New Bafang Crank-Drives

[Kepler]

Don't waste your time with this system, there is nothing but disadvantages over hubmotors. Maybe another BB system can do better. Get a Grin Tech mid drive instead.

Got to say my experience is polar opposite to what you are saying. Either something has really changed since I bought mine 10 months ago or we ride just completely differently.

Had a few early issues early on but all problems were rectified with a dab of loctite. 3500km and still going strong and silent.

I have found the efficiency to be as good as any hub setup I have used and it is the only kit I have ever had that kept the bike feeling like a bike. My commute is around 30km each way. I use about 200 Whrs for this distance and am the fastest bike out there with even the best Lycra's struggling to stay with me. I am doing this distance is about 55 minutes on a full suspension 29'er. Sure I do some work but I sure arent busting a gut.

I have built 5 bikes with these drives and have a few other mates who did their own conversions. Only one had a motor failure with the motor being replace by Bafang under warranty. Since then, that conversion has been going strong.

So not that I don't believe you that you have had trouble with the drive, just trying to understand what is different or what has changed.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I agree that they keep a bike feeling like a bike. I'm just fed up with the horrible efficiency and junk ass parts. You know how to make a china motor worse? Make it more complicated!


The difference is probably that I am a BMX kid at heart. I don't ride the bike, I ride the terrain. I break shit that is made for 300lb people and I weigh 150lbs. Not sure how an amp limited motor gets the short end of this, but a 25% success rate of parts is absolutely not worth my time. Just in troubleshooting and rebuilding I've put in $1000 of labor in my bike. I have years and years of riding on little hubmotors without a failure, yet I can't seem to have any luck with these units.

 

[tahustvedt]

My 2014 BBS01 has an average efficiency of at least 78%. I measured it with a power meter. No pedaling. Powertap rear wheel and Watts up on the battery side over a 8,5 km course with small hills and flats.

 

[tomjasz]

I break shit that is made for 300lb people and I weigh 150lbs. .

So do you go to a cooking forum to complain when your blender dies after trying to grind dirt? Damn Chinese built blenders. Seriously? I've never seen Bafang or ANY vender claim this unit will stand up to BMX trial riding. Mile after happy mile here.

 

[rscamp]

This info is all good. The conditions just need to be stated in each case...

 

[johnrobholmes]

I break shit that is made for 300lb people and I weigh 150lbs. .

So do you go to a cooking forum to complain when your blender dies after trying to grind dirt? Damn Chinese built blenders. Seriously? I've never seen Bafang or ANY vender claim this unit will stand up to BMX trial riding. Mile after happy mile here.

If I was doing anything besides basic commuting with the system I would understand them breaking, but I'm keeping the tires on the ground and just going from A to B. My buddies system that broke sent shrapnel into his shoe! I've range tested with two completely new systems as well, no change in my efficiency.


I'm glad that most people are getting twice the range of me and having good luck. I just wish I could have some of it. I'm about ready to take a hammer to them and put on a shumaker drive.

 

[tahustvedt]

I break shit that is made for 300lb people and I weigh 150lbs. .

So do you go to a cooking forum to complain when your blender dies after trying to grind dirt? Damn Chinese built blenders. Seriously? I've never seen Bafang or ANY vender claim this unit will stand up to BMX trial riding. Mile after happy mile here.

If I was doing anything besides basic commuting with the system I would understand them breaking, but I'm keeping the tires on the ground and just going from A to B. My buddies system that broke sent shrapnel into his shoe! I've range tested with two completely new systems as well, no change in my efficiency.


I'm glad that most people are getting twice the range of me and having good luck. I just wish I could have some of it. I'm about ready to take a hammer to them and put on a shumaker drive.

Don't do that. I'm sure you can sell them "as is" here instead of breaking them.

 

[tomjasz]

I break shit that is made for 300lb people and I weigh 150lbs. .

So do you go to a cooking forum to complain when your blender dies after trying to grind dirt? Damn Chinese built blenders. Seriously? I've never seen Bafang or ANY vender claim this unit will stand up to BMX trial riding. Mile after happy mile here.

If I was doing anything besides basic commuting with the system I would understand them breaking, but I'm keeping the tires on the ground and just going from A to B. My buddies system that broke sent shrapnel into his shoe! I've range tested with two completely new systems as well, no change in my efficiency.


I'm glad that most people are getting twice the range of me and having good luck. I just wish I could have some of it. I'm about ready to take a hammer to them and put on a shumaker drive.

That makes it even more confusing. I'm far from and expert, but I am a daily rider. I've managed 600 miles of hard use. Being unable to pedal much I'm running my 2 36V 350W at WOT 95% of the time. I often start out in 7th gear (7spd) and put considerable stress on the motor and bike weighing 220lbs. I figured I'd be overheating the motor and got a IR temp gauge and never get warmer than the wife's where she rides at level 1 to my level 5 assist. We have 5 levels rather than 9.
It's certainly not scientific but it SEEMS the 36V have fewer reports of problems. Sorry to read you can't make it work..

BTW, a nice web site! I have a future project I'll email about your range of motors.

Tom

 

[johnrobholmes]

I'm running a 48v system on 36v. Maybe that has something to do with it? I ride in the gears for 18mph commuting, but it will go up to 30mph in higher gears.

 

[dumbass]

These drives are obviously not for you that's for sure. And that's cool but I wouldn't exactly say that is a 100% condemnation of the drive. As you pointed out you "ride the terrain and break shit that's made for 300# people and your 150#". So I'm taking a wild this is your way of saying your crazy hard on your bikes.

I admit I am still a little worried about the long term reliability of these drives but I'm still willing to give them a chance to find out. Of course compared to you I ride like a wimp. And personally, I'm don't feel they are overly complex as your saying ether. All mid-drive that I'm aware of use gear reduction and freewheels. The main difference between these drives and most other mid-drives is everything is very cleanly contained. Whereas, most mid-drives ether or both the freewheels and gear reductions are out in the open. I guess there's an argument to be made that being in the open makes them easier to maintain. But I'll still take the quite of the Bafang mid-drive any day.

BTW, If your really that unhappy with your Bafang that you want to smash it with a hammer I'd be happy to take it.....

Bob

 

[tomjasz]

BTW, If your really that unhappy with your Bafang that you want to smash it with a hammer I'd be happy to take it.....

Bob

Get in line! :wink:

 

[Kepler]

I'm running a 48v system on 36v. Maybe that has something to do with it? I ride in the gears for 18mph commuting, but it will go up to 30mph in higher gears.

So you are running 48V on a 36V Bafang or a 36V Bafang on 48V, the latter fitting in with your "volt up , gear down philosophy?

I presume it is the latter as the LVC wouldn't allow operation of a drive below 38V on the 48V BBS from memory. This fits in with 30mph top speeds.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I'm using a eb3 controller to run a 48v system on 36v. Still gets 30mph! Opposite of my usual motto, but I didn't need the speed of 48v and couldn't pedal that fast either.

 

[eMax]

Don't waste your time with this system, there is nothing but disadvantages over hubmotors. Maybe another BB system can do better. Get a Grin Tech mid drive instead.

Definitely something to think about.

In my case it was the original 6-fet controller that shipped with the 500w BBS02 that was the problem. My friend also had the same issue. It was replaced with a new 25a controller and has been fine ever since. Actually I would not consider another BBS02 If it didn't have this controller. Apart from that the cranks are rubbish soft metal which I keep stripping and the lockring and crank bolts are prone to loosening, but locktite or some red nailpolish will fix this.

The range is better than a hub-drive Mac 10T from what i've experienced but not better than a Cute 100H hub motor (much lower power).

 

[joshseitz]

I'd love to upgrade to two quality LEFT cranks. If one were to loctite the pedal threads, is there any real risk of the right pedal unthreading itself from rotating in the wrong direction?

Apart from that the cranks are rubbish soft metal which I keep stripping and the lockring and crank bolts are prone to loosening, but locktite or some red nailpolish will fix this.

This is the first I've read of using red nail polish to keep things together. Can you share some detail here?

 

[eMax]

I'd love to upgrade to two quality LEFT cranks. If one were to loctite the pedal threads, is there any real risk of the right pedal unthreading itself from rotating in the wrong direction?

Apart from that the cranks are rubbish soft metal which I keep stripping and the lockring and crank bolts are prone to loosening, but locktite or some red nailpolish will fix this.

This is the first I've read of using red nail polish to keep things together. Can you share some detail here?

It works in a similar way to locktite but the bond 'snaps' easier. Is a substitute for locktite but not necessary better. Does not have to be red, thats just what my girlfriend can spare. It will also come off easier after applying some heat with a hairdryer.

Two quality left cranks with locktite / nailpolish will work well.

 

[Kepler]

I'm using a eb3 controller to run a 48v system on 36v. Still gets 30mph! Opposite of my usual motto, but I didn't need the speed of 48v and couldn't pedal that fast either.

I see. That might account for your poor overall efficiency. The motor wind for the 36V BBS is set to give you a cadence of around 90rpm at 36V. If you are running 36V BBS motor at 48V, you are going to be spinning the motor way below its efficiency curve to maintain a comfortable cadence.

 

[Russell]

I see. That might account for your poor overall efficiency. The motor wind for the 36V BBS is set to give you a cadence of around 90rpm at 36V. If you are running 36V BBS motor at 48V, you are going to be spinning the motor way below its efficiency curve to maintain a comfortable cadence.

He actually stated he ran the 48V version on 36V however I was under the impression that the motors are the same for 36V and 48V just the controller is different. I also thought they kept the reduction the same so that the chainring spins slower (90 RPM) on the 36V version and faster (120 RPM) on the 48V version (both no-load).

-R

 

[Kepler]

You are confusing me.

I read it as a 48V controller running 48V battery coupled to 36V rated motor, correct?

The 36V motor is a physically smaller motor then the 48V motor and has a faster wind to accommodate the lower voltage.

Yes, the 48V motor does give a slightly higher cadence then the 36V motor but I think it is only about 20rpm more.

 

[Russell]

You are confusing me.

I read it as a 48V controller running 48V battery coupled to 36V rated motor, correct?

The 36V motor is a physically smaller motor then the 48V motor and has a faster wind to accommodate the lower voltage.

Yes, the 48V motor does give a slightly higher cadence then the 36V motor but I think it is only about 20rpm more.

I'm using a eb3 controller to run a 48v system on 36v. Still gets 30mph! Opposite of my usual motto, but I didn't need the speed of 48v and couldn't pedal that fast either.

I know there is a difference in size between the BBS01 and BBS02 motors but are you saying there's a difference between a 36V BBS02 and a 48V BBS02 motor?

-R

 

[teslanv]

I believe the 36V and 48V have different winds as Kepler is referring to. So if you run a 36V motor kit on a 48V controller/battery, you will end up with different performance (Higher crank RPM, but lower torque) as compared to a 48V kit/controller/battery.
Needless to say, Bafang never intended for us to run their kits on aftermarket controllers.

 

[Russell]

I believe the 36V and 48V have different winds as Kepler is referring to. So if you run a 36V motor kit on a 48V controller/battery, you will end up with different performance (Higher crank RPM, but lower torque) as compared to a 48V kit/controller/battery.
Needless to say, Bafang never intended for us to run their kits on aftermarket controllers.

The thing is I've seen 36V versions spec'd as low as 83 RPM and 48V versions as high as 127 RPM, both no-load, which suggests to me they are the same wind and same reduction.

-R

 

[johnrobholmes]

I have the larger motor 48v system, but am running it on a 36v battery and external Holmes Mini Stealth controller for better cadence and compatibility with CA.



The stock controller was junk IMO, or at least has bad programming. Like severely low phase amps and some strange rpm limiting functions. But thats just the bike snob talking, and not a real issue with the system.

 

[Kepler]

OK thanks for confirming that. So that blows all the efficiency theories out the window then

 

[teslanv]

According to electricbike.com:

The 750W unit appeared to be the same physical size as the 350W unit, and my experience with exaggerated China-made performance claims made me skeptical of the 750W spec. However, I have recently been informed by a North American distributor that the motor is wound to a different Kv, so when it is run at 48V, it will spin at the same output RPMs as the 36V / 350W version

http://www.electricbike.com/bafang-bbso2-750w-mid-drive/