New Bafang Crank-Drives

rjsimmo said:
Mid drive vs Rear Hub
DIY vs off the Shelf
Australia
Need Help !

I ride a Focus belt drive with rear gear hub (non electric) and love the way that rides. It looks simple and neat and clean which is why I admired Kepler's carbon frame friction drive (that eventually became a rear hubber commuter) actually.

I have a BBS02 750w on a 2014 Focus planet as my daily commute and have no issues recommending it. Mine is the IGH but the chain version I see no reason that you couldn't use one of the adapter plates to mount your belt drive. I chose to go with EM3ev for the full kit including the 48v frame mount battery and have had no issues with mine after nearly 2000km.
This is a very easy install to fit to the Focus, there is a picture of mine on page 83 of this thread. Have a look at the triangle battery packs from EM3ev if you want that extra speed and range.
 
rjsimmo said:
Mid drive vs Rear Hub
DIY vs off the Shelf
Australia
Need help
s

Try these guys, http://www.af-tech.com.au/Products_Ebikes.html
They are in melbourne vic. I have the 1680w kit on a giant glory and it'll do 60kmh on flat, 68kmh down hill, and cruise at 35kmh for 60-70km range on a 20ah battery. I'm very happy with the quality, design features, and customer service is excellent.
 
Mods, the rjsimmo question, and the single answer (so far) should be moved to their own thread. The BBS0X and AFT kits each have their proponents. AFT is based in Australia, and for the BBS0X, ES member kepler is the Australian authority on them.
 
Question: I bought myself a Cannondal Bad Boy with Rohlof hub today (and yesssss: i'm happy!!!!) for my first e-bike project. It has an eccentrical bracket (see pic) and therefore i'm not sure if i can install a mid drive. Is it possible to install a BBS02?

Tnx for your reaction!

 
Maarten said:
Question: I bought myself a Cannondal Bad Boy with Rohlof hub today (and yesssss: i'm happy!!!!) for my first e-bike project. It has an eccentrical bracket (see pic) and therefore i'm not sure if i can install a mid drive. Is it possible to install a BBS02?

Tnx for your reaction!


Probably not, unless you can rotate the bottom bracket so that the thickness between the inside and outside is less than 12 mm.
 
TomHed50 said:
Can i use a bbs if the frame has pressfit bb?

Depends, but not without fabrication of parts. If the bottom bracket is 68 mm wide and the wall thickness is thin enough then you could make adapters to install it if you have access to a mill or lathe (bb30 for example). If the bottom bracket is a BB92 or similar wide bottom bracket then you can't adapt it without modifying the frame to make the bottom bracket narrower.
 
mushymelon said:
snowranger said:
TNA Battery says they have 750W in stock. I asked whether they were the 9-fet versions, and they said yes.

If Bafang doesn't have them in the factory yet then these guys don't either!

I think I'll wait then. Thanks
 
tahustvedt said:
Maarten said:
Question: I bought myself a Cannondal Bad Boy with Rohlof hub today (and yesssss: i'm happy!!!!) for my first e-bike project. It has an eccentrical bracket (see pic) and therefore i'm not sure if i can install a mid drive. Is it possible to install a BBS02?

Tnx for your reaction!


Probably not, unless you can rotate the bottom bracket so that the thickness between the inside and outside is less than 12 mm.

Hi Tahustvedt, if 12 mm is the limit it should be possible when I make chain a bit longer (rotating the bracket is used for tensioning the chain). Other 'challenge' is tensioning the chain when middrive is installed. Maybe it's better to go for hub-drive...

tnx
 
Maarten said:
Other 'challenge' is tensioning the chain when middrive is installed. Maybe it's better to go for hub-drive...

Yes indeed. You can try a half-link chain, this would allow more possibilities, but still risky.
 
tahustvedt said:
Maarten said:
Question: I bought myself a Cannondal Bad Boy with Rohlof hub today (and yesssss: i'm happy!!!!) for my first e-bike project. It has an eccentrical bracket (see pic) and therefore i'm not sure if i can install a mid drive. Is it possible to install a BBS02?

Tnx for your reaction!


Probably not, unless you can rotate the bottom bracket so that the thickness between the inside and outside is less than 12 mm.

Maarten, I suggest you disregard the BBS role in chain tensioning for now. Just get the drive clearance sorted if you can by rotating the Internal BB shell. If that works you can then just fit a chain-stay mounted tensioner (there are many varieties available) on the lower chain run to manage chain tension. Much better than juggling chain lengths.
Savvas.
 
what about installs on 122mm wide fat bike BBs like this surface604 frame.... ?

edit: crap 68mm only...
 

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valvefloat said:
what about installs on 122mm wide fat bike BBs
Could you not mill the BB down to 75mm and use only one nut to secure the unit?
 
Ken Taylor said:
Where is there a machine shop in Bali? I've been looking for one to manufacture drop outs, bottom bracket tubes and ream head tubes for the wooden frames I'm building there. A lot of people have told me the nearest machine shop is in Surabaya.
Answer:
C.V. Dharma Putra Benkel Reparasi Mesin Jln. Setia Budi 79 Denpasar (0361)426673.

They're real artisans. Following up on my munched plastic gear replacement/improvement idea, I responded to the shop's call to come get the goods they'd created: Brass Gears.jpgSpittin' images in hefty shiny brass. Sans bearings. They'd forgotten that I'd specified bearings to match. That was good because since my drop-off/order I'd gone back to Kepler's tear-down posts (p. 33 and 34) and "groked" the freewheel function of that white second reduction gear.

Veteran machinist Made (say "Ma day") and I scratched our heads. A one-way bearing was new territory for him too, and he's obviously been in the machinist's game for a long time. I suggested tearing the old one apart. He smiled...and stayed past closing time to extract the freewheel/bearing assembly from the munched white #2 reduction gear just to see what it looked like by first removing some of the plastic on a lathe, then using a hydraulic press.
White Gear lathed.jpg

White gear + hex freewheel.jpg
Looking at the inside it looks like your garden variety roller bearing. The plastic must have been poured/molded around the hexagonal metal bit. It's obviously not intended to be removed, but it's kind of fun tearing stuff apart to see what makes it tick, (or what made it quit ticking). Like a mechanical autopsy.

Made was having fun after hours helping this crazy foreigner. On his lathe, and in short order he banged out a perfect shaft from of a piece of scrap hollow steel shaft to test the freewheel action. It's a mystery to me how that sucker freewheels, but it does.

So... the hex bit may be proprietary/made by Bafang. It's an amazingly cool piece of "gear" - literally.

So why pursue brass gears when GreenBikeKit.com has replacement white plastic #2 reduction gears for $15? Because I hate plastic. Especially in mechanical devices. Don't get me started re: the stock Ford V4 in the Saab with the "phenolic" balance shaft/water pump gear that blew out in the middle of nowhere on a cross-country trip. Long night replacing that &%^ with a steel one that never failed. That munched plastic bad idea hangs in the gallery of infamy along with a broken rod, a bent valve and another trashed plastic gear from an outboard.
And I guess that bull-in-a-china-shop style of riding has something to do with it.

But it looks like the hefty brass replicas will not get to be tested for lack of the hex bit, which I think may provide the freewheel function. The roller bearing itself might not be unique.

Any ideas on that anyone? Especially where on might source the freewheeling-only-one-way/shaft-grabbing-the-other bearing assembly pictured above (in the BB-xx it's hex shaped)? It doesn't necessarily have to be hexagonal so long as it doesn't budge from the brass gear. It'd probably be press fitted in. Inside bearing diameter is 14 mm. Outside assembly dia. is not really an issue.
 
I have used VXB for clutch bearings (they roll one way, and grab going the other way). They look like they have three rows of needles, the two edges are simple rollers to align the shaft perfectly with the center row. The center row of needles live inside a cylinder with a sawtooth pocket for each needle. http://www.vxb.com/SRCH.html?Store_Code=bearings&Search=clutch+bearing

They require a hardened shaft, because a soft steel shaft will get a rippled surface from the grip, and the clutch-bearing will jam.

BCDHFZM_works.gif
 
spinningmagnets said:
I have used VXB for clutch bearings (they roll one way, and grab going the other way). They look like they have three rows of needles, the two edges are simple rollers to align the shaft perfectly with the center row. The center row of needles live inside a cylinder with a sawtooth pocket for each needle. http://www.vxb.com/SRCH.html?Store_Code=bearings&Search=clutch+bearing

They require a hardened shaft, because a soft steel shaft will get a rippled surface from the grip, and the clutch-bearing will jam.

Well, I be dipped! There they are. Thanks Spin.
So the question at this point is, since the ones pictured on VXB.com are round on the outside, VXB - fcb14-one-way-1.jpg
d'ya think if pressed into a perfect hole in the brass gears they'd bind sufficiently to not break loose and spin, what with all that torque on them? There is a good reason the Bafang #2 clutch gear is hex on the outside - it's not going to slip.

I'm pretty sure the i.d. on the Bafang #2 gear reduction bearing is 14mm.
BTW, for that VXB suggests: FCB14 One Way Needle Bearing/Clutch 14x20x26 Price: $19.49 Code: Kit8240_1
(pictured above)
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit8240_1
Oh, and by the way, the VXB chat gal informs me that, at least in their parlance, a "Clutch bearing" is a needle bearing; a "Sprag bearing" is a roller bearings
 
maxwell92036 said:
I don't think you could mill down the BB that much on a fat bike. They are wide for a reason. There is only one fat bike out there that uses a 68 mm bottom bracket shell that I know of and it is a single speed. Of course you could use an IGH with it.

Fatbike bottom brackets are wide because the chain line needs to clear the tires. The Bafang crank is much wider than a standard crank, and if the bottom bracket is milled there should be enough clearance as long as the secondary drive housing can clear the right chainstay. The chainwheel can be flipped or changed out with an adapter plate as necessary to clear the tire. I had this planned out for my own fatbike. :)
 
I would recommend that you make sure its a snug fit, snug enough that the brass needs to be heated with very hot water to make insertion easier. Several people have used a smear of a strong adhesive (like DP-420?).

Regardless of the style, a clutch bearing rolls in one direction, and locks in the other. A "spag" is a specific type of rocking element inside a clutch bearing:

Sprag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Fsp3fm4KHs0#t=50
Trapped roller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QjR7dimpSJA#t=44
 
Remember the "one way bearing is actually being used as a clutch and is subject to the full torque of the motor. So a press fit is not likely to hold. There are some very strong Loctite products that may work though. You can also check the thickness of the outer shell. If thick enough you can have the machine shop grind a few slots (maybe 4) the length of the outer shell with matching groves in the inner bore of the new gear. Then Loctite in 4 steel or brass pins. This is a common process called "dog pinning". It's normally done on the surface of gear sets and set screws are inserted into the drilled/tapped holes. That way you just remove the set screws to remove the inner part.

Bob

Edit: It's called a "Dutch pin" not dog pinning.
 
I suspect the gears next to the motor are spinning fast enough that the torque that the primary driven gear experiences is very small. I would be comfortable using only a smear of a strong adhesive.

I used a 1-mm interference fit between an aluminum tube and one of these clutch-bearings on my friction drive. The drive saw peaks of 1,000W, and the traction on the tire broke before the friction-fit between the bearing and the aluminum cylinder that I used as a roller. Here's a pic of the installation, I put the tube in boiling water to expand it 2-mm on the ID:

file.php
 
Test fitting the CNC-cut bamboo battery box on my Bafang-bike. :) Not sure if it look better or worse with the box. I guess it will look better when I get rid of the carrier.
 

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