New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[John in CR]

The 9C layout doesn't necessarily mean noisy. The motors I've been using for over 2 years are virtually identical to the new H35's, though mine do appear to have a few extra laminations with a stator stack width of 42mm. My motors are silent after the first 10ft or so taking off under heavy load, and even that take-off growl is non-existent with a sensorless controller, so it has to be cause by commutation. The 9C noise is some kind of resonance.

Other than mine having mounting issues because they are built for small Chinese motorcycles, the only difference I expect compared to the new H35 models is the turn count for the windings. I think mine are 2 turn, though they could be 3. That would put these at probably 3 turn for the speed wind and 4 for the torque wind, because these are meant for bike size wheels. Let me know when you guys are ready to race further than 100-200 yards. Keep in mind that my controller eaters have a Kv of 16rpm/volt, which, as far as hubmotors go, I've only seen matched by motors with built in rims for scooters, but mine are spoked.

The upside is that the extreme currents at high speed of the X5 will be gone. I believe that issue was caused by the X5 winding strategy, not power requirements. The downside is that these are likely to cog like mine, so pedal only will be a workout.

John

 

[itselectric]

So overall, would you say these are better motors than the 9c 9x7/9x6 motors?

From what I've seen they're kind of a middle ground between the 9C and the X5 motors?

Based on the following chart:

The HS3540 will out run the 9x7, and very close to 9x6, just a bit slower. And the 9x5 will out run the HS3540.
The HS3540 is very close to 5303 or 02
The HT3525 is very close to the Crystalyte 408, but just bit slower.

Price point, the 5x are the most expensive motors
9c had much lower price point, a bit more power then 408, so for dollar per power, 9c own the market
The HS/HT price is coming down to match with 9c price point, we should see more adaption on HS/HT

Ken

 

[methods]

So overall, would you say these are better motors than the 9c 9x7/9x6 motors?

From what I've seen they're kind of a middle ground between the 9C and the X5 motors?

Are they better? Yes
MIddle ground? Maybe... I think they are going to be better than an X5 - but that depends on your definition of "better". To me better boils down to the power to weight ratio.

What is missing here is Power Handling - and I think that is what we will find out as soon as we get these into the hands of members. People want to maximize power, minimize weight, and... if we had our wishes... minimize cost and noise at the same time.

To compare with the X5 and 9C why not just use the simulator and then come back and tell us?
http://ebikes.ca/simulator/

All of the motors are there... and the results are objective instead of subjective.

Compare the N3507 to the 5305 with all other things equal and let us know what you learn.

-methods

 

[chroot]

I looked ebikes.ca simulator for the HS3540 as which one as model N3505 or N3507?

Please let me know thanks

 

[itselectric]

I looked ebikes.ca simulator for the HS3540 as which one as model N3505 or N3507?

Please let me know thanks

N3505 = 35mm 5 turn for HS3540 speed
N3507 = 35mm 7 turn for HT3525 torque

 

[itselectric]

I just got an email from Crystalyte, they have informed me the 4x motor is now discontinue. I didn't have a chance to ask, but it looks like the 5x motor will also be discontinue. So the HT / HS will be main products from Crystalyte.

 

[methods]

Kenny realizes that the needs to change it up to be competitive in this new market

Good - that just means more new stuff for us.

I cant imagine how big of a hit he has taken over the last 2 years... The "Infineon" controllers taking over, 9C motors becoming prevalent, and then the economy crash.

-methods

 

[chroot]

@itselectric - Gotcha, thanks

 

[wojtek]

anyone can please advise if 9speed casssette would fit with this motor?

thanks

 

[methods]

I think you would be safe to assume that similar to the X5 you can space the axle out with inside washers if if wont.

The mechanical drawings are available online as well if you have measurements.

-methods

 

[itselectric]

anyone can please advise if 9speed casssette would fit with this motor?

thanks

It will fit for 9 speed freewheel, not cassette, and disc brake. Crystalyte had made all of measurement correct fit this time.

Here is the detail drawing of 9 speed 11-32 DNP freewheel, the new 9 speed is expected to be release this year with new bearing.

Ken

 

[wojtek]

thanks a lot :wink:

my velomobile is waiting for one, prob HT but can't decide.. but crystalyte europe will only have them from 21 March.
They sell them at 180EUR for rear + controller at 195EUR.

Anyone based in Europe from ES planning to sell them?

 

[itselectric]

thanks a lot :wink:

my velomobile is waiting for one, prob HT but can't decide.. but crystalyte europe will only have them from 21 March.

Well, this very much the same thing with our local customers, cannot decided HT or HS. So, I am hoping to make another video comparison this coming weekend. A race up hill between HS3540 and HT3525. My assumption is the HT3525 should go up hill better then HS3540 due to early torque delivery from the motor. We will see...watch for coming video....

Ken

 

[wojtek]

excellent stuff!

could you also advise on the ERD? [can't find on the website..]

I have been using velocity psycho rims on my eVk2 and they have been great! Strong and durable + wide so the tyre lies very nicely in them.
http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=613

 

[Andje]

Throwing this out to the wind; does anyone know what spacing we would put into the ebike.ca spoke calculator for these motors? Hub Flange Diameter/Flange Spacing is listed on the tech info, i just want to make sure this is correct before ordering spokes.
HX35 Flange spacing; 1.5" 38mm
HX35 Hub flange diameter; 8.75' 222mm

 

[itselectric]

Throwing this out to the wind; does anyone know what spacing we would put into the ebike.ca spoke calculator for these motors? Hub Flange Diameter/Flange Spacing is listed on the tech info, i just want to make sure this is correct before ordering spokes.
HX35 Flange spacing; 1.5" 38mm
HX35 Hub flange diameter; 8.75' 222mm

For those of you trying to figure the spoke length, here is the information that you need with the hub measurement. I am not the bike mechanic guy, If you have tough bike question, I may not able to answer yours.

HS3540 or HT3525 rear motor measurement:

3.3mm S (Spoke hole)
232mm DL (diameter of circle through the centers of the spoke holes , left flange)
12.5mm WL (hub width left flange)
232mm dR (diameter of circle through the centers of the spoke holes, right flange)
17.5mm WR (hub width right flange)

We use spokecalc to figure the spoke length, the spokes that we use is 168mm with single cross pattern, this will work for :
Alex DM18 26”
Alex DM24 26”
For Sun Rhyno 26” add 2mm to the spoke length

 

[chroot]

I am looking forward put my new HS3540 on my ebike to replace my RIP 9C motor. 8)

 

[methods]

Anyone based in Europe from ES planning to sell them?

I have heard some grumbling from a few folks in the UK talking about picking up a container - but at this point that would be many months out.

What controller are they shipping for only 15 additional EUR? I am guessing it would be a 20A controller - which seems like a poor match. After seeing the price list I cant believe that they would let the 72V 40A go for that little.

Funny how in the UK everybody just ads in the VAT to the sale price where as in the US (especially California) the tax is always a nice 10% surprise at the end of the transaction

-methods

 

[Andje]

ok, so for the ebikes .ca calculator, 232 diameter would equal circumference of 232*3.14 so 728.5mm/36 spokes is a flange spacing of 21mm. Im using a Sun Rino lyte which has an erd of 548mm, but substitute your own appropriately.

ERD: 548mm
Hub Flange Diameter: 232mm
Flange Spacing: 21mm
Diameter of Spoke Hole: 3.2mm
Cross: 1
# of Spokes: 36

That does indeed return a 168.4mm spoke.

 

[itselectric]

ok, so for the ebikes .ca calculator, 232 diameter would equal circumference of 232*3.14 so 728.5mm/36 spokes is a flange spacing of 21mm. Im using a Sun Rino lyte which has an erd of 548mm, but substitute your own appropriately.

ERD: 548mm
Hub Flange Diameter: 232mm
Flange Spacing: 21mm
Diameter of Spoke Hole: 3.2mm
Cross: 1
# of Spokes: 36

That does indeed return a 168.4mm spoke.

Andje:

168mm is correct length for Sun Rhyno lite rim. I look at the picture of my bike again, it was actually laced onto Crystlayte 26" rim which is same ERD as Sun rino rim. For Alex DM18 or DM24, it should 2mm shorter at 166mm.

Ken

 

[Hyena]

I don't know if I missed this somewhere else in the thread but what is the clearance like for brake calipers ?
It looks like it has more clearance than the 9Cs - which is about 14-15mm but it could be just the diagram.

Can anyone comment on what calipers do and don't fit or post up a measurement ?

 

[full-throttle]

I don't know if I missed this somewhere else in the thread but what is the clearance like for brake calipers ?
It looks like it has more clearance than the 9Cs - which is about 14-15mm but it could be just the diagram.

Can anyone comment on what calipers do and don't fit or post up a measurement ?

~ 20mm from disc to the plates
~ 16mm from disc to the side cover screw heads (hex button head M4)

 

[methods]

To make clearance on the 9C motors I take old disks, cut them down, and use them for spacers between the disk and the hub. I can make enough room to fit a Juicy 7 caliper on my Kona Stinky. Takes 2 spacers.


-methods

 

[Spacey]

Damn Methods that's a good idea, my rear disc brake keeps hitting the 9C as my one for some reason is uneven and the constant rubbing does my nut in. I was using washers which didn't help.

 

[itselectric]

Damn Methods that's a good idea, my rear disc brake keeps hitting the 9C as my one for some reason is uneven and the constant rubbing does my nut in. I was using washers which didn't help.

Will this work?
I have a lot of them! I made it for other motor (NOT for HS/HT motors), that had spacing/clearance problem with disc rotor.

Here are the measurement:
3.35mm thickness
52.88mm outer diameter
32.67mm inner diameter

- ISO Standard 6-bolt holes
- make out of stainless steal, tumbled treatment (no sharp edges)



pm me if you need one.
Ken