New Bafang Crank-Drives

[Tom L]

I did misplace one of the little o rings for the brake connector - anybody know where I might be able to find a replacement?

Do you have a picture of the part? I just looked at my two spare brake levers and there are no O-rings.

 

[Tom L]

We need someone like dogman to really try and break this drive. See what it takes.

I plan to ride up this http://i.imgur.com/WZ4Ztlj.jpg next weekend. Here's the elevation / grade profile http://i.imgur.com/m2gD80r.png.

An average of 10% grade for 8.8km should be a good test.

 

[teslanv]

After Setting the PAS to 9 levels

Did this make any difference to the spacing between levels? I was under the impression that the levels are individually programmed and selecting less levels simply cuts off access to the higher ones. e.g. say it was programmed like this:

PAS0 - 0%
PAS1 - 10%
PAS2 - 20%
PAS3 - 30 %
...
PAS7 - 70%
PAS8 - 80%
PAS9 - 100%

If you set the number of levels to 5, then you would only have access 50% assistance max and the increments below this are still 10%.

The top level, whether its 5 or 9 is 100%
The settings below are in theory equal increments of the total number of PAS levels.
So level 3 of 9 provides roughly 33% power while level 2 of 5 would produce 40% power.

 

[speedmd]

I find down changes not to be a problem even under load however I do need to be carefully on up changes and use the dead spot in the thumb throttle to get though these changes. That being said, I have stuffed up the changes plenty of times and crunched through the up change under power. Sound terrible but so far, all has survived.

I can't get enough of this drive.

Hi Kepler

A LBS owner is convinced that the new electric shifting will be perfect for this kit. He has some experience with them on his new personal use bikes and I am starting to think he may be correct. They do shift perfectly clean and crisp under full human power load. We will be testing the match on a suitable off road build later this spring hopefully. May make a interesting match.

 

[Rusty123]

I did misplace one of the little o rings for the brake connector - anybody know where I might be able to find a replacement?

Do you have a picture of the part? I just looked at my two spare brake levers and there are no O-rings.

Here is a photo of the connector with the O-ring in place.

 

[Rusty123]

I find down changes not to be a problem even under load however I do need to be carefully on up changes and use the dead spot in the thumb throttle to get though these changes. That being said, I have stuffed up the changes plenty of times and crunched through the up change under power. Sound terrible but so far, all has survived.

I can't get enough of this drive.

Hi Kepler

A LBS owner is convinced that the new electric shifting will be perfect for this kit. He has some experience with them on his new personal use bikes and I am starting to think he may be correct. They do shift perfectly clean and crisp under full human power load. We will be testing the match on a suitable off road build later this spring hopefully. May make a interesting match.

The NuVinci has an electric shift version, which according to their website is intended for eBikes.

 

[Rusty123]

Regarding shifting - I haven't had the motor long enough to comment, but based on lots of commuting miles, a product called "Chain-L" will make your chain shift smoothly and last a long time. It's messy and attracts dirt, but does a very good job at it's intended purpose.

 

[Tom L]

Here is a photo of the connector with the O-ring in place.

Interesting. My ebrakes had different connectors. No o-ring.

You should be able to pick up a similarly sized one from McMaster Carr, or most hardware stores.

 

[Tom L]

The top level, whether its 5 or 9 is 100%
The settings below are in theory equal increments of the total number of PAS levels.

Ok thanks for the clarification. I'm going to try increasing the number of levels tomorrow and see if I like the finer control (I've been using a max of 5 levels).

 

[teslanv]

I find down changes not to be a problem even under load however I do need to be carefully on up changes and use the dead spot in the thumb throttle to get though these changes. That being said, I have stuffed up the changes plenty of times and crunched through the up change under power. Sound terrible but so far, all has survived.

I can't get enough of this drive.

Hi Kepler

A LBS owner is convinced that the new electric shifting will be perfect for this kit. He has some experience with them on his new personal use bikes and I am starting to think he may be correct. They do shift perfectly clean and crisp under full human power load. We will be testing the match on a suitable off road build later this spring hopefully. May make a interesting match.

The NuVinci has an electric shift version, which according to their website is intended for eBikes.

I just looked this up. It's called the Nuvinci Harmony System. Looks pretty sweet. - However it is currently only available to ebike manufacturers, not for aftermarket sale. Seems a little short-sighted, if you ask me.
Any "manufacturers" interested in selling it to us private parties?

 

[Rusty123]

I just looked this up. It's called the Nuvinci Harmony System. Looks pretty sweet. - However it is currently only available to ebike manufacturers, not for aftermarket sale. Seems a little short-sighted, if you ask me.
Any "manufacturers" interested in selling it to us private parties?

I've seen them on eBay.

 

[Rusty123]

Ok thanks for the clarification. I'm going to try increasing the number of levels tomorrow and see if I like the finer control (I've been using a max of 5 levels).

I must have missed something in the thread -- how are you able to change the number of levels? I thought that sort of thing could be revised only be reprogramming the controller, and that the programming software was not widely available. ??

 

[teslanv]

Ok thanks for the clarification. I'm going to try increasing the number of levels tomorrow and see if I like the finer control (I've been using a max of 5 levels).

I must have missed something in the thread -- how are you able to change the number of levels? I thought that sort of thing could be revised only be reprogramming the controller, and that the programming software was not widely available. ??

To Change the number of PAS Levels, you need to go to "Advanced Settings" on page 12-14 of the PDF manual. There you can set the Wheel Diameter, sleep time interval and number of PAS levels.

 

[teslanv]

I just looked this up. It's called the Nuvinci Harmony System. Looks pretty sweet. - However it is currently only available to ebike manufacturers, not for aftermarket sale. Seems a little short-sighted, if you ask me.
Any "manufacturers" interested in selling it to us private parties?

I've seen them on eBay.

You are right.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nuvinci-Dev...-/271300186162?pt=US_Hubs&hash=item3f2ac05032

Tempting.

 

[teslanv]

I just looked this up. It's called the Nuvinci Harmony System. Looks pretty sweet. - However it is currently only available to ebike manufacturers, not for aftermarket sale. Seems a little short-sighted, if you ask me.
Any "manufacturers" interested in selling it to us private parties?

I've seen them on eBay.

You are right.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nuvinci-Dev...-/271300186162?pt=US_Hubs&hash=item3f2ac05032

Tempting.

OK. I just took the bait, and bought one. My Wife is going to kill me.

Now I gotta find a wheel to lace it up into, and take it to my LBS. Crap.

 

[Rusty123]

OK. I just took the bait, and bought one. My Wife is going to kill me.

Now I gotta find a wheel to lace it up into, and take it to my LBS. Crap.

I'll be interested to see how you like the Nuvinci (Harmony or not). I've given some thought to putting one on my bike, which is very similar to yours (but with the 350W version, vice 750W). Do you have horizontal dropouts, or will you use a chain tensioner?

 

[Rusty123]

Ok thanks for the clarification. I'm going to try increasing the number of levels tomorrow and see if I like the finer control (I've been using a max of 5 levels).

I must have missed something in the thread -- how are you able to change the number of levels? I thought that sort of thing could be revised only be reprogramming the controller, and that the programming software was not widely available. ??

To Change the number of PAS Levels, you need to go to "Advanced Settings" on page 12-14 of the PDF manual. There you can set the Wheel Diameter, sleep time interval and number of PAS levels.

Would you mind sending me the link for the manual you're referring to ? The only manual I've been able to find on line is for the "old style" dash, with backlight and mode buttons on the dash. The one I have has the buttons on a remote pad, with power/+/- only

 

[Rusty123]

FYI - Lectric Cycles has recently added new content to their website: a more detailed FAQ, lots of build photos, and updates on product availability (wait times seem to be getting longer).

 

[Rassy]

@ teslanv, I think the kit on EBay is the old N171B NuVinci Developer Kit that NuVinci sold directly for $150 for the last couple of years. They are good kits and that is what I use on my tadpole trikes but I wouldn't want to put one on a two wheel bike. They are bulky, have lots of wires and parts, and are heavy.

I am currently setting up a bike for one of my sisters using the BaFang 48V 500W mid drive with no throttle. I already tested it with a 7 speed derailleur and the chain ring on the crank is too far outboard, thus preventing use of low gear. Although there are other solutions, I had an 8 speed Nexus IGH on the shelf that my LBS is lacing into a 26" wheel right now. So later this week I should have it installed and tested and will report on it then.

I think the IGH will be a good match to the Bafang unit, being able to shift back to low when stopped is a big plus over a derailleur system. I ran it for a couple of years on my trike with a max of 1100 Watts with no problems, except it doesn't shift very nicely under power, which is why I went to the N171B auto shift system. Both this bike and my trikes are used on hills with grades up to 20%.

 

[teslanv]

@ teslanv, I think the kit on EBay is the old N171B NuVinci Developer Kit that NuVinci sold directly for $150 for the last couple of years. They are good kits and that is what I use on my tadpole trikes but I wouldn't want to put one on a two wheel bike. They are bulky, have lots of wires and parts, and are heavy.

I am currently setting up a bike for one of my sisters using the BaFang 48V 500W mid drive with no throttle. I already tested it with a 7 speed derailleur and the chain ring on the crank is too far outboard, thus preventing use of low gear. Although there are other solutions, I had an 8 speed Nexus IGH on the shelf that my LBS is lacing into a 26" wheel right now. So later this week I should have it installed and tested and will report on it then.

I think the IGH will be a good match to the Bafang unit, being able to shift back to low when stopped is a big plus over a derailleur system. I ran it for a couple of years on my trike with a max of 1100 Watts with no problems, except it doesn't shift very nicely under power, which is why I went to the N171B auto shift system. Both this bike and my trikes are used on hills with grades up to 20%.

Thanks for the insight Rassy.

I'm going to get the hub in my hands and check it out anyways.

Right now, my bike is pretty well-balanced, so I am wondering if it would really be any worse than a high-end Rear Hub motor as far as weight and wires go. - I think I'd probably ditch the throttle control if I end up using the Nuvinci Hub, and just go with PAS.

If it works out, what a terrific set-up the bafang Mid Drive and this hub would be!!!

 

[Rassy]

OK teslanv, I do love riding my mid-drive trike with the NuVinci auto shift system. Both my cadence and the motor RPM are always in the sweet spot and all I do is pedal and use the throttle. With a PAS type system, you would just pedal with an occasional assist level change and mostly just enjoy the ride and scenery!

One issue with the NuVinci, at least the old N171B's, is efficiency. Two friends I ride with both use one wheel hub motor pusher trailers behind their trikes. We all use 48V Ping batteries and they normally use less than half the Watt Hours I use during a ride. We did a one mile side by side test on flat road, 10 MPH, no pedal usage. I used over twice the Watt Hours. Of course there are other variables, such as gross weight, tire pressure, etc. but I just carry more battery when going on a longer ride.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Rusty123]

OK teslanv, I do love riding my mid-drive trike with the NuVinci auto shift system. Both my cadence and the motor RPM are always in the sweet spot and all I do is pedal and use the throttle. With a PAS type system, you would just pedal with an occasional assist level change and mostly just enjoy the ride and scenery!

One issue with the NuVinci, at least the old N171B's, is efficiency. Two friends I ride with both use one wheel hub motor pusher trailers behind their trikes. We all use 48V Ping batteries and they normally use less than half the Watt Hours I use during a ride. We did a one mile side by side test on flat road, 10 MPH, no pedal usage. I used over twice the Watt Hours. Of course there are other variables, such as gross weight, tire pressure, etc. but I just carry more battery when going on a longer ride.

Good luck with your project.

Wikipedia has a comparison of both models: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission

I think I read somewhere that the N171B is stronger than the N360 (which might explain the higher weight), which may make it a better fit for teslanv's 750W motor.

From my perspective, one of the biggest advantages of the Nuvinci in this application is the wider gear range (360%, in the case of the N360, as compared to 309% for my 11/34 cassette). The fixed chainline is nice too.

 

[teslanv]

I used over twice the Watt Hours.

Hmm... That might be a deal-breaker right there.

Looking at the Nuvinci CVT designs on Wikipedia, I think I understand how it can lose so much efficiency. it's basically just spheres rotating in between clamped disks - I can see potential for a good amount of slippage there, particularly with a higher-powered electric motor. It might be a completely different story when just running on <200W human power.

 

[Rusty123]

I used over twice the Watt Hours.

Hmm... That might be a deal-breaker right there.

Looking at the Nuvinci CVT designs on Wikipedia, I think I understand how it can lose so much efficiency. it's basically just spheres rotating in between clamped disks - I can see potential for a good amount of slippage there, particularly with a higher-powered electric motor. It might be a completely different story when just running on <200W human power.

Rohloff?

 

[Rusty123]

Had a chance to go on a good shakedown ride today. Everything worked great, although it took me a while to remember to pause a bit longer than normal before shifting.

One question - I rode about 5 miles, with several hills, and the battery indicator still showed 4 bars. How linear is this gauge? Is it like my truck, which lingers around the upper end for a while, and then drops like a rock?

I suppose I could add a cheap wattmeter to know for sure.

Full commute tomorrow.