New Bafang Crank-Drives

[bgt]

I have 3 Bafangs and never had a problem. Problems are here because a lot.....and I mean a lot of people use the Bafang system....so you're bound to see some problems here. I drive 40km every f.cking day so I really consume the Bafang systems. Pretty impressive stuff if you use the proper gear.

 

[tomjasz]

... if the motor and controller are getting very hot, you are doing something wrong.

Spot on!

I run throttle 90% of the time without a problem. The right gear is everything! I've hooked up a CA3 to get some data to post, soon.

 

[leelorr]

I had to completely change the way I ride, since I moved from a 48v 30A MAC 10T to the BBS02. Never needed to change from the 11T sprocket on the MAC lol.

And you should be rewarded by using WAY less watts for the same distance of travel by doing so. That is why the BBS system can go 40 miles on 10AH of battery when you shift the gears as needed (and contribute some by pedaling). All the extra amps that were being dumped into the MAC when in too high of a gear were being wasted, draining the battery and being converted to heat.

 

[opperpanter]

I guess installing a temperature sensor us the only way to objectively see how warm the unit gets. "barely warm" may feel like "already quite warm" to someone else. As expected! The 250/350watt users are reporting less warmth issues. I already limited mine from 25A to 20A. May limit it some more to be safe. Big issue is that the throttle is very sensitive. All or nothing.

In the future I want to go on a longer bike holiday (3 weeks, 1400km).

I guess I should bring a spare controller along to be safe? Spare motor would be a bit over the top?
Spare internal gears maybe?

 

[neptronix]

And you should be rewarded by using WAY less watts for the same distance of travel by doing so. That is why the BBS system can go 40 miles on 10AH of battery when you shift the gears as needed (and contribute some by pedaling). All the extra amps that were being dumped into the MAC when in too high of a gear were being wasted, draining the battery and being converted to heat.

30A / 48v 1440W peak on a MAC 10T is a reasonable use case, considering that the motor only does 25mph continuous on the flat. It's not wasting much power, really. On the flat, it is just as efficient, and gets up to speed a hell of a lot faster than the bafang. It's just hard to keep your pedal power going strong while it's accelerating, and also difficult to be in just the right gear.

The difference between that and a 350w bafang is that you're power limited, so you're pedaling a hell of a lot more to get up to speed and maintain it. You're also going a much lower speed on average. So you end up doing most of the work.
I owned a 750w 48v bafang. My 8T MAC just blew it away in power... the BBS02 only went further on a charge because it forced me to pedal a lot. But it never achieved the same top speed at all.

Since i live in a hilly area with high road speeds and no bike lanes in many areas, i just go with a bigass DD hub these days, until Bafang releases a 3000w mid drive.. :lol:

 

[speedmd]

Agree Nep. The bbs02n is best as cow trail kit and best for rolling trials at a mellow pace. On the road / hills it is way underpowered compared to a fast system. Still lots of fun, but not the one I would want to ride all the time any great distances at speed.

I don't believe the early controller issues were from bad programing or misuse. Mine failed in very light duty use. One of those frustrating infant mortality issues caused most times by bad / mismatched parts. The current systems/ controllers seem to run very reliable in all kinds of duty. Only a few have burned up motors, and considering the size, the quantity in use and what folks put these through, that is impressive on its own.

One thing that would make the system much better is a torque sensing bb more like on the bosch. With the throttle it makes it even better.

 

[tomjasz]

Agree Nep. The bbs02n is best as cow trail kit and best for rolling trials at a mellow pace. On the road / hills it is way underpowered compared to a fast system. Still lots of fun, but not the one I would want to ride all the time any great distances at speed.

I don't believe the early controller issues were from bad programing or misuse. Mine failed in very light duty use. One of those frustrating infant mortality issues caused most times by bad / mismatched parts. The current systems/ controllers seem to run very reliable in all kinds of duty. Only a few have burned up motors, and considering the size, the quantity in use and what folks put these through, that is impressive on its own.

One thing that would make the system much better is a torque sensing bb more like on the bosch. With the throttle it makes it even better.

I believe most of the problems come from power users with hub motor expectations. And yes, decent torque sending and CA type display would make it a great drive. But after all it's drill a cheap Chineses mid drive. Perhaps our expectations are over the top given the price and quality. Could be worse, we might have bought YOCH!

 

[tahustvedt]

Intelligent shifting is a given.

The controller should be able to protect itself though, so why doesn't it? I still believe some failures are related to too small input capacitors.

 

[alfantastic]

Intelligent shifting is a given.

The controller should be able to protect itself though, so why doesn't it? I still believe some failures are related to too small input capacitors.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the BBSxx's have a temperature sensor inside the unit, and reduces or cuts off the power if it gets too hot.

Maybe someone can clarify this :wink:

 

[ginekolog]

I have 1500km on my 750W BBS02. I have it on full power (50% rpm, ~ 30% grade uphill, full throtle + pedaling, ~10km/h averege) for 30 mins. This was 700m altitute climb on ski slope. It was hot on touch, ~70C on outside i guess. It didn't shut down or anything. So far so good
I only notice some small metal internal gear wear resulting in grinding noise when I pedal without motor. Otherwise silent.

 

[tomjasz]

I guess installing a temperature sensor us the only way to objectively see how warm the unit gets.

I have two ready but when there's no problem, a retrofit gets pushed back in favor of riding. Unless I have problem this season it's on the burner for fall.

 

[opperpanter]

Custom adapted by Bafang for a norwegian distributor to perform the same as Bosch, Yamaha and Impulse "250 W" motors. It's limited to 15 A PAS, but the limit is raised to 25 A when a thumb throttle is pressed (which only works while pedaling).

Where can we get it Would be perfect for Dutch market as well (The Netherlands).
Or only the stickers for my two 750W BBSes!

 

[tahustvedt]

Custom adapted by Bafang for a norwegian distributor to perform the same as Bosch, Yamaha and Impulse "250 W" motors. It's limited to 15 A PAS, but the limit is raised to 25 A when a thumb throttle is pressed (which only works while pedaling).

Where can we get it Would be perfect for Dutch market as well (The Netherlands).
Or only the stickers for my two 750W BBSes!

Here: http://ebikekit.no/ I think it's a small one man operation so I'm not sure if he's prepared to handle exports. He is sold out now, but more will come later.

 

[goodgnus]

I have 1500km on my 750W BBS02. I have it on full power (50% rpm, ~ 30% grade uphill, full throtle + pedaling, ~10km/h averege) for 30 mins. This was 700m altitute climb on ski slope. It was hot on touch, ~70C on outside i guess. It didn't shut down or anything. So far so good
I only notice some small metal internal gear wear resulting in grinding noise when I pedal without motor. Otherwise silent.

I'm riding my 750w in the desert and the casing gets up to about 140 degrees F. I've been told there is a thermal protection circuit (which I've yet to trip) and that the unit can operate in up to 140F ambient temperatures, though not sure at what duty cycle.

 

[dilkes]

Is it possible to mount a Bafang BBS02 on a bike which has a belt drive instead of a chain and still keep the belt to drive the rear wheel? If so, would there need to be some kind of additional adapter? And lastly, has anyone actually done it?

 

[dumbass]

Intelligent shifting is a given.

The controller should be able to protect itself though, so why doesn't it? I still believe some failures are related to too small input capacitors.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the BBSxx's have a temperature sensor inside the unit, and reduces or cuts off the power if it gets too hot.

Maybe someone can clarify this :wink:

I have 2 750w and 1 500w. I can't speak for all vintages or models but on the newest model I got a few months ago the manual lists all the errors. Error code "10H" is "high temp. of controller, error "11H" is "controller's temp sensor error", "13H" is Battery temp sensor error and "14H" is Motor temp sensor.

I am guessing the battery sesor doesn't really exist yet. But the others....who knows?

Bob

 

[Samd]

I've burnt out three 750w controllers. I've not ever heard of the other smaller sizes failing.

 

[LewTwo]

I only notice some small metal internal gear wear resulting in grinding noise when I pedal without motor. Otherwise silent.

Do you feel it adds much drag when pedaling without the motor ?

 

[ginekolog]

I only notice some small metal internal gear wear resulting in grinding noise when I pedal without motor. Otherwise silent.

Do you feel it adds much drag when pedaling without the motor ?

Same small drag like it was on brand new. Got free replacment gear from dealer but want to change it myself.

 

[goodgnus]

I've burnt out three 750w controllers. I've not ever heard of the other smaller sizes failing.

Bafang dealers with the bafang software can program the controller to lower the maximum amp draw a bit. This doesn't affect performance notably, but does increase the life of the controller, from what I've been told.

 

[checkpoint22]

Hi Folks, have I missed it in this large thread, or are we still waiting to hear how to identify a V4 Bafang drive? I'm just about to pull the trigger, and would really like to be able to tell if I am laying down cash monies for old stock or not.

Anyone know how to definitively ID a V4 Unit?
Many thanks...

 

[opperpanter]

Hi Folks, have I missed it in this large thread, or are we still waiting to hear how to identify a V4 Bafang drive? I'm just about to pull the trigger, and would really like to be able to tell if I am laying down cash monies for old stock or not.

Anyone know how to definitively ID a V4 Unit?
Many thanks...

Maybe you could ask the reseller. I think em3ev will be aware of what he's selling. I'm curious too.

 

[deepfraught]

I owned a 750w 48v bafang. My 8T MAC just blew it away in power... the BBS02 only went further on a charge because it forced me to pedal a lot. But it never achieved the same top speed at all.
Since i live in a hilly area with high road speeds and no bike lanes in many areas, i just go with a bigass DD hub these days, until Bafang releases a 3000w mid drive.. :lol:

Agreed I had a similar experience, but my needs are paths not roads, so less speed more pedalling is preferred.

My 8T front MAC/rear Alfine8 steel road frame with Thudbuster LT and 25Ah Em3ev frame battery was the fastest longest range best handling nicest to pedal commuter I'd ridden yet.
Then circumstances changed, commute was on terrible paths, wrists took a beating (no pun intended). I could have fitted small travel suspension forks, but wanted to try mid drive BBS02 is a nice integrated package with no external controller, so got a dual suspension XC with same 25Ah frame battery.

Both have pro's/con's I enjoyed but my next step is now trying a Bosch Performance Line factory bike with all the integrated lights and wiring niceness, easy removable display and battery, giving up the grunt/acceleration/throttle for least assist most pedalling.
All that said, I'm curious about the rear fat axle 12T MAC for spinning sand in a spare fat bike I have that EM3EV stocks, seeking that MC twist grip throttle riding style for recreation, but a DD hub with adapto seems to be the winning formula now.

On topic I'd like to now try the BBS02 in fun mode now with a nice twist grip (saw EM3EV had a Wuxing twist throttle listed) and smallest (steel) chainring and a big modified cassette (up to 42 like on the fat bike) with knobbies on the dual suspension bike and 8Ah LiPo instead of the frame battery.

PS: I've not done more than 400km on my gen2 updated controller 750W BBS02, and been able to hold hand to the motor at end of ride/hills. I got a sub-33 to +180degC Turnigy IR temp gun for fun, but ended up just staying off the throttle, and max in assist 8 instead of 9, so I know there's headroom for accelerating in 9, and more with throttle, but am trying to slow down in life, don't need to push the envelope, and crashing at speed is in the back of my head

PPS: here's a video test of the Bosch Performance Line doing some of the local climbs and beach that I've practiced on with my new-to-me Mukluk fat-MTB on, you can see the same terrain on the Mukluk with 22/42 gearing and Nate 3.8 knobbies that makes for great slow traction climbing. I don't have a BBS02 comparison, I've got solid 700x32c Tannus tyres on the wheels currently on it, they don't grip anything and lean awkwardly with square profile so wouldn't do the BBS02 justice yet.

 

[tomjasz]

EM3ev and California eBikes have the latest versions of 750W. No question. There are some rumors of trials of upgraded FET's being tested, but both have the latest releases of controllers. The "V4" is from Keefer and I can find no one that can confirm there are actually 4 versions. There are definitely two versions of cases, one 5 bolt/screw the other 7. From what I have found there have been 3 releases of controllers, perhaps more, and more being tested. However the fact remains, these are cheap systems costing far less than Bosch and the quality control can be questionable. That leads me to stay with EM3ev and California eBikes. I remain a fan of BBS0x despite the failings. Odds are better than not that you will get a good drive from these two sellers. There have been problems but they are tended to and at least we are guaranteed to have the latest and greatest due to EM3ev's relationship with Bafang and closeness to the factory.

 

[1KW]

anybody put thousands of miles on one yet with no issue?

does the wider pedal stance mess with anyones knees?