New 26Ah NMC Cell from a123

[sigimem]

Have you seen this? Does anyone know more about it? seems interesting for a build where high current and good energy density is required

 

[liveforphysics]

Interesting... reminds me of Farasis cells: https://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf

That cell is from 2011...

It's 32Ah today, and higher power density.

The A123 NMC pouch has fairly good power density, but pretty low energy density for applications that are weight sensitive.

 

[sigimem]

The A123 NMC pouch has fairly good power density, but pretty low energy density for applications that are weight sensitive.

I found that it might be spot on for my battery pack:

- I would need about 100V or slightly under 120V wenn HOC
- around 2kwh+
- 250A continous
- 400A pulse
- 15kg max without the case
- 1000 cycles or more
- reasonable price

I have a battery chart and so far this might be the only one that could fullfill all requirements (except the price which I don't know). you could build a 28s battery with around 370A continous current (calculated from the power density given that it is continous) almost 3kwh with a weight of 15,4 kg.

Luke do you know if they are as good as claimed?
Do you have info where to get them?

 

[999zip999]

We need a price. What good is it without price.

 

[liveforphysics]

I've not tested one yet so I can't comment on its performance.

For A123's sake it's a big step in the direction of having a relevant product in the market again, which is great to see.

Kinda a pity it's 180Wh/kg in a world thats moved on to ~240Wh/kg cells, but it's better than where they were stuck before.

 

[dustNbone]

The energy density isn't great, but if they can take a whoopin' anywhere near what the AMP20s can there's a market for that. Like if you want to charge an ebike in 20 minutes at a public EV charging station. Or something.

 

[cell_man]

Does anyone know if these new A123 NMC cells have the same or similar packaging requirements (uniform pressure across the cell), as their LiFePO4 pouch cells?

 

[999zip999]

Paul I just Megawrap them (123 20ah) and have 930 cycles 4yrs. 24s at 40amp, at now 90amps. I do hhave 4 end plates for A123 , but come on they weigh a ton. I guess at 200 amps it might need true compression. How long are your old packs in service ?

 

[sigimem]

Does anyone know if these new A123 NMC cells have the same or similar packaging requirements (uniform pressure across the cell), as their LiFePO4 pouch cells?

in the pdf it says:
Packaging is convenient in our existing module hardware and easily scalable for multiple applications.

I guess thats a hint in this direction.

Paul can you get your hands on these?

 

[Punx0r]

Does anyone know if these new A123 NMC cells have the same or similar packaging requirements (uniform pressure across the cell), as their LiFePO4 pouch cells?

I think these requirements apply to pouch cells generally, not just A123 lifepo4

 

[liveforphysics]

Does anyone know if these new A123 NMC cells have the same or similar packaging requirements (uniform pressure across the cell), as their LiFePO4 pouch cells?

I think these requirements apply to pouch cells generally, not just A123 lifepo4

Yep, the purpose is to keep the micro gas bubbles that form between plates to migrate out from between the plates so they aren't causing ionically inactive places where the bubbles are in the cell. This means 2-4psi across the cell face is useful to every liquid electrolyte pouch cell.

 

[999zip999]

How much where ?

 

[liveforphysics]

How much where ?

Just out of curiosity, what would be the appeal to buy VS cells with say 25-30% higher energy density?

 

[Ianhill]

Very interesting thread regarding cell compression, Rc lipos have heat wrap as the compression layer with age they puff up with trapped gases im wondering could they benefit cycle wise, heat transfer wise and safety wise from being placed between steel plates and slightly compressed like their larger counter parts.
safety wise because the metal compression would not flex like its rc plastic heat wrap counterpart which to be fare is built to a cost and weight is a big issue rather than safety and longevity they would then be in a heat sink to keep cells temps lower and improving cycle life any views ?

 

[liveforphysics]

Very interesting thread regarding cell compression, Rc lipos have heat wrap as the compression layer with age they puff up with trapped gases im wondering could they benefit cycle wise, heat transfer wise and safety wise from being placed between steel plates and slightly compressed like their larger counter parts.
safety wise because the metal compression would not flex like its rc plastic heat wrap counterpart which to be fare is built to a cost and weight is a big issue rather than safety and longevity they would then be in a heat sink to keep cells temps lower and improving cycle life any views ?

The shrink does nothing beneficial, and perhaps causes minor harms from loading the edges of the cells while providing no pressure mid-plane. It also lets capillary action wick moisture up along the pouch seams where the cell is most corrosion vulnerable.

 

[Ianhill]

Very interesting thread regarding cell compression, Rc lipos have heat wrap as the compression layer with age they puff up with trapped gases im wondering could they benefit cycle wise, heat transfer wise and safety wise from being placed between steel plates and slightly compressed like their larger counter parts.
safety wise because the metal compression would not flex like its rc plastic heat wrap counterpart which to be fare is built to a cost and weight is a big issue rather than safety and longevity they would then be in a heat sink to keep cells temps lower and improving cycle life any views ?

The shrink does nothing beneficial, and perhaps causes minor harms from loading the edges of the cells while providing no pressure mid-plane. It also lets capillary action wick moisture up along the pouch seams where the cell is most corrosion vulnerable.

Perfect timing for me to see this thread im in the process of going 16s lipo so I will be implementing this defiantly.

 

[agniusm]

Looks like my kits will be of some use in the future Energy density for NMC is not great but we must wait for further details on output performance and that should make deciding factor.
Same amount of energy in LG INR18650-HG2 would weigh at 422g and output ~170A

 

[999zip999]

Luke VS cells ? Don't understand that term ?

 

[agniusm]

Well, if that 130ish grams translate in higher power and longer life, guess its ok. I would not say that switching to nmc is inovation, rather late jump to a gone train

 

[Doctorbass]

Very interesting thread regarding cell compression, Rc lipos have heat wrap as the compression layer with age they puff up with trapped gases im wondering could they benefit cycle wise, heat transfer wise and safety wise from being placed between steel plates and slightly compressed like their larger counter parts.
safety wise because the metal compression would not flex like its rc plastic heat wrap counterpart which to be fare is built to a cost and weight is a big issue rather than safety and longevity they would then be in a heat sink to keep cells temps lower and improving cycle life any views ?

The shrink does nothing beneficial, and perhaps causes minor harms from loading the edges of the cells while providing no pressure mid-plane. It also lets capillary action wick moisture up along the pouch seams where the cell is most corrosion vulnerable.

Amen!!

and in fact i think that the shrink wrap is doing exactly the opposite as normal cell compression is supposed to do.. it trap all micro bubbles in the center of teh cell and keep edges compressed with minimal bubbles...

 

[agniusm]

Shrink wrapping soft shell cells is always a bad idea. I put two sheets of 2.5mm FR4. Sure it does not solve compression problem but it is a tad better than without

 

[Ianhill]

Very interesting thread regarding cell compression, Rc lipos have heat wrap as the compression layer with age they puff up with trapped gases im wondering could they benefit cycle wise, heat transfer wise and safety wise from being placed between steel plates and slightly compressed like their larger counter parts.
safety wise because the metal compression would not flex like its rc plastic heat wrap counterpart which to be fare is built to a cost and weight is a big issue rather than safety and longevity they would then be in a heat sink to keep cells temps lower and improving cycle life any views ?

The shrink does nothing beneficial, and perhaps causes minor harms from loading the edges of the cells while providing no pressure mid-plane. It also lets capillary action wick moisture up along the pouch seams where the cell is most corrosion vulnerable.

Amen!!

and in fact i think that the shrink wrap is doing exactly the opposite as normal cell compression is supposed to do.. it trap all micro bubbles in the center of teh cell and keep edges compressed with minimal bubbles...

Your zero electric is very impressive I love it.

 

[Doctorbass]

Your zero electric is very impressive I love it.

Thanks!