New Bafang Crank-Drives

[Kepler]

I am not too keen on DH type chain guides and rollers as firstly they are not designed for large chainrings and typically need a frame that accepts the mount. Also rollers or drag guides at the start and end of the chain tend to add drag to the pedal system which is something i definitely want to avoid.

I am thing a cyclocross chain catcher type of setup is all we need. Those boys need to keep the chain on in some pretty gnarly conditions.



http://www.acecosportgroup.com/shop/k-edge-chain-catchers/cyclocross/cross-single-chain-catcher.html

Agreed that the location of my guide might not ideal but I think it should be an improvement. Will take it out this afternoon and see if I can get the chain to come off.

 

[Warren]

kepler,

That cyclocross guide would keep it on the top run. It could still come off the bottom of the chainring, but one pedal rev will feed it back on. I would not depend on the stock chainring guard to keep the chain from going over the outside. It is nowhere near stiff enough. I'd toss it and use one of these.

http://www.paulcomp.com/chainkeeper.html

Or a standard front derailleur is a cheap substitute.

 

[full-throttle]

I don't have high hopes for your chain guide.

+1

lol Kepler :lol: thought you were a mech eng kind of guy

As Warren said, use a front derailleur locked in one position. Or better still invest in a clutched rear derailleur. The Shimano ones are dirt cheap. The only thing is they are 10sp. There's a way of making them work with 9sp.

 

[rp3]

As Warren said, use a front derailleur locked in one position.

You won't get a front derailleur on this frame with the mid drive there, it uses an E-Type.

 

[Kepler]

Kepler,

"Came up with a simple chain guide that attaches directly to the drive. Should do the trick I think."

I don't have high hopes for your chain guide.

Was hoping to report back how well the chain guide worked 30 minutes of testing later over the worst of my local test circuit equaled fail. :lol:

Back to the drawing board.

The front chain guide is being a little difficult to solve with an elegant solution at the moment so I like the idea of a clutched rear derailleur but it will be a bit of cost to replace derailleur, rear cluster, and chain. Bonus is that I do have a 10 speed shifter that l can use. (rp3, don't say a thing )

 

[coachstevo]

go clutched rd

The rear derailleurs don't care what number of speeds you are running, especially if you are going down in the number of cogs. We have bikes in our house that run " 8speed" derailleurs on 10 speed cassettes...they're a dumb part.
They do care if you get beyond the chain wrap recommendation by a bunch as the parallelogram gets out of whack, shifting gets wonky then.

 

[Warren]

I didn't look closely at your bike pix. Yeah, a front derailleur isn't going to fit on there. Even one of the cyclocross chain guides isn't going to work.

As to the rear derailleur being a dumb part. Only partly true with index shifting. These days everybody pulls different amounts of cable, even making the same brands incompatible from one model to the next. There are/were devices you can/could buy to make cable pull compatible. On some derailleurs you can alter the travel by clamping the cable inside/outside/through the pinch bolt. I have two 1x9 bikes I run with old Campy 9 speed brifters, shifting old Shimano 105 short cage derailleurs on Shimano 11-34, 9 speed cassettes, this way. Works like a dream.

 

[coachstevo]

I didn't look closely at your bike pix. Yeah, a front derailleur isn't going to fit on there. Even one of the cyclocross chain guides isn't going to work.

As to the rear derailleur being a dumb part. Only partly true with index shifting. These days everybody pulls different amounts of cable, even making the same brands incompatible from one model to the next. There are/were devices you can/could buy to make cable pull compatible. On some derailleurs you can alter the travel by clamping the cable inside/outside/through the pinch bolt. I have two 1x9 bikes I run with old Campy 9 speed brifters, shifting old Shimano 105 short cage derailleurs on Shimano 11-34, 9 speed cassettes, this way. Works like a dream.

fair enough-- shimano to shimano, SRAM to sram, Campy to campy.
SRAM has their "1:1" which isn't compatible with some of the lower stuff, but Shimano seems to be remarkably more standard (with a few nutty side tracks with some DA parts). My road bikes are all SRAM, but the MTBs (until recently) were Shimano. Wife's bikes are still all shimano, and a mix mash of models in the drive train all play well together.
The Mundo is Old school XT shifters (8 speed), with a clutched XT RD....

 

[rodgah]

Was hoping to report back how well the chain guide worked 30 minutes of testing later over the worst of my local test circuit equaled fail. :lol:

Back to the drawing board.

the bolts that hold the cover over the final reduction stage, can they be longer and protrude out of the inboard side? If so could you make a traditional dh chain guide setup from those bolts?

something like .... http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/mrp-upper-guide-sl-models/rp-prod61229 .... for the top,

and a derailleur jockey for the bottom, with a large washer on the outside to prevent the chain popping off outwards. My MRP guide I have with a proper bearing jockey is hardly noticable, though I do know the round roller type ones do suck a little power.....but if it keeps the chain on .

 

[full-throttle]

something like .... http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/mrp-upper-guide-sl-models/rp-prod61229 .... for the top

Exactly like that
Fix it to the main pivot
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46164&start=75#p725590

@ coachstevo: Shimano 10sp has different att ratio to older Shimano, so won't work without mods

 

[Rusty123]

Another way to marry up a "mismatched" cassette and derailler is to use a friction shifter. I've been using shimano 105 bar end shifters with Paul Thumbies for years, and I love them. They work great with the Bafang mid drive too, since they allow you to ease the derailler across the cassette, rather than the quick jumps you get with indexed shifting.

 

[Avigo]

Kepler...what is the diff between your test bike and this current bike. You do not have the same chain coming off with the previous bike.

 

[Kepler]

The test bike had a 7 speed cluster and a better chain line then my new bike. Also l think I am riding the new bike harder then the test bike.

I have ordered a clutched derailleur now so hopefully that will solve the problem.

 

[coachstevo]

something like .... http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/mrp-upper-guide-sl-models/rp-prod61229 .... for the top

Exactly like that
Fix it to the main pivot
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46164&start=75#p725590

@ coachstevo: Shimano 10sp has different att ratio to older Shimano, so won't work without mods

You're talking about the dynasys crap, yes those have a different cable pull. Luckily they still have all the shadow, etc components in 10 speed that don't have that issue.

Here's a great reference on this stuff: http://sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html

 

[Kepler]

Looks like all the clutched derailleurs are 10 speed and Dyna-Sys comparable only.

So choices.

Keep my standard XT rapid fire 10 speed shifter and purchase a standard 10 speed XT derailleur.
Gears will index correctly but no chain skip resolution. About a $60 outlay

Go back to 9 speed. Need a non Dyna-Sys rapid fire shifter. Already have everything else. $40 outlay

Replace both the rapid fire shifter and derailleur with a Dyna-Sys clutched setup
Should solve both issues. About a $110 outlay

I think I will go with the last option unless anyone has a better option.

 

[Rollodo]

Keep my standard XT rapid fire 10 speed shifter and purchase a standard 10 speed XT derailleur.
Gears will index correctly but no chain skip resolution. About a $60 outlay

Go back to 9 speed. Need a non Dyna-Sys rapid fire shifter. Already have everything else. $40 outlay

Replace both the rapid fire shifter and derailleur with a Dyna-Sys clutched setup
Should solve both issues. About a $110 outlay

I think I will go with the last option unless anyone has a better option.

I'd do what seems most reliable and future-proof. Probably going back to 9-speed is a good option. But then again, I don't know about bike maintenance as much as you do.

 

[Rusty123]

Looks like all the clutched derailleurs are 10 speed and Dyna-Sys comparable only.

So choices.

Keep my standard XT rapid fire 10 speed shifter and purchase a standard 10 speed XT derailleur.
Gears will index correctly but no chain skip resolution. About a $60 outlay

Go back to 9 speed. Need a non Dyna-Sys rapid fire shifter. Already have everything else. $40 outlay

Replace both the rapid fire shifter and derailleur with a Dyna-Sys clutched setup
Should solve both issues. About a $110 outlay

I think I will go with the last option unless anyone has a better option.

I'm not a mountain biker, so this is way outside my area of knowledge, but if you purchase a chainring adapter like this:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56288

You can then fit a "drop resistant" chainring like this:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Race-Face-Narrow-Wide-Chainring-Tested-2013.html

I'm considering purchasing the chainring adapter, just so that I can fit a smaller chainring on my recumbent, in order to preserve low gear capability.

 

[PaulD]

Looks like all the clutched derailleurs are 10 speed and Dyna-Sys comparable only.

You can use a 10 speed shimano rear derailleur for 9 speed if you use a SRAM 9 speed shifter. I am successfully doing this with a Shimano Zee clutch derailleur. Seems to work well. Some riders put a spacer on the shift cable clamp to get the cable pull perfectly dialed, but I am just using it as-is.

 

[full-throttle]

You can use a 10 speed shimano rear derailleur for 9 speed if you use a SRAM 9 speed shifter.

+1

You're talking about the dynasys crap

Great, another neophobic..
Quoting Sheldon's site, nice.. Was he even alive when Shimano introduced Dyna-Sys??
Have you even used it?
Cause in 18 month of riding and racing I'm yet to experience a single chain drop or even a mis-shift. Unlike 9sp stuff.

 

[Kepler]

Well after all that, it turns out the Rapidfire shifter that I already had was an XLS Dyna-Sys unit. No wonder my stock 2:1 ratio derailleurs wouldn't index properly. Been a bit of a steep learning curve over the past few days. Thought I had a pretty good handle on setting up shifters and derailleurs. Turns out I was just another hack :lol:

So from what I have read, it looks like I will need to get Dyna-Sys 10 speed cluster and matching Dyna-Sys chain also. This is becoming an expensive learning curve.

Does anyone know if a standard 10 speed cluster and chain will work with the Dyna-Sys derailleur? From what I am reading, none of the parts are interchangeable. :?

 

[coachstevo]

my understanding is that the cassette itself is cross compatible. The chain now is assymetrical

 

[full-throttle]

So from what I have read, it looks like I will need to get Dyna-Sys 10 speed cluster and matching Dyna-Sys chain also. This is becoming an expensive learning curve.

$50 for XT cassette and $30 for XT chain from CRC is not expensive. You could save a few bucks by going SLX, but what's the point?

Have a look at SRAM XX1 cassette RRP

Any 10sp chain/cassette should work
Will 10sp chain even fit on Bafang chainring?

 

[mushymelon]

I have questions about the chainring too.

I would like to run an xt shadow+ 10spd derailleur, can you use a 11-36 cassette with 46 - 48 chainring without having problems in lowest, highest gears?

Will the bafang chainring work with a 10 speed chain?

Will a non dyna-sys chainring work with the xt dynasys stuff?

What top speed can I expect with a 44 to 11 with a 750w at 50v cell man batt?

Thanks

Mushy

 

[wineboyrider]

mushymellon wrote:What top speed can I expect with a 44 to 11 with a 750w at 50v cell man batt?

What are the lvc issues for the controller based on the 14s cellman battery?

 

[mushymelon]

mushymellon wrote:What top speed can I expect with a 44 to 11 with a 750w at 50v cell man batt?

What are the lvc issues for the controller based on the 14s cellman battery?

I don't follow sorry.

I was asking how fast my bike would go if i bought a bafang 750w and ran through a 44t chainring to an 11T

But I imaging there would be no issues with the battery if you had it setup custom?