New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

I would also say if your guessing go a bit long rather then short.
You can always use a grinder to take off a small bit of the threads.
 
Something to think about however if you go too long on length so you have to cut the ends of the spokes off or grind the threads from popping through eyelets the nipples may end up not seating them selves fully. Best to do the math and get it right. There are sites out there to calculate for you based on hub widths, rim diameter etc.
 
Yea your probably right easy to measure. I recently bought some replacement spokes for my dd mxus from ampedbikes.com.

They came about 3mm to short and no matter of trying to convince them they were to short worked. I even bought a digital
caliper and took a picture with the old broken spoke next to the new shorter spoke to no avail.

So in that case I wish they would have sent them longer. Still the caliper was a good investment and something that has helped
me when working with my bike.
 
i used a ruler...i believe they are 166mm for mine at least. 12 gauge. i ordered some so we'll see if it fits right when i get the shipment.
 
Kiwi said:
Hey, people trying for max performance should read this on the NZ forum.

http://www.ev.geek.nz/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=162&p=436#p434

http://intoworldsofuncertainty.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/demag-torque-speed.jpg
Click to expand...


Hi All,

This is very interesting stuff :!:

Many thanks to Dave and his friends from the 'NZ Crystalyte HS builders club' for his rock solid research into the hidden secrets of the HS, for sharing his brilliant mods like e.g. 'non rotating V-type seal' :idea: , ' permanent temperature watch' :idea: and 'OIL COOLING' :idea: :idea: :idea:, as well as for the important warning on the danger of demagnetisation and permanent loss of power :shock: due to too high phase currents like 160 Amps.
Great work indeed :!: :D

Apparently the demagnetisation and loss of power by ca. 10% happend on Dave's HS.
Has anyone here also experienced such a loss of performance :?:
If positive it would be nice to know on which power levels, riding conditions, estimated phase Amps :?:
On HS only or also on HT :?:

This is really thrilling
have fun

Bikesport
 
Guess a permanent loss of performance (ca 10% less than original torque) is only happening in the 18 FET fraction.
If nobody here had the same problem it might be due to a special setup of Dave in NZ.
Really nobody here?
 
I wonder if Dave's unloaded motor speed went up by 10% which would confirm loss of magnetization.

I wonder if it was field, or temperature, or a combination of both that might have caused the effect.

Has anyone experienced this with a 9C motor?

Do the HT/HS motors use the same type of magnets as the 9C?
 
im not sure if Im just getting used to the power, but it feels like I might have some loss of performance. doesnt seem to surge forward like it used to... :cry: the other thing ive noticed is that the temps seem to be getting a tad higher. Im riding in roughly the same ambient temps as I have previously.

im on a HT, 24s, stock 12fet. im guessing the phase amps are getting up around the 100+A. I've never had the motor magnets above 50deg C. I've just broken some more spokes so Ill give it another go on a cool morning once its fixed. Its really hard to say for sure if there has been any performance loss though, it could just be in my head...
 
It is hard to judge, a quantized test is required. Falloff in magnetic field will cause KV to increase and torque to decrease. So measuring the unloaded speed will tell you. Easy to do if you have the direct plug CA and before/after readings, or just calculate the KV now and compare to other folks KV measurements.
 
Alan B said:
It is hard to judge, a quantized test is required. Falloff in magnetic field will cause KV to increase and torque to decrease. So measuring the unloaded speed will tell you. Easy to do if you have the direct plug CA and before/after readings, or just calculate the KV now and compare to other folks KV measurements.
Click to expand...

ill have to compare kv's, as I still haven't got my CA working for speed yet...
 
Hi all,

took my HS apart according to methods method explained on page 59 here and fixed the scratching sound on the cable side, which was only a black cable isolation over one phase wire coming up until on top of one knot - which is not necessary and coming alltogether too high. I simply cut the black isolation off to make it equal to the other two phase wires black isolations, which go only until just below the knots. Rest looks fine - good and tight windings with good varnish, no rust anywhere, nice work indeed, especially nice to look at is the the outer ring with it's shining magnets in the mavic open pro silver race rim. However what puzzles me is to see, that I have only 2 slots prefabricated for halls instead of three - I do not want halls anyway. With the sensorless Lyen 12 FET the HS and HT are starting from zero allways in right direction without any stuttering like I know it from sensorless model motors. So, what do I need halls for here? If direction is wrong simply change blue against green phase. With my Lyen controllers the wire colours simply fit one to one.

Now: The 2 bearings are still sitting fixed on the axle. It is difficult to press the sidecovers back on the bearings. It is only possible for me to press the side covers on the bearings by hand up to two third of the bearing width. How did those of you, who took the motor apart, manage to get the side covers entirely back onto the bearings :?:
Add some grease? Apply abbrasive paper? Apply heated air on the sidcover - how hot to not spoil the paintwork on the outside of the covers? Put the axle with stator and bearings in a freezer? Work out a press method on both side covers simultaneously? Anybody has experience with this? Any good idea?

Tks so much and enjoy your great hubs.
Bikesport
 
bikesport1000 said:
...Now: The 2 bearings are still sitting fixed on the axle. It is difficult to press the sidecovers back on the bearings. It is only possible for me to press the side covers on the bearings by hand up to two third of the bearing width. How did those of you, who took the motor apart, manage to get the side covers entirely back onto the bearings :?:
Add some grease? Apply abbrasive paper? Apply heated air on the sidcover - how hot to not spoil the paintwork on the outside of the covers? Put the axle with stator and bearings in a freezer? Work out a press method on both side covers simultaneously? Anybody has experience with this? Any good idea?

Tks so much and enjoy your great hubs.
Bikesport
Click to expand...
Hi,

for the first few times it was quite stiff to close back. But i opened the damn thing so many times that now it gets in very smoothly.

Sure grease will help. I remember aligning properly and push it as much as i could, then i used 3 vised clamps to slowly push it down equally, just enough so that the cover screws can engage. At this point i slowly screw it in , always working my way from one screw to the opposite one and so on,

hope i'm clear here
 
1) Always put the bearing into the sidecover first, then slip the lot onto the axle.

2) If you dont have a hydraulic press, use a drill press :wink: . Open the chuck fully. Adjust the table height so that when you put the sidecover on the table and place the bearing on top, the lever handle has moved just past the top point and is coming towards you.

3) Now heat the sidecover with a hairdryer or similar gear. No need to use a blowtorch and scorch the paint :mrgreen: . Put the sidecover onto a piece of wood so it doesn't cool off too fast.

4) Use freezing spray from a spraycan, available at electronic suppliy shops, to cool and shrink the bearing.

5) Now speed is of essence. Place the bearing on top of the sidecover, then take the sidecover and place it onto the drill press table.

6) Grab the handle, pull it gently down until the bearing is flat over the bearing seat of the side cover and then PULL :shock: . The bearing should easyly slide into the cover all the way down to the bottom of the bearing bore.

If it doesn't, your bore is too much undersized and needs machining out, otherwise your bearing will run too tight and prematurely fail :? .

Tip: Use quality bearings, like 6204 2RS (with 2 seals build in).

Good luck.
 
MixhaL said:
Does 8 speed freewheel will fit crystalyte HS3540 or 7 speed freewheel is max :?:
Click to expand...

8 speed on HT or HS is possible but needs some millimeter more space than the usual 135 mm of the standard mountainbike dropout. You will need an extra washer on the freewheel axle side like e.g. the 'space washer 14' from here: http://ebike.ca/store/store_motors.php.
You will need some force to get the wheel in a 135 mm dropout and you need to decide on your own if you go the risk on the frame. Then you might also want to shift the rim some millimeters to the freewheel side in the center again by altering the spoke tension accordingly. I am doing this since decades without any problems so far (e.g. a 130 mm race hub into a 122 mm tandem dropout) or with my current 2 electric bike projects, which both will run with the 8 speed freewheel (FW8Spd1132) from above website.
I would decide that on the given shifters, if they are 7 speed take a 7 speed freewheel and if they are 8 speed just take the 8 speed plus washer.
 
MixhaL said:
Does 8 speed freewheel will fit crystalyte HS3540 or 7 speed freewheel is max :?:
Click to expand...

I have an 8 speed freewheel on my HS3540, i didnt have to stretch the frame (it first but perfectly, no free space at all on my stock 135mm dropouts), i did need an aditional washer but thats it. Been working for about 1800 miles now :)
 
This is a todays quote from 'keyne' from the 'NZ Crystalyte HS builders club' forum:

I've partially demagnetized a 9x7 9C and an X5305, I thought mainly by heat , but I was running them at 65 and 75A rated current so probably 180-200A phase. The X5305 did take a bit longer to heat up, but it also took much longer to cool down! (Not my favourite motor) I basically killed them due to impatience. I'll be more careful with my HT3525 and make sure I record its kv at the start. I'll document my cooling mods if it works out well.
unquote

So demagnetisation is not a problem for HS/HT alone, but for all hubs, also the biggest ones :!:

don't worry - be happy (and careful) :wink:
 
My hs3540 motor had a small "clunk" in the bearings after 1500km.
Now today the motor sounds very "raw" so I guess my bearings are the problem, so I need to replace the bearings right now.

Electricwheels.de mentioned the 6204 2RS, is that also the size ? And I would like to invest in some really good bearings so I don't need to replace them again so fast.


imag0071fs.jpg

Inside my motor seems to be a 6203 bearing.

It is also rusty and wet....
 
Bazaki said:
My hs3540 motor had a small "clunk" in the bearings after 1500km.
Now today the motor sounds very "raw" so I guess my bearings are the problem, so I need to replace the bearings right now.

Electricwheels.de mentioned the 6204 2RS, is that also the size ? And I would like to invest in some really good bearings so I don't need to replace them again so fast.


imag0071fs.jpg

Inside my motor seems to be a 6203 bearing.

It is also rusty and wet....
Click to expand...
Yes, inside is 6204. I was disassemble my HS3540.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34060&p=502690#p502690
9C have 6203. HS3540 didn't sealed the covers.........
 
No my motor has 6203 bearings, I now installed 6203-2rsh from SKF.
There is rust inside and I think the shaft or the nuts do rust. So maybe replace it with stainless steel nuts ? I also would like to ride during winter, but they salt the roads here in wintertime, my cover also had some salty water inside. Also my freewheel has a scratchy bearing now :cry:
 
Here is the meaning of the numbers and letters printed on the bearings: http://www.gizmology.net/bearings.htm
In my HS there are 6203 RS bearings. They are new, look fine and run very light but tight (this might well change after a year).

According to above webpage 6203 RS means in detail:

6 = 'Single-Row Deep Groove Ball Bearing'
2 = 'light' (whatever that is)
03 = '17mm bore / 40mm outer diameter / 12 mm thickness' (which they measure indeed in my HS)
RS = 'single sealed'
2RS = 'double sealed'

> Brandinformation: http://www.brand-bearing.com/SKFBearing.html
> 6203 everything:
http://www.ekugellager.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6203&Wälzlager-Suche=search&sort=1a&page=1&language=en
 
Sorry, my mistake. My engine has a 6203 also. The engine is faster than the 9C, but the quality is questionable. I am not impressed by what I saw inside. While the wheel is spinning freewheel dance twist.I recommend SKF 2RS
 
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