New Bafang Crank-Drives

[vel80]

One more addition about the coupling the BBS with EB3 controllers. These controllers don't have soft start, so some gearing issue could occur during the use of this kind of controllers on the BBS drive.
Another comment about the performance of the BBS 02, I would like to share is that I run the first BBS 02 48V 750W edition with 6 fet controller and I measure the temperature with infrared thermometer and the result is always about 15 - 18 °C above the ambient temperature, which I think is normal, moreover considering, that the stator coils are right behind the black painted aluminium motor housing.

 

[Masure]

Is there any drawing of the BBS 02 out there ? I found the BBS 01 one : http://www.alcedoitalia.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/bafang-centrale-bbs01.png

 

[speedmd]

I have the larger motor 48v system, but am running it on a 36v battery and external Holmes Mini Stealth controller for better cadence and compatibility with CA.
The stock controller was junk IMO, or at least has bad programming. Like severely low phase amps and some strange rpm limiting functions. But thats just the bike snob talking, and not a real issue with the system.

These two major changes may be causing your troubles. Trying to make it something it is not intended to be and calling it junk because it does not meet your expectations. I agree with you on the complexity and the lack of changeability. I would not pick this kit as one to mod to the degree you have and expect anything but trouble. At least at this revision. It is a general purpose, easy install, quiet kit. That is all it is ever going to be. Nothing simpler to install/ setup that allows multiple gear ratios on the fly.

 

[Lenk42602]

md,

you took delivery of one of these a few weeks ago. correct? any input on how it is holding up? problems, etc? picture?

thanks,

len

 

[speedmd]

I got the kit back in November. Finally got the bike/ battery box worked out in April and the controller died the first hour of use. The new Replacement controller is installed and working fine. Would like to program it, but they changed the cable and honestly do not want to mess with it as it is working and still have no confidence it will stay that way. I hate PAS the way it is. I also hate the thumb throttle and the speed throttle setting. I wish there were simple options to change this setup, but perfect for the wife in a grocery getter. I let everyone try it and no fear it will throw them off at the lower settings. Will see how it holds up for a few months before deciding to keep it long term.

 

[tomjasz]

Would like to program it, but they changed the cable and honestly do not want to mess with it as it is working and still have no confidence it will stay that way. I hate PAS the way it is.

Not to be a pest, but did you ever post pictures of the new cable connectors? I haven't seen them. Also a serial number? It would be nice to begin to track some of these changes. I will want a new kit one day and it sure would be helpful to be able to avoid problem versions, especially when buying used.

Thanks!



Tom

Disregard, speedmd, since you are not posting the access cable to program. My bad for not realizing this sooner...

EDIT Jst searched posts and this makes less sense to me every time I try to parse the connectors. I have tow different power cables but all the same controller cables. So far I've not run into or found anyone else posting a change from V2. It sure would help for future reference to sort this.

ANYONE ELSE have a third version of connectors on their BBS0X?

 

[speedmd]

No Key, just alignment arrow. Same size as my old alpine cd changer with smaller pins unfortunately. Sorry about the focus, and I am not pulling it apart again, pest all you want.

controller marked K5ECROF0206 and 1404.2474

 

[tahustvedt]

My BBS01 which I got in may/june this year has the same connector.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I got the kit back in November. Finally got the bike/ battery box worked out in April and the controller died the first hour of use. The new Replacement controller is installed and working fine. Would like to program it, but they changed the cable and honestly do not want to mess with it as it is working and still have no confidence it will stay that way. I hate PAS the way it is. I also hate the thumb throttle and the speed throttle setting. I wish there were simple options to change this setup, but perfect for the wife in a grocery getter. I let everyone try it and no fear it will throw them off at the lower settings. Will see how it holds up for a few months before deciding to keep it long term.

You hate the stock setup as much as me! Without an easy way to program it, I'll keep my "junkY" feelings of the stock controller :lol:


I'm thinking the range issue may be a compounding of the extra reductions efficiency hit, and a lower motor inductance causing harder power spikes. I don't know what else it could be since I got the same issue among multiple installations.

 

[speedmd]

I am sure with programing and a current /twist throttle, the poor feeling controller issues would go away as most have reported. I do not want to mess with it much as I have not decided I will keep it long. I find It is way too wide to pedal naturally. I have too many road miles on my legs to get use to something like this now for serious amounts of riding/ pedaling. For occasionally pedaling I don't mind it as much.

Your using lower voltage may be what is driving yours at lower efficiency. Reduction gearing is not effecting the efficiency on mine nor most others reporting. Pas does pull much harder than I would if I could get a good feeling twist throttle, which would save a bunch of current spikes.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Even though I'm here complaining, I'm still riding it daily :lol: its better than some other bikes I have built at least.

 

[tomjasz]

No Key, just alignment arrow. Same size as my old alpine cd changer with smaller pins unfortunately. Sorry about the focus, and I am not pulling it apart again, pest all you want.

controller marked K5ECROF0206 and 1404.2474

Doesn't make sense to me.EDITED CLUELESS DRIVEL by me. wrong connector for programming! I should have caught that...sorry.

 

[eMax]

Bafang are launching at Eurobike an updated BBS03 drive (updated internals) as well as a completely new mid-drive 250w system for Euro / Australian market. Watch this space...

 

[skyungjae]

The new mid drive looks like It's designed to be an OE part for fame's designed specifically for it.

I guess I may have to wait for the BBS-03 now. :|

Are there any pictures of the BBS-03? I wonder If It's going to physically look different.

 

[0utrider]

I guess I may have to wait for the BBS-03 now. :|

Something will always be newer and better just around the corner. I thought too about waiting until the new units were released but said to myself "Why wait?" The time to get my feet wet is now. One can always consider a future purchase as batteries, controllers and motor tech improve incrementally but the waiting game sometimes never ends.

Don't wait, get something now.

 

[skyungjae]

I guess I may have to wait for the BBS-03 now. :|

Something will always be newer and better just around the corner. I thought too about waiting until the new units were released but said to myself "Why wait?" The time to get my feet wet is now. One can always consider a future purchase as batteries, controllers and motor tech improve incrementally but the waiting game sometimes never ends.

Don't wait, get something now.

I understand; however, if the programming and hardware is much improved after our community has pointed the faults of the 02, the 03 might be substantially better.

 

[tahustvedt]

I hope they keep making mid drives that fit standard bottom brackets. I really don't like the idea of proprietary drives. I don't like proprietary anything.

 

[skyungjae]

I hope they keep making mid drives that fit standard bottom brackets. I really don't like the idea of proprietary drives. I don't like proprietary anything.

I think their DIY market is too big for them to focus only on an OE drive. They'd really have to partner up with one strong bike company or a few lesser known ones who'd be willing to develop frames specifically for their Bosch knock-off.

 

[windtrader]

I think their DIY market is too big for them to focus only on an OE drive. They'd really have to partner up with one strong bike company or a few lesser known ones who'd be willing to develop frames specifically for their Bosch knock-off.

Interesting point. It seems reasonable for them to sell both lines: integrated and aftermarket; no obvious market driven reason to drop the DIY at this point.

All major bike makers have at least two excellent choices: Bosch and Panasonic. Quality, reliability, and support are assured with these global suppliers. It is going to be hard to enter this market segment.

How many China clone e-bikes using integrated power units today? What is the potential market? Unlimited. My bet is these units start showing up on-off brand and Chinese clone bikes like a swarm of locust soon.

 

[skyungjae]

If haibike isn't locked into a contract with Bosch, I can see them (or a company like theirs) releasing a much cheaper e-mtb using the OE Bafang system.

 

[windtrader]

If haibike isn't locked into a contract with Bosch, I can see them (or a company like theirs) releasing a much cheaper e-mtb using the OE Bafang system.

One significant issue is any bike OEM who integrates a non tier 1 unit like BBS accepts the liability of increased problems associated with the drive system. I can't even image what sorts of business decisions are made to ensure the company delivers an acceptably reliable product and does not go bankrupt with failed units. Of course the cheap China clones continues in their tradition and won't have any sort of support so buyer beware as usual

 

[rscamp]

Step 1 - make a hobbyists add on system.
Step 2 - collect all the reliability data and other feedback from the guinea pigs at ES
Step 3 - incorporate lessons learned in an OEM version



Some of us can afford to wait as there is a building season and a biking season...

 

[skyungjae]

If haibike isn't locked into a contract with Bosch, I can see them (or a company like theirs) releasing a much cheaper e-mtb using the OE Bafang system.

One significant issue is any bike OEM who integrates a non tier 1 unit like BBS accepts the liability of increased problems associated with the drive system. I can't even image what sorts of business decisions are made to ensure the company delivers an acceptably reliable product and does not go bankrupt with failed units. Of course the cheap China clones continues in their tradition and won't have any sort of support so buyer beware as usual

Aye, that's why I think the complete bikes with an OE Bafang will probably sell much cheaper than anything equipped with a Bosch or Panasonic. Anyhow, I hope the BBS-03 addresses all the issues our community has had with the 02 system.

I'd be pretty happy if it came equipped with a crank spider that allowed for other types of 104 BDC chain rings and a better method of regulating the power during shifts. An ISIS type spindle, like Bosch, would be awesome, but asking too much. :lol:

 

[tomjasz]

Would like to program it, but they changed the cable and honestly do not want to mess with it as it is working and still have no confidence it will stay that way. I hate PAS the way it is.

Not to be a pest, but did you ever post pictures of the new cable connectors? I haven't seen them. Also a serial number? It would be nice to begin to track some of these changes. I will want a new kit one day and it sure would be helpful to be able to avoid problem versions, especially when buying used.

Thanks!



Tom

EDIT Jst searched posts and this makes less sense to me every time I try to parse the connectors. I have tow different power cables but all the same controller cables. So far I've not run into or found anyone else posting a change from V2. It sure would help for future reference to sort this.

ANYONE ELSE have a third version of connectors on their BBS0X?

Um, that's the main connector and NOT the connector where the programming cable plugs in. The programing cable is in fact V2 and uses the cable that plugs into the C961 panel.

 

[tomjasz]

The red circle is the connector you pictured. No? It is NOT the program port. The green oval and green connector is the programing access.
I have a different connector on my LC kit as well but it does not affect the programing with the proper V2 display extension cable.