New Bafang Crank-Drives

[nukezero]

Not sure if you have ruled out LiPo yet. I know ES generally steers noobs away from LiPo, because of safety concerns, but if you educate yourself on proper care and maintenance of LiPo, it is a wonderful solution for higher current systems.

I chose LiPo for my first build. I have been happy with my decision thus far. The Up-front cost is small, and the packs provide light and powerful energy in a small package. And they are way more than enough to handle the 25A BBS02 needs.

It is a decision one must make for themselves and the people that live around them, however, since a mis-step can be catastrophic. - Just thought I would share the option with you.

The reality is that almost half of those surveyed recently use LiPo. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=57943

I ran LiPo's before for my RC helicopter and also my last Motiv bike was 48v 10Ah lipo pack. It seemed fine but I felt that the 10Ah pack had some voltage sag although not as bad. The 18650's are heavier nontheless.
I am a big fan of "Clean" look. I would buy another "out of the box" factory e-bike but unfortunately, all the ebikes out there are not built with the best components for the money you pay and their bikes are really heavy.

Anyhow, I'm going to go buy a new bike this week or so, and decided to use those triangle-mounted battery shells. Those will only take 18650's (or small sets of LiPos) but.. 18650's would make more efficient use of space. Does anyone in the USA want to help me tab weld them if I ship you the case? for a cost of course.

I shipped a 36V15Ah LifePo4 pack via UPS before so it is possible for residents in the US to ship batteries as long as it goes ground.

 

[shanman3us]

@ nukezero

Anyhow, I'm going to go buy a new bike this week or so, and decided to use those triangle-mounted battery shells.

Do you have a link to these triangle pacs? I would run Lipo's but I like a finished looking product. I have not found any generic solution that didn't involve buying a pre-built, populated 18650 pac. I need to be able to leave the batteries on my bike and a hard box with key lock is necessary so that it can't be stolen easily. This is the only thing that has been keeping me from considering buying my own Lipo's for my up and coming first eBike build.

Thanks...

 

[Rusty123]

Just to verify, is anyone using or know that the Samsung 18650-29E are good enough for the 750w/48V ?? It's got great capacity but worried about 2C, since at 11.6Ah pack means it can only do 23.2Ah max. This is under the 25A BBS-02 rating.

Check out this thread:

Frame mount battery packs: Lectric Cycles vs. Cell Man http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56933

 

[tomjasz]

I wasn't thrilled by the vendor response, but, time will tell. It would be nice to have a USA source. With stock and a selection. Something not demonstrated yet.

 

[samsavvas]

@ nukezero

Anyhow, I'm going to go buy a new bike this week or so, and decided to use those triangle-mounted battery shells.

Do you have a link to these triangle pacs? I would run Lipo's but I like a finished looking product. I have not found any generic solution that didn't involve buying a pre-built, populated 18650 pac. I need to be able to leave the batteries on my bike and a hard box with key lock is necessary so that it can't be stolen easily. This is the only thing that has been keeping me from considering buying my own Lipo's for my up and coming first eBike build.

Thanks...

EVLab in NZ makes excellent, lockable and secure, frame-mounted metal battery boxes. Not triangular but made to fit a variety of known battery shapes.

Savvas.

 

[Warren]

nukezero,

"But what if assuming no head-wind, purely flat and paved road, lightweight bike(~26lb) + 155lb rider (me) going and 30mph... on a 48/11T cog, you're saying the BBS02 will cut out after maybe 5 minutes?"

No. I am saying if you do this routinely, in real world conditions, without putting in a good effort as well, you will greatly reduce the life of your drive and most batteries. On a smooth, banked, oval track, with windless conditions (no Rollodo, windless doesn't mean in a vacuum) world class athletes can do 30 mph for an hour. But they are putting about 450 watts to the wheel! You'd need to see 650 battery watts to do the same thing, in a tuck, without pedaling. On real roads with hills and wind, you'd need to average more like 1000 battery watts. If you are in pretty good shape, you could add 100-150 watts for long periods. But you won't arrive at work fresh doing that. Most guys will put in 50-75 watts while commuting.

Averaging 20-25 mph commuting will be much easier, and more relaxing.

 

[nukezero]

nukezero,

"But what if assuming no head-wind, purely flat and paved road, lightweight bike(~26lb) + 155lb rider (me) going and 30mph... on a 48/11T cog, you're saying the BBS02 will cut out after maybe 5 minutes?"

No. I am saying if you do this routinely, in real world conditions, without putting in a good effort as well, you will greatly reduce the life of your drive and most batteries. On a smooth, banked, oval track, with windless conditions (no Rollodo, windless doesn't mean in a vacuum) world class athletes can do 30 mph for an hour. But they are putting about 450 watts to the wheel! You'd need to see 650 battery watts to do the same thing, in a tuck, without pedaling. On real roads with hills and wind, you'd need to average more like 1000 battery watts. If you are in pretty good shape, you could add 100-150 watts for long periods. But you won't arrive at work fresh doing that. Most guys will put in 50-75 watts while commuting.

Averaging 20-25 mph commuting will be much easier, and more relaxing.

thanks for the explanation. i rode a Motiv e-bike doing 25mph to work arriving "fresh". It had a bafang bpm in it. But i wanted more speed and the ability to pedal with it. It came with a 14T freewheel. The whole bike was stuck in the 90s technology. So now i"m back in the market to build something new again but this time trying to achieve 30mph when road conditions are safe.

It looks I will be venturing over to the lightningrods mid-drive kit now. Supposedly, I'm learning that kit can do 30mph without breaking a sweat and 40mph peaks on 48v with a 14T. That's ludacrous!

 

[nukezero]

Just to verify, is anyone using or know that the Samsung 18650-29E are good enough for the 750w/48V ?? It's got great capacity but worried about 2C, since at 11.6Ah pack means it can only do 23.2Ah max. This is under the 25A BBS-02 rating.

Check out this thread:

Frame mount battery packs: Lectric Cycles vs. Cell Man http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56933

thanks, looking into it now.

 

[Rollodo]

...no Rollodo, windless doesn't mean in a vacuum...

I later emphasized that the term 'wind' is generally meant to serve as 'resistance', at least when it comes to performance. Air creates resistance, and once a rider reaches ~20 kph, the weight of the rider creates the drag.

 

[nukezero]

@ nukezero

Anyhow, I'm going to go buy a new bike this week or so, and decided to use those triangle-mounted battery shells.

Do you have a link to these triangle pacs? I would run Lipo's but I like a finished looking product. I have not found any generic solution that didn't involve buying a pre-built, populated 18650 pac. I need to be able to leave the batteries on my bike and a hard box with key lock is necessary so that it can't be stolen easily. This is the only thing that has been keeping me from considering buying my own Lipo's for my up and coming first eBike build.

Thanks...

I just bought this case. It is the same exact case as em3ev and lectric cycle. Except they just sell you the bare case, slider mount, set of keys, and stuff. No batteries. You put whether you want into it.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/white-color-packing-18650-cells-new-bottle-battery-case-electric-bike-battery-case-ebike-battery-case/1682864183.html

Personally, this is the "2014" of battery mounting in my opinion. Last couple years were the metal rear racks and tall (seat-tube) battery type mount. This year, it's all about triangle mounting. who knows, maybe in couple more years, they'll figure out how to mount the batteries inside your downtube?? :lol: :lol:

I am not a big fan of ugly bags full of explosive batteries and what not. I like a clean lookin' e-bike, even custom built.

 

[Rollodo]

Personally, this is the "2014" of battery mounting in my opinion. Last couple years were the metal rear racks and tall (seat-tube) battery type mount. This year, it's all about triangle mounting. who knows, maybe in couple more years, they'll figure out how to mount the batteries inside your downtube??

Catalyst right here, batteries inside the bike's tubes - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=54709

 

[shanman3us]

EVLab in NZ makes excellent, lockable and secure, frame-mounted metal battery boxes. Not triangular but made to fit a variety of known battery shapes.

Savvas.

Thanks. I went to the site but only saw a 'bag' sold separately. Maybe my search skills are too limited...

Shanman3us

 

[shanman3us]

I just bought this case. It is the same exact case as em3ev and lectric cycle. Except they just sell you the bare case, slider mount, set of keys, and stuff. No batteries. You put whether you want into it.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/white-color-packing-18650-cells-new-bottle-battery-case-electric-bike-battery-case-ebike-battery-case/1682864183.html

Personally, this is the "2014" of battery mounting in my opinion. Last couple years were the metal rear racks and tall (seat-tube) battery type mount. This year, it's all about triangle mounting. who knows, maybe in couple more years, they'll figure out how to mount the batteries inside your downtube?? :lol: :lol:

I am not a big fan of ugly bags full of explosive batteries and what not. I like a clean lookin' e-bike, even custom built.

Now that's a great looking battery box. Exactly what I was looking for. Thank-you.

Shanman3us

 

[t3sla]

I just bought this case. It is the same exact case as em3ev and lectric cycle. Except they just sell you the bare case, slider mount, set of keys, and stuff. No batteries. You put whether you want into it.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/white-color-packing-18650-cells-new-bottle-battery-case-electric-bike-battery-case-ebike-battery-case/1682864183.html

Personally, this is the "2014" of battery mounting in my opinion. Last couple years were the metal rear racks and tall (seat-tube) battery type mount. This year, it's all about triangle mounting. who knows, maybe in couple more years, they'll figure out how to mount the batteries inside your downtube?? :lol: :lol:

I am not a big fan of ugly bags full of explosive batteries and what not. I like a clean lookin' e-bike, even custom built.

Now that's a great looking battery box. Exactly what I was looking for. Thank-you.

Shanman3us

That's 50pcs of 18650, so your good for 48V 3P
Using NCR18650PD you're good for ~9Ah and 30A discharge
Perfect for a 750W BF mid drive.

 

[Samd]

Tesla where you been?

Folks I'm in dire need of some urgent help. I just fitted one for a relative with a nine speed rear. It's dropping the chain from the front drive gear when I shift up to the three top climbing gears. Any solutions?

 

[Tom L]

Not cheap but it works for me: http://www.paulcomp.com/chainkeeper.html

 

[d8veh]

I just use a normal derailleur. One from even the cheapest bike would do. You can eithet tie the cable off or use the left-hand changer that comes with it to get it in the ideal position.

 

[Warren]

Rollodo,

"I later emphasized that the term 'wind' is generally meant to serve as 'resistance', at least when it comes to performance."

For the general public ,"wind" refers to farting. For engineers, it refers to wind. Engineers talk about Cd, when referring to air resistance.

 

[Rollodo]

For the general public ,"wind" refers to farting. For engineers, it refers to wind. Engineers talk about Cd, when referring to air resistance.

 

[Samd]

I just use a normal derailleur. One from even the cheapest bike would do. You can eithet tie the cable off or use the left-hand changer that comes with it to get it in the ideal position.

That worked a treat. I'm embarrassed to admit I just used the one I took off the bike to fit the bbs01. I was able to screw the adjuster to just the right spot and remove the cable.

For rollodo's benefit I am a degree qualified engineer with plenty of knowledge on drag effects. But stuff all experience with derailleurs. Works both ways.

 

[nukezero]

so if the Bafang 48v/750w controller issues are sorted and back in protection, then I assume em3ev will be getting a new batch much sooner than expected?

 

[amigafan2003]

so if the Bafang 48v/750w controller issues are sorted and back in protection, then I assume em3ev will be getting a new batch much sooner than expected?

Depends how long the manufacturing and distribution chains are really.

 

[samsavvas]

so if the Bafang 48v/750w controller issues are sorted and back in protection, then I assume em3ev will be getting a new batch much sooner than expected?

Depends how long the manufacturing and distribution chains are really.

Ummm - as was pointed out just a few posts back, em3ev is close to the Bafang plant and Paul buys direct. So I think you'll see units back in stock pronto. It's worth noting that Paul at em3ev has - IMHO - been just about the best source of info thus far on production updates and explanation etc. It's worth monitoring his 'news' page in you are interested in 'BBSxx news'...

Savvas

 

[samsavvas]

...no Rollodo, windless doesn't mean in a vacuum...

I later emphasized that the term 'wind' is generally meant to serve as 'resistance', at least when it comes to performance. Air creates resistance, and once a rider reaches ~20 kph, the weight of the rider creates the drag.

Surely you mean to refer to the 'surface area presented by the rider' rather than 'weight of the rider' here? The weight of the rider would only have any bearing on 'resistance' when climbing an incline.

Above about 20km/h it's air resistance in its various forms that is the problem. There's a good explanation here: http://mccraw.co.uk/wind-resistance-cycling-speed/

I've often though that the only real justification for a drive such as the BBS01 is to assist bicycle users to overcome air resistance (particularly when cycling into the wind) sufficiently to avoid turning to the car! In other words, to be able to cycle at around 25km/h consistently and in all conditions.

Savvas

 

[samsavvas]

EVLab in NZ makes excellent, lockable and secure, frame-mounted metal battery boxes. Not triangular but made to fit a variety of known battery shapes.

Savvas.

Thanks. I went to the site but only saw a 'bag' sold separately. Maybe my search skills are too limited...

Shanman3us

Here it is: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50128

I suspect that because the cases are a 'batch production' item Kiwi may only list them at the site when he has a bunch to sell.

Savvas.