New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

I took this from SKF webpage (as there are no tabs possible here read the attributes in a row, so e.g. for 'Water exclusion high pressure' the RSH type seal has +++ ):

quote

Table 1: Seal selection guidelines

Requirement Shields Low-friction seals Contact seals
Z / RSL / RZ / RSH / RS1

Low friction +++ / ++ / +++ / o / o

High speeds +++ / +++ / +++ / o / o

Grease retention o /+++ / + / +++ / ++

Dust exclusion o / ++ / + / +++ / +++

Water exclusion
- static - / o / - / +++ / ++
- dynamic - / o / - / + / +
- high pressure - / o / - / +++ / o


Symbols: +++ excellent ++ very good + good o fair - not recommended

unquote

The 6203 2RSH ist the best one for grease retention, dust exclusion and water exclusion, but those I just got now do turn with some friction (as predicted in the above table) - not really convincing to a race component freak like myself. Guess I am more the RZ type.
 
Hi All,

As I have no race bike here but an HS easily able to generate 2000 W plus of power (which no race biker will ever be able to perform) I will not think about 15 Watt or so consumption on the SKF 6203 RSH bearings anymore, but I want to install them now.

I pulled the sides off, the cable side with a 3 way puller. Both China 6203 bearings are still in there original place on the axle and absolutly tight.

The inner ring of any 6203 has exactly 17 mm. The axle however has only 16,75 mm :shock:
So the Chinese 6203 must have some extra material between it's inner ring and the axle to fill the 0,25 mm difference.

If I slide the SKF 6203 on the axle I can feel the differnce of 0,25 - this is definitely not a match between axle and bearing.

If I pull now the Chinese 6203 off, I might destroy the extra material - and I would have no idea how to compensate the 0,25 mm between the SKF and the axle.

Did anyone had the same experience :?: How was it solved :?:

Bikesport
 
Hmmm I never checked that, just installed it and it seems to be fine. Did you slide the bearing all the way towards the stator ? Maybe the shaft is a bit wider direct next to the stator.
 
The Chinese 6203 are still in place. I slided the SKF all the way down until they touch the Chinese 6203. Up to this position the axle has only 16,75 diameter and there is no fit to the 17mm of the SKF.
May be you are right and the axle is wider the last 12 mm.
Does anybody know this :?:
 
Chinese bearings are off now. The axle is thickening indeed to 16,98/17,00 mm, which is just fine for a 'temperature fit' with the SKF.

Where can I get these teflon phase wires from :?:

A temperature probe wire must also fit in addition. I'll take the Jeti temperature sensor MT 125 EX with the sensor to be epoxied just under and with contact to one of the knots and the tiny little electronic outside (sensor wires are long enough), which just works fine together with the Jeti Box as a display with 1 or 2 little lipos (3.4 to 8,4 V operating range ca. 25 mA/H) - no furher RC equipment required. Range -55 to 125 Celsius/ accuracy 0,5 Celsius. You can also install 2 sensors as the MT 125 comes with 2 - both simultaneously on the display with highs and lows recorded per sensor 8)
 
To have a starting point for demagnetisation tests later (this is being extensively discussed in the NZ forum): I needed exactly 8 kg of vertical pulling force until an SKF 6203 2RSH comes off the neodym magnets. These nice magnets are really powerful :D
 
sn0wchyld said:
DimGr said:
please excuse me for the question...but what's the maximum KW that HT3525 can handle?
I'm planning to use 100V battery and 50A controller...
Click to expand...


Im running that right now, acceleration's a bit muddy below 10km/h or so, but after that.... woooohoooo! hehe. I try and ride pretty conservatively, some have burnt these motors (more the HS) at levels lower than 3kw, so be very carefull, and try and only use bursts of power that high, rather than running round at wot 24/7. Given that my motor covers havent gone over 45deg yet, im planning on upping the amps soon... but I stress that I try and be easy on the motor 90% of the time, and I'll be adding forced air and temp monitoring before upping the amps any more.
Click to expand...


Did you add forced air already? If positive - how?
 
I have bent my 24" rear rim and need to re lace a new wheel. I notice that an old 24" bicycle DH rim I have may work but I will need to drill out the spoke holes on the rim to make room for the big spoke nipples. Is this OK or should I try and purchase the same rim again from the shop were I got my HS3540 originally. Maybe they were just bike rims that were drilled out as well I am not sure. I have bent this rim when I let it fall off the work bench and of course the weight of the hub meant that when it hit the concrete floor it flatened the rim. I have road it for a bit in this state but now its time to fix it.

Second question on the HS3540, I see on my wheel after taking the spokes out that the drives side and non drive side spokes are the same length. Is there no dishing required on this rear hub. I would have thought the drive side would have needed shorter spokes to dish the wheel to that side. Maybe with the disc placement the wheel sits centered over hub spoke holes not sure. Does any one know if dishing is required on this HS3540? Also wondering if there is a recommended rim for this hub in a 24" that is extra strong. My bike is build mainly for the trails and starting to weigh a bit ..............like 85lbs. OUCH!

Thanks wayne
 
bikesport1000 said:
sn0wchyld said:
DimGr said:
please excuse me for the question...but what's the maximum KW that HT3525 can handle?
I'm planning to use 100V battery and 50A controller...
Click to expand...


Im running that right now, acceleration's a bit muddy below 10km/h or so, but after that.... woooohoooo! hehe. I try and ride pretty conservatively, some have burnt these motors (more the HS) at levels lower than 3kw, so be very carefull, and try and only use bursts of power that high, rather than running round at wot 24/7. Given that my motor covers havent gone over 45deg yet, im planning on upping the amps soon... but I stress that I try and be easy on the motor 90% of the time, and I'll be adding forced air and temp monitoring before upping the amps any more.
Click to expand...


Did you add forced air already? If positive - how?
Click to expand...

nope, just finalising how im doing it now, should be running in the next week or so. using some old laptop fans, they move a huge amount of air for their size.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fujitsu-...ultDomain_0&hash=item2c5b08f429#ht_2338wt_834
Ill let you know how it goes...
 
waynebergman said:
I have bent my 24" rear rim and need to re lace a new wheel. I notice that an old 24" bicycle DH rim I have may work but I will need to drill out the spoke holes on the rim to make room for the big spoke nipples. Is this OK or should I try and purchase the same rim again from the shop were I got my HS3540 originally. Maybe they were just bike rims that were drilled out as well I am not sure. I have bent this rim when I let it fall off the work bench and of course the weight of the hub meant that when it hit the concrete floor it flatened the rim. I have road it for a bit in this state but now its time to fix it.

Second question on the HS3540, I see on my wheel after taking the spokes out that the drives side and non drive side spokes are the same length. Is there no dishing required on this rear hub. I would have thought the drive side would have needed shorter spokes to dish the wheel to that side. Maybe with the disc placement the wheel sits centered over hub spoke holes not sure. Does any one know if dishing is required on this HS3540? Also wondering if there is a recommended rim for this hub in a 24" that is extra strong. My bike is build mainly for the trails and starting to weigh a bit ..............like 85lbs. OUCH!

Thanks wayne
Click to expand...


I have used normal bicycle rims with double butted 2,3/2mm DT Swiss Alpine spokes (excellent stainless steel!). No drilling necessary and so far so good - guess what is good for downhill should be good enough for an HS/HT as well.

The spokes can be same length on both sides, as the flanges are constructed already outside of the hubs centre but exactly in the middle of a 135 mm dropout, so that the rim will be 'in the middle' of the flanges when the rim is laced to the center of the frame. I was not expecting this and noticed it as a nice surprise during the lacing job, which I am normally doing without any special instruments directly in the bikeframe. Very well constructed from Crystalyte! Hope this is understandable.
 
Thanks bikesport, great info. Was it hard to source out the Swiss DT in the shorter length that we need for our one cross and large flange hubs? And sorry but not sure what the " 2,3/2mm " means for size. Could you please explain what the 2,3/2mm refers to. I am guessing its the gauge of the spoke but just not sure how to comunicate this over the phone to a bike shop in english. If I would be saying two comma 3 backslash 2 mm which I am sure is how to spec the spoke on paper but I just dont know how it would be asked for over the phone or in person. Thanks again...........wayne
 
Hi Wayne,

here is the only shop I could trace for such short Swiss DT Alpine special 2.34/2 spokes (the spokes in my image pic), as they own a special lengthening machine:
http://www.whizz-wheels.de/produkte/speichensonderlaengen.html
Try your order in English - case need I could be the 'language bridge' for you.

Here is a good spoke calculator: http://ebikes.ca/SpokeCalc.shtml

For a 24" rim I would try radial (max one cross, but here the angle of spoke into rim hole might be too big).

2,34 is the spoke diameter at the flange hole and 2 is the spoke diameter at the rim hole in millimeter.

Take brass nipples for 2mm spokes 12mm long - they last for decades and can take lots of load.

I would take the existing 24" rim - should give you kind of rocket acceleration with an HS.
If you look for a new rim: try 'Mavic' - I use them since 1995 and never had to exchange one. Maximum stability at low weight!

And never mind what the experts are saying or writing: For an HS or HT put ALL spokes on both sides from the outer side of the hub into the spoke holes of the hub's flange!

Have fun with the lacing job!
Bikesport
 
:idea: Kiwi-Watercooling for 6 kw plus continuous :twisted: see here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26029&start=195#p530781 :!:
 
Just wanted to revive this thread somewhat to post a bit of a warning, going back to the 'ol wire cutting issue...

some like me did a 'fingernail' mod, where a U shaped piece of steel/alloy was inserted into the wire grove to cover and protect the wires from the cutting issues...

All I can say though is REMOVE THE SPRING in the seal... after about 1000km I've taken my motor apart to make some mods (cooling etc) and found that the spring that holds the seal in place had actually cut into the stainless steel thumbnail cover!! by the looks it'd take a thousand or so km yet to cause an issue but still... these seals are so bad that they will cut through steel, not just wires!! :shock: :shock:

so to all those who used the fingernail mod on its own, make sure to check it asap, and make sure your not having the same problem leading to cut wires a few 100 or 1000 km down the road! and if you see gouges in it at all, pull out the spring asap!

hope it helps save some motors!

ps
cooling these things makes 'em brilliant! :twisted:
 
Hi Sn0wchyld,

are you going on using a thumbnail? I checked my thumbnail out of 0,5 mm Alu - half of the material is already away.

Would you share your cooling mod? My HT is running great in my tandem but the HS is still open...

brgds
bikesport
 
bikesport1000 said:
Hi Sn0wchyld,

are you going on using a thumbnail? I checked my thumbnail out of 0,5 mm Alu - half of the material is already away.

Would you share your cooling mod? My HT is running great in my tandem but the HS is still open...

brgds
bikesport
Click to expand...

I'm still using the thumbnail... but ive taken out the seal ring. its the little spring in the seal that was doing all the cutting. I didnt figure there's much point in having a seal when you've got 33mm holes in the side of your motor. :|

no probs, ill try and post some pics asap... My mods are nothing unusual though, just a few fans and a temp probe.
 
Idk if anyone is interested, but I was talking to ilia today and he is getting some new 40 mm hub motors in a month or so. He explained to me that they are SIMILAR to the new 5400 motors but based off of the HX motors. This sounds like the perfect opportunity to start saving up for one of these puppy's! I know hyena got a couple of the super high torque versions but I wanna know what the speed version will be capable of. I'm getting pretty pumped about this since I'm worrying about over heating my HS3540 at 2500-3000 watts continuous, so maybe this would be the perfect time to upgrade to the same power level without worrying about the overheating issue.
Well that's my .02 cents
Enjoy! :D
 
Sounds interesting Trackman. I hear Lyen also is in line to get his hands on some 5404 motors tho I have no idea on the details for them.
Guess if I was a betting man I would say they should be similar to what you are speaking.

I regularly run 4-5k into my non modded HT 3525 so far with no negative impact.

If you could get any specs on those motors ilia is getting id be interested to hear.

thanks for sharing
 
John in CR said:
Hyping another new unproven Xlyte motor. Didn't you guys learn your lesson last time?
Click to expand...
Welll John in CR I wouldn't call it unproven just unheard of. If these are the same motors I am thinking about, then hyena has one on his bike. From what I read in his little page is that he is pretty freaking happy with it. But then again that's if he has the same motor ilia is talking about. I'm willing to bet thy these are worth the hype being that crystalyte failed miserably on the HX motors so how could they possibly screw it up again?
Haha it's still all speculation, I'm just a terribly positive person, maybe more than is good for me.
 
These are the greatest thing since sliced bread, sell a kidney to buy one from me next week :p

The super high torque ones I had previously are NOT these, they were regular H35s just in a really low speed wind.
The HI40 is what I have on my stealth fighter and it does 80km/hr on 72v. Check out the last half a dozen videos on my youtube channel to see how it goes.
As stated, they're basically just a wider version of the H35, which is a wider version of 9C style motors, which is a narrower version of a cromotor. Confused yet ? :p

Being wider they do have more copper and bigger magnets so that helps with the torque and they are a heap lighter than the old 5400s so thats good, especially considering they're in very short supply and will probably disappear soon. As for the power level, I've pushed 5000-7000w through mine and it's gotten hot but hasn't blown up. That said if you flog it like a noob at that power level then don't be surprised if it does let go. As with lesser motors run at high speed, I'd recommend running them air cooled to get the best from them.

My shipment arrives in a few days and most are spoken for but if anyone is really keen for one I do have a few spare. They won't be priced to suit savvy DIYers after a bargain though :p
 
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