New enthusiast with some questions on getting a first bike.

[Lenk42602]

watcha writin?

 

[mlrosier]

Ok, this is what I have done, and I need to know what to do from here. I don't want this to get any more messed up than it already has.

Made a new negative line anderson connector/cable to go from Negative Controller to Negative Battery Pack:

The remaining Good Fuse, 40amp, to go from Positive Controller to Positive Battery Pack:

Multimeter Continuity test from Controller, Am I doing it right? :

Multimeter Continuity test on Fuse line:

Ok, so what do I do to test the controller with this setup? Is it ok to test using the 40amp fuse? Do I just plug the battery pack in and switch the controller on? Do I take one of my 28v battery packs out of series and parallel and plug it in by itself to test? Thank you everyone.

 

[TylerDurden]

Looking good.

Replace the 40A fuse with a 5A, hookup and check for a power indicator.

OK... then see if the throttle makes the motor go.

 

[mlrosier]

Tyler,
All I have around here is a 15amp fuse. Will that work, or does it absolutely have to be a 5amp fuse?
Also, do I hook up just one 28v 3ah pack, or do I hook up my combined 84v 6ah setup to test?

Thanks again.

 

[TylerDurden]

If you can nab a 5 or 10 outta your car, they would be better. The idea is to avoid too much juice blasting in there if something is amiss.

You don't need all 6 batts, 3 @ 84V will be fine.

 

[mlrosier]

Ok, I went to the local Gas Station and picked up some fuses, I dropped a 5amp in, hooked everything up, flipped the switch and BAM!!!...a red LED came on. lol. So then I hooked everything back up to the bike, turned it on again, and the C/A came on, which by the way, how do you get it to show MPH instead of KPH? Ok, so I slowly turned the throttle, and holy hell, the bike about flew through my garage door.

Now, for the really really bad news. I installed my Cycle Analyst upside down.

Ok, so thanks to all of you from the bottom of my heart!! Once my new fuse holder arrives, I can get this thing going, after I buy some black zippy ties that is. lol. I am a bit concerned though about the shoddy soldering job on the controller's board. Should I request an exchange with Ebikes.ca on that? I don't like all of the solder splatter, it's inviting a short.

Thanks again everyone. I will keep you posted on the outcome of this. I should get my new fuse thing tomorrow, and I should, with a little luck, be able to take this baby out for a spin shortly thereafter. *Fingers Crossed*.

Oh, one other thing. Anyone have any recommendations on how to keep the controller box weatherproofed and shielded from water and such? It's rainy here in Illinois, and I would hate to get caught in the rain and have everything fried.

Thank you.

On a side note, I'm super anxious to ride. Would I be able to get away with using the 40 amp fuse alone, or do I need to wait for the double fuse holder, and put both of those in line with the positive side of things?

 

[Link]

On a side note, I'm super anxious to ride. Would I be able to get away with using the 40 amp fuse alone, or do I need to wait for the double fuse holder, and put both of those in line with the positive side of things?

No, you can just use a fuse on one side of the line. My breaker is set up the same way.

 

[mlrosier]

So I can just use one 40 amp fuse then? Grrrrr....too bad it's raining, and too bad I only have white zip ties right now.

 

[mlrosier]

I have another question. In my previous post showing the controller board and bad solder job, there is a round green thing in the glue that was attached to the board. Anyone know what it is, or what it's for? Is it suppose to be under the board to prevent the bottom welds from contacting the housing?

 

[TylerDurden]

Is it suppose to be under the board to prevent the bottom welds from contacting the housing?

Looks like it... mebbee another owner can confirm.

Sorry... I also shoulda advised you test the motor with the wheel up. :lol:

Don't worry about the solder spatters. If they really bug you, you can scrape them off with a small knife or screwdriver.

There should be a thread regarding water blocking here somewhere.

Re the CA: just ride upside-down.

 

[Ian]

check out a cheapo steel frame mountain bike , put in a crystalyte brush motor and run it with a 51v10ah li-poly at 8pounds weight

 

[lazarus2405]

First off, you did good. Everything looks right, and in good condition. You've dodged a bullet.

Take the time to set up the CycleAnalyst. Justin needs to get around to writing a full manual, so in the meanitmer you have this setup guide: http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain/Temporary_CA_Manual.txt and this older manual: http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain/DrainBrain_Manual.pdf

There should be a thread regarding water blocking here somewhere.

You mean building your own waterblock, the part of a watercooling system that acts as a heatsink, attaching to the heat source and channeling water through itself to carry away heat?

Or do you mean a procedure in Guantanamo?



Try searching for waterproofing. There are many good tips. Generally, you want to add drip loops in wires, seal the the cracks in your controller and grommets, and exit points of wires elsewhere, with something like silicone sealant, and add "high dielectric" silicone spray-on grease into the mechanism of your throttle. (That last one is used in cars to keep water out of things, including electronics.)

The round green thing in glue acts as a shim to hold the board up above the metal casing . It's a pretty crappy job, to. You can leave it or redo it, as long as it's secure and keeps the bottom of the board from touching the controller case. If the solder on the bottom of the board touches the case and shorts with something else, it can blow the controller.

Regarding the fuse, one 40a fuse will do if you take it easy. That controller's current limit is 48a, so you can easily blow that fuse if you run at full throttle for more than a second or two. That won't damage anything (except the fuse, of course), but it would be an inconvenience, especially if you run out of fuses and have to pedal home!

You can buy a new fuse holder at Radioshack for a couple bucks. You want two fuses in parallel in one side of the battery circuit, not one fuse in each side of the battery circuit. So, make a fuse holder that has two fuses in parallel, terminated in one Anderson at each end. Here's how: Cut off the damaged holder and discard it. On the good fuse holder, cut off some insulation on either side of the actual holder, but before the Andersons. Strip the ends of the new fuse holder, wrap the exposed ends around the exposed wire in the old fuse holder, and solder the two connections together. Wrap it with splice tape. Then populate the holders with two 25a fuses. Depending on the quality and brand of the fuses, they will blow if the battery current exceeds 50 amps for a second, or two, or three. This is fine, as it will protect the batteries all the same (Even 90a for a quarter of a minute won't be a problem for that pack).

Also, if you find that that power is too much for you (I sure hope you don't. ), you can always switch to 56v. It'll take a little rewiring, but you could run the six packs in a 2s3p configuration. Less voltage, more amphours, same energy capacity.

 

[mlrosier]

Hey Laz. Whew....It's done. I got it all together, and with BLACK zippy ties this time. I also relocated the controller. I have an E-bike Smile on my face. I let my brother ride it, and he was in Heaven. I did notice a couple of odd things. First, on the Cycle Analyst, if you watch in my video, it's only showing 3Ah, shouldn't it be 6? Second, is this right, I started out at 86v, went a total of about 5.5 miles, and ended with 80v. You said to cut it off at 76v, so that tells me I'm not going to get crap for range, am I right? Also, when I first started riding, I could creep up to 30 mph, then when I got to the 5 mile mark, I noticed a significant drop-off in power. At full throttle, I was lucky to get to 20mph. The only thing I did on the Cycle Analyst was change to MPH, set the max allowable amps to 40amps, and set the voltage cutoff to 77v. Amps were at 50 before I set it. And voltage cutoff was at 24v before I changed it.

20 to 25mph is plenty fast for me. 30 was kinda scary. lol. So if I average 25mph, shouldn't I get a 25 mile range on one charge?

Oh, and the best thing...I had almost all of my neighbors coming out of their houses to "nose". The looks on their faces were priceless. I took it up a pretty steep hill at 19mph, and some kids were freakin out about how I was doing it without peddling. lol.

Anyways, here's my video....



Also, I charged my batteries, two in parallel per charger. Two sets charged fully, the third didn't until I unhooked them and charged them individually. However, all three sets, when they were done, the charger was strobing red and green, is that bad?

Also, from the C/A Manual...

- Volts Limit - Program the low voltage rollback point for your battery pack
(default: 19V). The Cycle Analyst will reduce power drawn from the controller in
order to keep the battery voltage from dropping below the limit.
- Max Amps - Set the upper current limit (default: 50A). If the Cycle Analyst
senses current above this value, it will attempt to reduce the current by scaling
down the throttle override signal.

What should I set these to, based on my setup?

 

[lazarus2405]

Sounds like a bad battery connection somewhere. Ride the bike until you reach your LVC, then go charge all the batteries individually. If my suspicion is correct, three will be dead and three will be fully charged. In this case, you'll have a bad solder to one of the packs.

When you say you're getting 5 miles, are you sure your batteries were all fully charged first? And how hard were you riding?

The CA will show used amp-hours each trip. It'll start at zero and count up. I used to get ~5.5ah while keeping a good safety margin. If you're at 81v, you've got a while left to go.

Regarding the setup of the CA, there are a few kinks involved. First, the Rshunt in the advanced settings needs to be calibrated one way or another. If that's not set correctly, everything derived from the current measurement (current limit, amp-hours, watt-hours, watts, amps, etc) will be thrown off.

If the RShunt is too low, it will prematurely limit the current, and it'll feel... well, puny. I had this problem initially, and I could barely keep up at 30mph. Very bad when riding in traffic. If the Rshunt is too high, it'll show a much lower amp draw than normal.

Try unplugging the CA and ride a little. If it feels torquier, with more acceleration, and higher top speed, then the CA is prematurely limiting, meaning that because one limit or another it is sending a throttle override signal. If that's the case, run without the CA for a couple miles and you'll really have an ebike grin!

Does anyone know a good RShunt setting for the clyte v2 controllers? From the v2 information thread it sounds like a good value for a 48a controller might be 5.4miliOhms, but it seems awfully high. A typical shunt measures ~1mOhm.

 

[lazarus2405]

Oh, for amp max and volt min...

If you want the full power out of your setup, set the amp limit to anything above 50. The CA will detect current spikes perhaps twice that, so don't worry if you have a higher value for the peak recorded amps. Should you want a lower limit, in case you want to try to stretch your range or make acceleration more manageable, go for it. I had fun with a 10a limit for sidewalks.

With the voltage minimum, it depends. You want your LVC to be your resting voltage, but when you draw power from it the voltage sags. When you're at, say, 80v resting, your voltage sag will drop it below the LVC, and to be safe the CA will try to scale back the throttle. This is no fun when you have a bout 1/3 of your capacity left! The alternative is to turn off the LVC in the first place. Set it to an abnormally low value, like 60v. The drawback is that you'll have to be reasonably attentive and not just ignore the batteries, since then the CA won't cut it off for you.

You should be able to get ~20miles at 25mph. Maybe a tad over 25 miles at 20mph. A lot less at full throttle.

 

[mlrosier]

Sounds like a bad battery connection somewhere. Ride the bike until you reach your LVC, then go charge all the batteries individually. If my suspicion is correct, three will be dead and three will be fully charged. In this case, you'll have a bad solder to one of the packs.

Would this be why the CA is showing only 3Ah when I'm at a dead standstill with the power on?

When you say you're getting 5 miles, are you sure your batteries were all fully charged first? And how hard were you riding?

Yep, my batteries were fully charged. Charged them up lastnight before I went to bed.

Regarding the setup of the CA, there are a few kinks involved. First, the Rshunt in the advanced settings needs to be calibrated one way or another. If that's not set correctly, everything derived from the current measurement (current limit, amp-hours, watt-hours, watts, amps, etc) will be thrown off.

If the RShunt is too low, it will prematurely limit the current, and it'll feel... well, puny. I had this problem initially, and I could barely keep up at 30mph. Very bad when riding in traffic. If the Rshunt is too high, it'll show a much lower amp draw than normal.

Try unplugging the CA and ride a little. If it feels torquier, with more acceleration, and higher top speed, then the CA is prematurely limiting, meaning that because one limit or another it is sending a throttle override signal. If that's the case, run without the CA for a couple miles and you'll really have an ebike grin!

Does anyone know a good RShunt setting for the clyte v2 controllers? From the v2 information thread it sounds like a good value for a 48a controller might be 5.4miliOhms, but it seems awfully high. A typical shunt measures ~1mOhm.

Back into unfamiliar territory for me. I don't know what you mean by RShunt. Also, has anyone put an inline on/off switch between their C/A and Controller? If so, can I see how you did it? Rather than having to unplug everything, I'd love it if I could put an On/Off switch in.
Also you said that I should put the Amp limit over 50amps, but then said you had fun on 10amp. I'm confused. lol. Honestly, sometimes it doesn't take much to confuse me. Also, how would I go about testing for a bad battery connection if there is one present?

 

[lazarus2405]

Would this be why the CA is showing only 3Ah when I'm at a dead standstill with the power on?

The Ah display is used capacity. It means that as you stand there, not moving any, you've used 3Ah of electricity since you last charged your batteries. Fresh off the charger, the CA should automatically see that the voltage is higher than when it turned off, and reset that value to zero.

Yep, my batteries were fully charged. Charged them up last night before I went to bed.

Try what I suggested. Charge them all up, ride around, and then check the batteries. I suspect that you have a broken connection, so that only half of your batteries are being drained. Check to make sure that they're all being drained equally, by the built-in fuel gauge on the packs, or by checking their voltage, or by timing how long they take to charge.

You can also test to make sure your groups of three batteries are actually connected. Connect them in series, but not in parallel, and measure the voltage of each. If they both measure ~84v, you're fine. If one is ~84v and the other doesn't really read, then that's your problem. You have a broken connection and thus your range sucked because you were using half of your batteries.

Okay, about RShunt. It's short for the resistance of the shunt. The shunt is a part in the controller which allows the current to be measured. It has a very low, yet known, resistance. When current flows across it, because of the resistance there is a very small voltage drop. The more current, the larger the voltage drop across the shunt. The controller measures this drop in order to measure the current. This allows it limit the current, since once it knows the current coming from the battery it can dial back the power sent to the motor so it does not exceed the limit.

Each controller is built calibrated to its own shunt. This makes the shunt the easiest way to increase a controller's current limit; just add some solder. However, since the CA is made to operate with a wide variety of controllers, it has a setting so that you can dial in your controller's shunt resistance, so it can properly calculate the current. It's about the second option in the Advanced setup menu.

Many of us, including me, have implemented some sort of switch for the throttle limit. You can set the CA speed and current limits low for any reason (to behave on sidewalks, to be legal if the bike is investigated, if you want to hold yourself to a low power to extend your range) and add a switch. I modded mine right into the side of the CA case. On for limited, off for "turbo" mode. To do this, specifically, you'd need a toggle switch (SPST) spliced inline with the green wire somewhere between the CA circuitboard and the controller circuitboard.

When I said I had fun with 10a, I mean that I set the current limit to 10 amps and just rode out into the country. I held the throttle at full, and it would go at a nice calm pace, slowing down up hills and speeding up down the hills. By keeping the current limit, or speed limit, low you can make it easier to conserve battery power.

 

[ngocthach1130]

okay. you only need one fuse holder. use something like 30 is better to protect your equipment. 40 is okay if you suspect your bike might draw more at the beginning. You only need one because you need a fuse between the positive connection from the battery to the motor. Why would you need fuse on both the negative and the positive. If one fuse blow it will cut power anyway. Now if your bike draw REALLY high amp then yes you can follow lazarus suggestion of putting 2 parallel fuse on the positive side. Otherwise just use one. Because if the current spike the fuse is going to blow anyway. So why burn 2 fuse at once when one can suffice. Wasting fuse. better off taping the fuse to the holder to have a spare in case you're stranded midway. I only have one spare with me because if both blows, i take that as a sign to not pumping anymore electricity into it.

Btw. You should prop or hold the wheel off ground if you're doing testing work. Run away bikes will result in damages to bikes as well as stuff around you, worse you. I find this the hard way when i test my modifies scooter in my living room and have it broke the entertainment system.

 

[mlrosier]

Awesome. Thanks again guys. I will test the batteries today when I get home from doing errands with the gf. As for the CA, when you put your switch in, when you switch it to "Behave" mode, does the display still stay on so you can monitor Voltage level? They should modify these units at the shop so that they have two memory buttons. That way you can have two settings to ride the bike on. One for "Behave", and one for "Let Loose". Any chance you can show me a photo of your switch assembly Laz? I'd need to see how you have the switch installed and soldered before I go dinking around inside mine.

Thanks again. I'll report on my batteries later today.

I did a real quick voltage reading on each of my batteries just to see where they're at hot off the charger. All but two of them are reading 28v on the multimeter. Two of them are reading 27v. The two that are doing that, are the two that I use to connect both series in parallel. The ones with the really long lead wires that connect to the controller's battery connector. One pack has a positive lead coming from the pack, then a branch off wire just before the anderson connector goes to the controller connector. The same scenario for the other battery pack, but the wire comes off of the negative. So are the long lead-off wires causing some resistance or something?

 

[lazarus2405]

Something is wrong, then. Hot off the charger they all should be 28.7v-28v.

When are you ending the charge cycle? If you have red/green strobing lights, it isn't done. That's the charger's general error message. In your case, removing the pack and reseating it should do it. Charging everything until solid green lights should bring every pack voltage up to the fully charged range.

If, when charging in parallel, those two end packs still do not charge, you have at least one faulty connection in each pack. Check everything, every crimp and every solder. Use your multimeter. A good connection will read ~0 Ohms across the connection.

Most likely, the connection where your wires branch off is bad. On the pack with the positive branch off, put one multimeter probe in the negative Anderson and test both positive andersons. They should be exactly the same. If the connection is broken, you'll have no volts in one of them.

 

[lazarus2405]

Regarding the CA modification, I can't post any pics because I mailed mine back to be upgraded to handle >100v. However, it is very simple. You want some sort of on/off switch spliced into the green wire. There is only one green wire. You can put that switch anywhere you like. I cut a rectangle in the side of my CA case and epoxy'd it in.

Some people use switches elsewhere or hidden reed switches. Sometimes it is desirable to hide the "turbo" button, say, in case an officer would like a close look.

When you flip this switch, nothing visibly changes at all. All it does is disables all the limiting features. To see what effect it has, you could cut the green wire. somewhere. You can always solder it back.

The v2.1 CA has the ability for on-the-fly current or speed adjustment. With the addition of a potentiometer and a knob, you can adjust the speed limit or current limit on the fly.

 

[mlrosier]

Well, I found out why there is a problem with the batteries. The andersons are not staying connected when I put everything in the bag. It's quite annoying.
How hard would it be to dissect the packs and make one or two battery bricks? Would I be able to charge it with the Milwaukee Charger? Would I be able to get away with using one BMS for all of the cells if I did just one block, or would I need to do two blocks with two BMSs?
It's harder than crap to get the batteries as they are now, into the bag on the rack, and because of the tight fit, the Anderson connectors are breaking connection in the Series of batteries.

 

[lazarus2405]

It's harder than crap to get the batteries as they are now, into the bag on the rack, and because of the tight fit, the Anderson connectors are breaking connection in the Series of batteries.

Yup, that'd do it.

Perhaps you can try loading the batteries differently. I ended up having to put the middle batteries in last, so I could make sure the end batteries were as snug in the ends of the bag as possible.

How hard would it be to dissect the packs and make one or two battery bricks? Would I be able to charge it with the Milwaukee Charger? Would I be able to get away with using one BMS for all of the cells if I did just one block, or would I need to do two blocks with two BMSs?

Well, if all you need is space, the very, very easiest option would be to take off the sides of the cases, leave the plastic tops intact, and cover the rest with duct tape or something. Functionally everything would work in exactly the same way as now, except the packs would be a bit smaller and perhaps a little more fragile.

You could also go whole hog and do something similar to what I did, earlier in this very thread: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3813&start=40

You could do the exact same, making three subpacks, each containing the guts of two Milwaikee packs. However' it takes build time. If I was in your position, I'd take a simpler route and just enjoy that ebike grin.

 

[kbarrett]

You might just want to get a roll of 1 inch heat shrink tubing and a heat gun.

That will hold the andersons ( as well as the other connectors ) together, and not look like a wad of tape.

As for zip ties and tire changes, I keep a handful of zip ties, and a pair of dikes, in my bike's tool bag. If I need to cut a ziptie to change a tire, it's no big deal. I have even used the zip ties to fix stuff on a temp basis ( like my CA display's mounting bolt ejecting on the road ).

 

[Deepkimchi]

Yep - had the same problem with my anderson connectors disconnecting when I hit a bump.

I use clear scotch tape, wrapped in one layer around each connector, with a short section sticking out (tab) so I can unwrap them easily.

DK