Chalz, what you described is exactly what I had imagined was wrong. Did you take any pictures of the problem and repairs? How hard was it to get to the problem? Was the problem internal in the motor or the cable connector to the battery? Thanks for the help.
New Bafang Crank-Drives
- Thread starter d8veh
- Start date
Chalz
1 W
hachiko,
On your custom battery.. I wouldn't do it. Mainly because this little motor only draws 20 amps. Off the shelf batteries do that just fine. IMHO those zippy packs are for extreme builds that draw well over 20 amps. You would also need a BMS with thermal protection, a method for connecting the battery without arcing across your connectors and then a charger that was not specifically designed for your battery. There is a good deal of risk with all of that for no good reason as you can't use that kind of power on this little motor. Save yourself from all that hassle and risk of burning down your house or workshop. Get a battery that is tried and true.
Chalz
On your custom battery.. I wouldn't do it. Mainly because this little motor only draws 20 amps. Off the shelf batteries do that just fine. IMHO those zippy packs are for extreme builds that draw well over 20 amps. You would also need a BMS with thermal protection, a method for connecting the battery without arcing across your connectors and then a charger that was not specifically designed for your battery. There is a good deal of risk with all of that for no good reason as you can't use that kind of power on this little motor. Save yourself from all that hassle and risk of burning down your house or workshop. Get a battery that is tried and true.
Chalz
Chalz
1 W
skitime,
I did not take any pictures, but it was easy to fix. I cut off about five inches of wire from the plug that comes out of the motor and goes to the battery and put a new Anderson 45 plug on the cut wires. Of course I had to also put an Anderson 45 on the wire that comes from the battery so the battery motor connection could be made. Anderson plugs are great, especially because there is no soldering involved. I highly recommend buying the crimping tool and a bag full of plugs if your going to be into e-bikes.
Is that enough info? I can take a pic if you really need it.
Chalz
I did not take any pictures, but it was easy to fix. I cut off about five inches of wire from the plug that comes out of the motor and goes to the battery and put a new Anderson 45 plug on the cut wires. Of course I had to also put an Anderson 45 on the wire that comes from the battery so the battery motor connection could be made. Anderson plugs are great, especially because there is no soldering involved. I highly recommend buying the crimping tool and a bag full of plugs if your going to be into e-bikes.
Is that enough info? I can take a pic if you really need it.
Chalz
Chalz, you were dead on about the problem. I took the battery cable connectors apart but did not find anything. Then I decided to spread the 4 male split connectors to give a better connection to the 4 female connector holes. I put it back together and took it for a spin. It had all the power without any motor shutdown. I even rode with just throttle without any problem. Thanks so much for the help. Now if I could just get the NuVinci N360 working and on the bike I would be a happy camper.
tomjasz
1 GW
Did you call LaGrand and have a conversation? I've learned that there is no substitute for direct real time conversation. While I've missed his calls, refusing to own a cellphone and retired, he did always call me back. My bad for not making it convenient to reach me.
dumbass
100 kW
spinningmagnets said:
My question at the time that "spinningmagnets" was kind enough to confirm was did my motor have a short in the phase wiring because my VOM indicted I had conductivity between the yellow and blue phase wires on the motor.
Because this was a new purchase I am working through my credit card company for a full refund (including shipping from the EBay seller (diyebikes). From what I understand the seller may have to pay the Chinese import taxes totaling as much as $400 plus about $100 for DHL return shipping just to get the defective motor back. And that's after he refund the $555 that I paid for the kit with shipping. So assuming I'm correct and assuming I win the case that's $955 he is going to pay for this junk motor plus what ever he paid originally to Bafang.
What I am wondering is; can the shored phase wiring be fixed (and at what cost)? Or is it worth making an offer to the EBAy seller to "forgive" a portion of the $555 he owes me and I just keep the kit (750w with a possible bad 20a controller). I already received a new 500w kit from California Ebikes today as it's replacement. But I could use the defective kit for spare parts? I've even wondered if I could adapt a different motor with an external controller to the gear box setup. Because I don't peddle much anymore I have zero use for the pas setup on these kits and will be running 100% on throttle anyway.
As I said is it worth keeping the damaged kit and trying to make it live again by repairing the motor, using for spare parts or for mad lab testing? In only rode it for 1 block before it quite so everything is still new.
Thoughts please..........
Bob
Kepler
10 MW
I would keep the drive and just install a stand alone 6 FET controller like this one. http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=38&product_id=77. This will open up a whole new set opportunities to experiment with the drive.
dumbass
100 kW
Kepler said:
I think your misunderstanding the problem. The short from one phase wire to the other is in the motor not the controller. So no matter what controller I use the short in the motor has to be corrected first....Right? Or is it normal for 2 of the phases to have conductivity between them? Again, please remember I am talking about at the motor not the controller.
Bob
Kepler
10 MW
I think Spinningmagnets may have misunderstood also then. Very low resistance between the motor phases is quite normal. It will be probably less less the an ohm so very close to dead short. I saw pictures of you motor opened up. The winding looked perfect in the pictures.
Below is typical Delta 3 phase motor connection. Resistance between each phase should be equal. if you have a miss match in resistance or an open circuit between phases, then you have a winding problem. Check need to be made with the controller disconnected of course. If your motor is open circuit between phase (which I highly doubt) the failure is catastrophic. The winding will will blacked and it will smell like hell.
In relation test measuring the controller, measure resistance between the battery connection negative and each of the three phases. The multimeter should read just under 10kohm. If the reading is zero a failed FETs has been identified. Now do the same measurement from the positive battery connection to each of the phase. If you pick up a zero reading, you again have a dead fet. Any of these readings will typically be about 10K or open circuit on a healthy controller.
Below is typical Delta 3 phase motor connection. Resistance between each phase should be equal. if you have a miss match in resistance or an open circuit between phases, then you have a winding problem. Check need to be made with the controller disconnected of course. If your motor is open circuit between phase (which I highly doubt) the failure is catastrophic. The winding will will blacked and it will smell like hell.
In relation test measuring the controller, measure resistance between the battery connection negative and each of the three phases. The multimeter should read just under 10kohm. If the reading is zero a failed FETs has been identified. Now do the same measurement from the positive battery connection to each of the phase. If you pick up a zero reading, you again have a dead fet. Any of these readings will typically be about 10K or open circuit on a healthy controller.
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LyonNightroad
100 W
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
- Messages
- 105
Bad Day Today 
It overheated. 90 degree temps outside. Didnt run the motor particularly hard but she shut off on me while I was going up a hill. When I try to power it back on the battery blinks and the display shuts off after 2 seconds and displays error 30. Pretty sure I need a new controller now. Still does the same thing after cooling down. Where can I buy a new controller compatible with the c961 display?
It overheated. 90 degree temps outside. Didnt run the motor particularly hard but she shut off on me while I was going up a hill. When I try to power it back on the battery blinks and the display shuts off after 2 seconds and displays error 30. Pretty sure I need a new controller now. Still does the same thing after cooling down. Where can I buy a new controller compatible with the c961 display?
dumbass
100 kW
Kepler said:
Yes your correct I think everyone was thinking controller not motor. I agree the motor it's self is clean of any burn marks or burnt wire smells. you gave me some great info. that for now I will file away. Until the dispute is settled and I know what the seller is going to do I don't want to open this motor anymore. But it sounds like to is hope for the and if it comes to it I would be perhaps willing to offer him something for it. That might work out for the best for both of us in the end. Thanks again for the help.
Bob
I apologize, I don't know what I was thinking (brain fart, tired, drunk, all three?). What Kepler said is right.
dumbass
100 kW
spinningmagnets said:
Hey, please don't apologize. There's a reason for my member's name( being (dumbass). I've always said when it comes to electronics I should have kept my old brick cell phone. Electronics totally confuses me and at 67 I don't expect things to get any better. That's why I ask the questions I ask and sometimes more then once too. It's also why I love brushed motors. Even I can figure them out.
My new 8Fun 500w arrived yesterday but I've been busy on my yard but with luck I'll get it installed next week. Here's hoping this one will be a good one. The first one was a 750 with a 20a controller. So dropping down to a 500w 18a controller shouldn't even be noticeable. Assuming there wasn't any fine tuning done to ether controller to up the power. And this one I bought from Doug at California Ebike. No more EBay sellers for me on this stuff.
Thanks again guys,
Bob
tomjasz
1 GW
EM3ev. Now lists the BBS01 as available in 3 current settings, 15A(250W), 18A, and 20A. Is there any advantage to running a 20A controller?
dilkes
100 W
Is there any experience or thoughts on mounting one of these on a bike with a Gates Belt-drive? I was considering one for my bike, but when I look at the install videos seems like the "chain" wheel is included in the kit and my "belt" wheel would need to be replaced by it?
Any thoughts welcome.
Any thoughts welcome.
jateureka
10 kW
I have no experience with doing a belt drive, but there are people selling after market adapters to allow normal chain rings to mount to the BBS01 and BBS02, so if your belt ring could mount to one of those adapters and still give a resonable belt line then it may be possible.
dilkes
100 W
Thanks for the tip. Do you happen to have any links/contact info for the sellers of those after market adapters?jateureka said:
There's a thread here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=56770dilkes said:
I think Gates chainrings come in both 104 and 130 BCD, so should be possible.
But crucial thing is whether your frame splits to allow the belt to be installed, and is stiff enough, and dropouts adjustable to get the belt tight enough.
LyonNightroad
100 W
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
- Messages
- 105
My concerns about a failed controller were wrong. One of my power wires was so corroded it turned to dust. Dont use acid cored solder even if its the last thing you have
Deanwvu
100 W
Hello all,
I have settled on using the Bafang 750 watt crank drive motor on my first ebike build.
Of course, you are aware of the shortage of the current stock of the 750 watt version, as apparently Bafang is changing the controller before releasing another batch of 750 watt motors to the suppliers.
I have two options--I can wait and purchase a NEW model with the new controller. How long could that be? Who knows--Paul at em3ev seems to be getting the run-around from Bafang on the new stock.
I have a source stateside that has a few of the OLD 750 watt Bafang motors (with the old controller), and I could order one now and have it in a week or so. This isn't SUPER imperative, as I don't have a battery yet, but it would move up my timeline considerably (all I would need is a battery and I can do the build). The price is good too for being a stateside retailer.
So, what exactly was wrong with the OLD 750 watt controller in the old set of motors? Is it worth waiting for the new stock and the new controller? Summertime is ticking away.....
I have settled on using the Bafang 750 watt crank drive motor on my first ebike build.
Of course, you are aware of the shortage of the current stock of the 750 watt version, as apparently Bafang is changing the controller before releasing another batch of 750 watt motors to the suppliers.
I have two options--I can wait and purchase a NEW model with the new controller. How long could that be? Who knows--Paul at em3ev seems to be getting the run-around from Bafang on the new stock.
I have a source stateside that has a few of the OLD 750 watt Bafang motors (with the old controller), and I could order one now and have it in a week or so. This isn't SUPER imperative, as I don't have a battery yet, but it would move up my timeline considerably (all I would need is a battery and I can do the build). The price is good too for being a stateside retailer.
So, what exactly was wrong with the OLD 750 watt controller in the old set of motors? Is it worth waiting for the new stock and the new controller? Summertime is ticking away.....
If you actually ride it on an incline that is steep enough and long enough...the heat of 25A passing through only 6 FET's will make the controller hot enough that the internal heat protection circuit will cut power frequently to save the controller from damage.
The fix is to limit the old 25A controller to 22A (assistance level 6 out of 9 possible). The new model 25A controller has 9 FETs to spread the heat out better (instead of onlt 6 FETs), and I suspect they will also be be more efficient FETs, so more of the battery amps will be converted to work instead of waste heat.
The fix is to limit the old 25A controller to 22A (assistance level 6 out of 9 possible). The new model 25A controller has 9 FETs to spread the heat out better (instead of onlt 6 FETs), and I suspect they will also be be more efficient FETs, so more of the battery amps will be converted to work instead of waste heat.
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