster wattage if you feel inclined later on.
http://frankencycle.me/
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=19652

 

[alex1sun]

Thanks everyone!

I'm located in Canberra (hopefully for at least three more years). Since I don't currently have a conventional bike and never assembled mechanical or electrical things, I was thinking about buying a pre-made electric bike rather than building one myself.

Have any of you ridden bikes from Beyond-Oil? I particularly like this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-26-Adult-Electric-e-Bike-36V-Lithium-7-Speed-Bicycle-150-FREE-extras-/160921556306?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Bikes&hash=item2577ac1552&_uhb=1#ht_33372wt_1393

I think I'm quite OK with lower speeds in order to be within legal limits (since I'm fond of audiobooks and would love spending some extra time on my bike while listening).

My route also has no hills, and we usually don't have strong winds in Canberra. By the way, from your experience how much does a headwind reduce your speed? For example if a headwind is 20 km/h, does it typically reduce your speed by about 10 km/h?

Also do you ride if it's raining? How does an electric bike with a battery and wires handle rainy weather?

Thank you!

 

[TheBeastie]

Thanks everyone!

I was thinking about buying a pre-made electric bike rather than building one myself.

Have any of you ridden bikes from Beyond-Oil? I particularly like this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-26-Adult-Electric-e-Bike-36V-Lithium-7-Speed-Bicycle-150-FREE-extras-/160921556306?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Bikes&hash=item2577ac1552&_uhb=1#ht_33372wt_1393

I think I'm quite OK with lower speeds in order to be within legal limits (since I'm fond of audiobooks and would love spending some extra time on my bike while listening).

My route also has no hills, and we usually don't have strong winds in Canberra. By the way, from your experience how much does a headwind reduce your speed? For example if a headwind is 20 km/h, does it typically reduce your speed by about 10 km/h?

Also do you ride if it's raining? How does an electric bike with a battery and wires handle rainy weather?

Looks OK for a cheap prebuilt ebike in Australia, the motor looks quite small so I would say there is zero room for any overclocking/overvolting etc if you want more speed down the road. I am willing to bet you will be a bit like me and you will be surprised once you get one how much you wish you could just go that bit faster, especially if your using it to get to work.

Find out how much shipping to Act is going to be, could be a surprise charge there.

One thing that stood out was the claim the bike uses a "36 V Lithium Polymer Battery", this is almost certainly not true. Its most likely a "Lithium LiFePO4 or Lithium NiCoMn" battery (which is what you want really). I would say the seller isn't familiar with what he is selling, hopefully, or he likes to lie. Actually it seems to be a common problem for ebike noobs to incorrectly name their battery chemistry, but you would expect more from a seller.

I think disc brakes are good, I had was going behind a car a bit down hill yesterday and he suddenly slammed on his brakes and pulled to the side just a bit to nicely cut me off going anywhere forward safely, I had to use my disc brakes and straight out skidded rubber for about 60cm to stop in time and not hit into the back of him, I wondered afterwards how I would of faired with v-brakes in that situation.

What I do like about these prebuilt ebikes is the frame, if later on in your purchase you did want something faster you could use the frame and hack the bejesus out of this bike with a faster kit and have a nice place to keep your battery.

 

[d8veh]

Thanks everyone!

I'm located in Canberra hopefully for at least three more years. Since I don't currently have a conventional bike and never assembled mechanical or electrical things, I was thinking about buying a pre-made electric bike rather than building one myself.

Have any of you ridden bikes from Beyond-Oil? I particularly like this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-26-Adult-Electric-e-Bike-36V-Lithium-7-Speed-Bicycle-150-FREE-extras-/160921556306?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Bikes&hash=item2577ac1552&_uhb=1#ht_33372wt_1393

I think I'm quite OK with lower speeds in order to be within legal limits (since I'm fond of audiobooks and would love spending some extra time on my bike while listening).

My route also has no hills, and we usually don't have strong winds in Canberra. By the way, from your experience how much does a headwind reduce your speed? For example if a headwind is 20 km/h, does it typically reduce your speed by about 10 km/h?

Also do you ride if it's raining? How does an electric bike with a battery and wires handle rainy weather?

Thank you!

That bike looks OK. It's all standard Chinese stuff that you find on a plethora of bikes in that price range. Spares and replacement batteries are readily available cheaply from a number of sources.
The wind won't slow you down much unless it's very strong (above 20kph), but you'll use more power from the battery, which would reduce range a bit.

It's Ok to ride these bikes in showers, but torrential rain might be a problem. As long as it's not too windy, I use one of those capes that go right over me, the handlebars and the seat, so that both the bike and myself are protected from the rain. You can get them for less than $20. They're no good in strong wind because you get blown all over the place.

If you get one of these bikes, you might want to pur a strap around the battery to stop it from rattling and moving. the locking mechanism isn't enough to keep the battery still on bumby roads, which wears the connections underneath. Many people put a strap arround to hold everything steady and reduce the wear.

Sometimes these bikes come speed-limited to 25kph. If that's the case, you take the panel off the compartment under the battery (4 screws) and disconnect the two white wires on the controller.

 

[alex1sun]

Thanks!

Concerning the batteries, it seems that many places call standard e-bike batteries lithium polymer:
http://www.nycewheels.com/lithium-polymer-ae-3610.html
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lithium-Polymer-Battery-36V-10A-Electric-Bicycle-e-bike-36Volt-10-Amp-/170618570502#ht_500wt_689

Is that a correct name?

 

[dogman dan]

Yes, but it's generic. All the lithium batteries are lithium polymer. There are many varieties of lithium polymer, but only lithium cobalt has become widely called lipo, short for lithium polymer. "lipo" RC lipo, or lipo from hobby king usually refers to a battery intended for radio controlled cars and helicopeters etc, that we adapt to bike use.

Chances are best though, that a bike battery is lifepo4 or limn, because the battery chemistry is a bit safer than "lipo".

Any retailer that wants to make a secret of what chemistry battery they sell gets a downcheck in my book. Fine if they make you ask, but not fine if the only reply is "lithium polymer". What would you say if a car seller wouldn't tell you if the car ran on gasoline, ethanol, LPG or diesel?

 

[TheBeastie]

Looking at Wikipedia for Lithium-ion and lithium-polymer they have separate links for both descriptions. Thought someone might find it interesting.

For http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
For Lithium-ion they tend to mention and place lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) and lithium nickel manganese cobalt (NiMnCo) on this page more.

And then tend to only talk about RC Lipo on the lithium polymer link below, and mention Lithium Cobalt (LiCo) mostly.
And even start at the top of the page with "Not to be confused with Lithium-ion battery."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery

 

[Samd]

For the money that is a pretty ok sort of bike.

I have the same rear motor in my shed. If you decide later on that you want a bit more poke, it'll handle being screwed up to 700 watts ok without complaint. But you have no reason to do so if you don't want to.

I'd say for the money its an ok sort of purchase for a premade chinese bike.

 

[Ykick]

Welcome to the sport and "addiction" of eBikes. I took a look at that eBay bike and it looks similar to many delivery bikes running around here in NYC. Not a fast or powerful bike but it will poke along on flat and give decent assist on hills.

I've seen new folks find much worse bikes to start out. Be prepared to learn about repairs/maintenance (minimum tire servicing) or look for somebody reasonable to hire for that work.

If you get hooked it will be a fine bike to mod or just tweak it and get another bike going. Most of us start out with one and end up with several. Hard to find one bike that covers all the bases and nice to have a spare when you need transport. Therefore, more than one is not as ridiculous as it might sound?

Roll your own batteries and one major investment there (it's really ALL about the batteries) can be shared across several bike platforms.

Good luck, 'dunno much about riding down under but enjoy the ride and stay safe!