New Freewheel Crank Options...outboard BB!

[Leebolectric]

http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/01/14/119081/

Interesting stuff.
I would die to have quality Shimano cranks on a mid drive, that can be removed easily for maintenance....everything else feels either heavy or flexy.
So far we are stuck with ISIS and SquareTaper(JIS)...both heavy outdated interfaces that don't like to be assembled/dissasembled often.
I really hope to see some modern technology available to make these mid drive cranks work even better.

 

[tangentdave]

Moving the freewheel from the crank arm onto the spindle is how things should be:


This Hashtagg crankset is close to what we want, now if we can get the flanged freewheel with splines to match the spindle...


-dave

 

[Miles]

http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/01/14/119081/
Interesting stuff.

The component of most interest, to me, is the fixed rear cassette hub...

 

[Hillhater]

Moving the freewheel from the crank arm onto the spindle is how things should be:


This Hashtagg crankset is close to what we want, now if we can get the flanged freewheel with splines to match the spindle...
-dave

Dave, I don't see that the Hashtag kit has any freewheel on the crank ?
..but that HR unit on Bike rumour does have a flanged freewheel on the spindle exactly as you want !

 

[tangentdave]

The freewheel is attached to the spindle, the splines are adjacent to the crank on the right in the pic. But ya, if the right side crank and the spindle were one piece that'd do the same thing- hold the freewheel/front sprockets more solidly.

 

[cheekybloke]

The freewheel is attached to the spindle, the splines are adjacent to the crank on the right in the pic. But ya, if the right side crank and the spindle were one piece that'd do the same thing- hold the freewheel/front sprockets more solidly.

Hi Dave i just checked out the Hashtagg cranks on tarty bikes.
The freewheel fits on the crank arm.
http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/cranks_pair/hashtagg_bb30_crankset_v20/c514p13030.html

 

[tangentdave]

Really? Looks like it's keyed to the spindle and the bashguard sits on the crank. Either way, this particular crankset prob won't work but I like the idea. A BB30 style bottom bracket with the freewheel transferring it's load to the spindle vice through the ISIS crank/spindle interface.

That HXR Easy Shift crankset looks like it could fit a chainring on either side of the spider. $450 euro for a crankset and it had better make me fly.

 

[Hillhater]

The Hashtag free wheel seems to be limited to an 18 T sprocket ?
Why would they do that on a BB/front chain ring ?
..The video on the Bikerumour site make the HxR assembly much more visible.

 

[Leebolectric]

^ because a rear 18t, combined with a front 18t, makes the most clearance for obstacles while Trials riding.
Enough teeth for quality engagement and give a 1:1 drive, perfect for low speed Trials, lifting the wheel moves.

Trials is not about speed...unless you're Danny Macaskill, Chris Akrigg or Ryan Leech.

https://vimeo.com/10695528

 

[Joe T.]

This is what I came up with when I built my bike. It is VERY nice to work on. I simply added a keyway on my 30mm spindle and mounted my chain ring on a one-way bearing. I'm sure some type of conventional freewheel could be used.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52793#p794720

 

[cheekybloke]

Really? Looks like it's keyed to the spindle and the bashguard sits on the crank. Either way, this particular crankset prob won't work but I like the idea. A BB30 style bottom bracket with the freewheel transferring it's load to the spindle vice through the ISIS crank/spindle interface.

That HXR Easy Shift crankset looks like it could fit a chainring on either side of the spider. $450 euro for a crankset and it had better make me fly.

My bad , it does go on the axle.
I suggested removing the freewheel from the rear wheel and having a live chain early last year to eliminate exploding pawls , now we get to see if it works.

 

[tangentdave]

Joe, that's a CSK30 one-way bearing? How's that working out? There's no side to side play when you squeeze the cranks onto the spindle? I've spent a few hours this weekend looking to replace the White flanged freewheel with CSK bearings, hadn't thought about a BB30 with the bearing keyed to the spindle. So simple. How much play is there in the CSK bearing itself- does it hold the spider/chainrings parallel to the frame well?

I have become very interested in Joe's solution. I wonder what BB30 spindles give us 15mm of extra spindle on the drive side for the width of the CSK30?

-dave

 

[Miles]

I don't think a CSK30 would be up to the task. Even a CSK35 is pushing it....

 

[Leebolectric]

Hell yeah JoeT, that's what I'm talking about!
Thats the next level tricky clicky radness.

 

[Hillhater]

^ because a rear 18t, combined with a front 18t, makes the most clearance for obstacles while Trials riding.
Enough teeth for quality engagement and give a 1:1 drive, perfect for low speed Trials, lifting the wheel moves.

Trials is not about speed...unless you're Danny Macaskill, Chris Akrigg or Ryan Leech.

https://vimeo.com/10695528

OK ...but not much use for a regular mid drive Ebike though ?
....unless they also make a flanged f/w unit as with the HxR .

 

[tangentdave]

These guys http://www.marland.com/Products-Sprag-CSK-Series-One-Way-Bearings.asp list the torque of their CSK30 and CSK35 as 133lbs and 177lbs. That's rated torque. Seems like they should be able to hold more, like the sprag clutch should be tougher.

How's that thing hold up Joe?

 

[Miles]

I know the torque ratings. Still a single ball race, though.....

The Elation drive had several failures using a CSK35 at the cranks.

 

[Joe T.]

These guys http://www.marland.com/Products-Sprag-CSK-Series-One-Way-Bearings.asp list the torque of their CSK30 and CSK35 as 133lbs and 177lbs. That's rated torque. Seems like they should be able to hold more, like the sprag clutch should be tougher.

How's that thing hold up Joe?

It is pretty good.

I just replaced the original CSK30 on my bike a few weeks ago. I had two years on it at the time. I detected some slipping when everything was new. But it wasn't all that bad. This year it began to slip bad enough to replace. Now it is good again. Over all with the electric assist I find I don't add all that much human power. All the motor power drives direct so the CSK30 is just a bearing at that point. I bought a CSK40 the same time I bought the replacement CSK30 thinking I may build a new chain ring setup using a larger bearing. The CSK40 will fit inside a 104mm bolt circle which is what I based my build on. I can make a spacer to make the 40mm bearing fit a 30mm shaft.

If you read through my build thread you will find that I stretched my spindle to make it wide enough for my bike. I now have a CAD file of a 30mm spindle so I will build my own from scratch for the bigger bearing.

I like it a lot. I don't know if I would recommend it to everybody because it is not 100% locked up under extreme pressure. When you need to hop over a rock you need to pull on the bars because you can't depend on the crank to lock solid at that pressure. But I have two years and counting and will likely keep the same setup in the future. I can get both chains on the gears and then slide the "unit" on the spindle and be done quickly.
For me I like things I can build in my shop. With this deal I can fabricate the parts that will accept an off the shelf bearing. Also I use no second bearing for the chain ring. The crank squeezes the bearing in place and it has no where to go. Even though my bike is hand built it takes mostly off the shelf parts like the spindle bearings and chain rings.

 

[Miles]

Now they're available, I don't think I'd use anything other than this, : http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=226

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25153
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=21248
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47618

 

[Leebolectric]

That's what I'm running now, really impressed.
Super stiff, same exact chainline, extra bearings...and NO extra drag, stoked!

But ISIS/JIS is unnecessarily heavy, tiny bearings, etc...seems like a great place for refinement.

 

[Joe T.]

I like it a lot. I don't know if I would recommend it to everybody because it is not 100% locked up under extreme pressure. When you need to hop over a rock you need to pull on the bars because you can't depend on the crank to lock solid at that pressure. But I have two years and counting and will likely keep the same setup in the future. I can get both chains on the gears and then slide the "unit" on the spindle and be done quickly.

Just an update on the CSK30 freewheel on my bike. I replaced the original with a new one. My first one may have flawed from the start. The new one seems to be locked up 100%. I have not detected and slippage whatsoever.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I think any available CSK freewheel would work great for the BB of a crossbreak style driveline. No clicking from the pawls, and only sees the power of the legs.