New GNG Mid Drive Brushless 60V650W
- Thread starter ahlidap
- Start date
lantice13
100 W
I came out with something similar since the that tensioner keep popping off. didn't use the extra spacer and hardware though... I got it adjusted where it's not popping off with load. I'm gonna replace that thing with a chain roller later on. http://www.ebay.com/itm/121429661080?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
spinningmagnets said:
i'm respond to this post because .. well i just saw it... this is very strange, i never saw it earlier, as a moderator do you the ability to insert messages in a middle of a thread?
second, i didn't even KNOW there's a block possibility, had i known , i might have guessed it was used.
now let's address the L-R situation
1. my requirements were simple, a 1500-2000 mid drive with 50-60 kph and good acceleration, be more efficient that my current drive, and not burn out custom parts. by all parameters the kit did fit the bill, so why wasn't it "right" for me? complexity in installation? how do you measure that until it's too late? would L-R need to give "exams" for new customers? what will happen if another one runs into problems and exceeds the "limit"?
2. yep i did write a lot of posts, was any of them berating? insulting? hurtful? did i say at any point the kit was bad? not to my memory, what i did do , is to be the first one to try out if the thun sensor work on this kit, i distinctly recall that both l-r and others were waiting to see the results, , i didn't say there was something wrong with the kit when it didn't fit,i was just disappointed , and moved on . i also always defended l-r when he run into production problems when i waited for my kit for 6 months, even when it reached a point where some folks were starting too wonder if this was a scam, i was one of the people who said this was due to "first time" production line problems, i knew l-r didn't test his kit, but i still pressed on, because i believed in it.
every time l-r posted news about advancement i would quickly like it, share it on my facebook page, an e-bike group i was member in, and would encouraged others to do the same, just to spread the word as much as possible, the same with your article.
when i run into problem installing the bb , i again didn't blame the kit, but L-R called it the "emaayan effect" thinking i wasn't installing it right, when it turned out there wasn't enough threads in the bb shell to begin with (because i had a custom frame) i resolved that problem as well. but l-r seems to think that everything i post "damages his fledging business" as he put it. would you buy something from someone who says "sure, i'll sell you, so long as you don't post anything i think is bad or too much of anything"
should i be afraid every time i ask or post something?
3. regarding the twist, i would jump at the chance to label any problem i encounter or would encounter as my own private case, rather then a problem with the kit, because that would mean it had a solution or a fix, actually i was surprised to see those problem occur in the first place, because my original assumptions was those sheets were out there already before the entire kit, so they must have worked so far (it's was only the kit that was published entirely recently) , but , when i saw other posts with the same issue where the lower sheets would slide back now matter how much you tighten the bolts, where others like jdevo experienced the torsion problem, even a computer stress analysts was published on the model, and when L-R finally released thicker sheets with bigger bolts, then i had to conclude this was a problem with the kit, so maybe i didn't run at high power as the others, maybe it was weight or the bike. but it WAS a design flaw. it might have not turned out on all use cases, but it did turn out on some cases other them my own. which weren't due to installation problems.
but even then, i said "ok, so there was a bug in the design, it can happen, i'm willing to PAY for more parts and better ones" didn't make much of an issue from it. which i was pretty sure clarified how much i believed in the product.
people are coming to get l-r kit from all over the place, can you be sure that it's "right" for each and every one of them? like i said before on the "beast" thread , when matt from astro kit warned me that his kit is not "bolt "on i detailed all my experience with ecospeed and the motor fixes i did, he seemed rather at ease saying i'm able to handle his kit, naturally he seemed much less sure about it, months later. which just goes to show you, you can never be certain, the person you are selling will get it right the first time, so what's the solution? block them if they write you too much and refuse to support them after they paid you? i'm pretty sure most people at this point will not be so poised like i was. so may be they wont' post 500, may you'll get 3 people posting 50 times?
and l-r calling me a boy, posting fatal attraction meme's? while the rest are laughing and calling me creepy? , yea, that's a really mature way to handle it. it also borderlines on cyber bullying.
and it would take one or two to start raising hell. but i guess i'm easy target.
i don't know what jon is like, i get the impression, he's very focused, concise, and probably doesn't care at all at what anyone writes about him in any forum, he just sells stuff. he only answers questions which have clear an precises answers. ignores everything else, i get that. it's understandable.
regarding the gng, i did manage to install it however ,lantice13 , i run into problems regarding the bb. this time it's not a threading problem (trek 7.7 all threads are there), but to my knowledge the bb installs when detachable cup is on the left side (left side when you face the bike from behind) , however that placed the longer side of the shaft on the left as well, which didn't make much sense as this is the side is where the crank and pedal are running through. i also see the same here with sick bike parts http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=107&osCsid=c6aqgh158i1m8fsnsost9mv4f7 bb, my machinist said you can't screw the bb from the other side, (from right to left, as the threading on the bb won't match the shell). so what gives?
i disabled the tensioner as it seemed to actually be causing the chain to drop, i ordered something similar to lantice (as the shop he pointed out wouldn't ship to israel) http://www.ebay.com/itm/391093848717 i'll see how it works.
[youtube]pPs_IOHzUD0[/youtube]
lantice13
100 W
mine was installed just fine and no problem with the bb threading. the cup that got that lock ring goes on the left side/ non chain ring side of the bb. same with all gng kits I have. Don't know why you'r having so much issues getting this thing installed properly...
lantice13
100 W
both cups can be removed though.... at least mine. just swap them around? if you still have problems with clearance you can always get a wider spindled square tapered BB. http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=114&osCsid=s2e8nof34hd4n3fsvduqg0nev6
Attachments
r3volved
100 kW
The longer shaft is on your chain wheel side
r3volved said:
YES ,THANK YOU!, finally some logic and sense,
so either turning the caps or re-shifting would have been the solution i would guess, but still the bb on sick bike parts seems to be exactly the same layout, and it's longer side also seems to reside on the removable cup side. anyway i finally completed the installation, it would seem, however because i disabled the chain tensioner i don't it would last long, if re-enable it, the wobbling effect under load would quickly make it drop. i'm curious to see if lantice would experience the same thing when it will try to use under load.
as you can see the chainline is aligned (or so it would seem)
[youtube]RVkSMAM6iTA[/youtube]
ok, new plan, there's nothing really wrong in using the 104 bcd spider from sickbike parts right? cause that would give the chance to use http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-10...e-single-chainring-3-32-inch-black-prod11054/ and that thing is HARD! it would get to play with different teeth sizes.
however this would mean i would have to replace the connow bb to 148 mm isis one .(as the crankset won't go that deep)
P.S: if anyone had a bet on how long it would take me to brake stuff, i want my commission, thank you very much.
however this would mean i would have to replace the connow bb to 148 mm isis one .(as the crankset won't go that deep)
P.S: if anyone had a bet on how long it would take me to brake stuff, i want my commission, thank you very much.
well, after ordering a 4 bcd 104 mm spider, and several thorn, chainrings, i remembered i had a 5 bcd spider 110mm (from the time i thought about building a replacement for ecospeed crankset, just in case), digging up used old 38T and 40T thorn chainrings i used for ecospeed, (i keep EVERYTHING, sometimes it's comes in handy when 70% of the your house is parts ), fought to free the ISIS crank arm from L-R's crankset, used the isis bb for the l-r kit, i managed to come up with thing.
but i did have to place 2 spacers in the crank arm, otherwise the chainline wouldn't to the driven sprocket wouldn't fit.
as you can see no wobble, but the tensioner, did pop. so i'm hoping lantice's solution would do it. but so far, when i used it , the chain on never dropped.
initial riding showed promise, i managed to get 53 kph at 1500 watts (it's like magic speed number, i don't get it, same with ecospeed even though different wattage, different gears)
if anyone's interested i'm using grins' auto sensor controller http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c3635-nc.html, i only had to switch between blue and green phase wires so it would run CCW , since it is also connected to the hall sensors, i'm assuming it's operating on auto sensing mode, as opposed to un-sensored (it's a pity you can't tell the difference, but then again, if rain gets through, and messes up the sensors, i'll never notice) .
i did tore the chain (the bicycle side) but it might be due to it's position, (i'm not sure if i should use 2nd gear, 1st probably not) so tommorow i'll be getting a new one, (10 speed) i forgot about all this after i switched to alfine. i may add more spacers so i would use the first gears.
personally i think you should get rid, of the connow and crank set deal your'e getting, from what i've been reading, the shaft usually wobbles, which will cause chain drops, the crank is 64 bcd, and i have no idea where this 42t chainring (the outer one that go bent) came from, cause the maximum bcd chainring i see on the market is 30, maybe 32, so you're restricted in both quality and diversity if use 64 bcd.
[youtube]pql9Qn5iNYo[/youtube]
but i did have to place 2 spacers in the crank arm, otherwise the chainline wouldn't to the driven sprocket wouldn't fit.
as you can see no wobble, but the tensioner, did pop. so i'm hoping lantice's solution would do it. but so far, when i used it , the chain on never dropped.
initial riding showed promise, i managed to get 53 kph at 1500 watts (it's like magic speed number, i don't get it, same with ecospeed even though different wattage, different gears)
if anyone's interested i'm using grins' auto sensor controller http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c3635-nc.html, i only had to switch between blue and green phase wires so it would run CCW , since it is also connected to the hall sensors, i'm assuming it's operating on auto sensing mode, as opposed to un-sensored (it's a pity you can't tell the difference, but then again, if rain gets through, and messes up the sensors, i'll never notice) .
i did tore the chain (the bicycle side) but it might be due to it's position, (i'm not sure if i should use 2nd gear, 1st probably not) so tommorow i'll be getting a new one, (10 speed) i forgot about all this after i switched to alfine. i may add more spacers so i would use the first gears.
personally i think you should get rid, of the connow and crank set deal your'e getting, from what i've been reading, the shaft usually wobbles, which will cause chain drops, the crank is 64 bcd, and i have no idea where this 42t chainring (the outer one that go bent) came from, cause the maximum bcd chainring i see on the market is 30, maybe 32, so you're restricted in both quality and diversity if use 64 bcd.
[youtube]pql9Qn5iNYo[/youtube]
update
the popping tensioner problem seems to be resolved by placing a thin washer behind the arm, this reduced the amount of free motion.
so far the kit is performing well, it's usage is around 20AH, while still being able to reach 50 kph.
i recommend you dump the crank set and bb you're getting from gng , and make up your own using these parts, (while i'm currently using 110 bcd, it should be the same) not only will it eliminate the bobbing which may cause chain dropped (which stopped almost entirely once i started using it) but you'll have much more room to parts and ratios.
while the crank bolts that come with gng will do, you may need some washers and female crank bolts, (this is because the gng male crank bolts originally thread in to gng crank itself) however those can be found at any bike store
the total including 2 chainrings should amount to around 160$,so the kit should now cost around 500$, (but it still comes with a controller, so maybe you should subtract 50$ for that) (i've excluded shipping cost)
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=190
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=163
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=192
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=178
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-104mm-bcd-4-arm-reversible-single-chainring-3-32-inch-black-prod11054/
[youtube]wWERHlCTB3w[/youtube]
one additional option i havn't considered is using these http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=197 instead of a spider, but that's just a thought. never tried it.
will report more findings or problem if i run into them.
the popping tensioner problem seems to be resolved by placing a thin washer behind the arm, this reduced the amount of free motion.
so far the kit is performing well, it's usage is around 20AH, while still being able to reach 50 kph.
i recommend you dump the crank set and bb you're getting from gng , and make up your own using these parts, (while i'm currently using 110 bcd, it should be the same) not only will it eliminate the bobbing which may cause chain dropped (which stopped almost entirely once i started using it) but you'll have much more room to parts and ratios.
while the crank bolts that come with gng will do, you may need some washers and female crank bolts, (this is because the gng male crank bolts originally thread in to gng crank itself) however those can be found at any bike store
the total including 2 chainrings should amount to around 160$,so the kit should now cost around 500$, (but it still comes with a controller, so maybe you should subtract 50$ for that) (i've excluded shipping cost)
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=190
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=163
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=192
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=178
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-104mm-bcd-4-arm-reversible-single-chainring-3-32-inch-black-prod11054/
[youtube]wWERHlCTB3w[/youtube]
one additional option i havn't considered is using these http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=197 instead of a spider, but that's just a thought. never tried it.
will report more findings or problem if i run into them.
skyungjae
10 kW
emaayan said:
That's normal.
thanks, i got myself this thing :http://www.ebay.com/itm/190950288808?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT just in case, it has more material, so i think it would have less chance of bending. but i'll keep at bay just in case,
i'm currently waiting for my 4 arm spider so i'll have more options to place chainrings, i'm currently expiriencing many chaindrops and i can't seem determine if it's the screwed chainline, the chain tensioner, incorrect chain tension because not having enough chain length. so in a true emaayan style, i've decided to attack all of the problems "just in case"
i'm having my machinist prep me a another tensioner arm, so i could assemble a bash guard tensioner on it ,i'll place the chainring behind the spider, so it would have a better chainline, i'll place a chainguard infront of spider, so less chances of chain drops. on the side (i might even have my machinist create me another guard on the other side,but i'll see about that)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...1lBv_JE/w764-h1019-no/IMG_20150420_001445.jpg
i'm currently waiting for my 4 arm spider so i'll have more options to place chainrings, i'm currently expiriencing many chaindrops and i can't seem determine if it's the screwed chainline, the chain tensioner, incorrect chain tension because not having enough chain length. so in a true emaayan style, i've decided to attack all of the problems "just in case"
i'm having my machinist prep me a another tensioner arm, so i could assemble a bash guard tensioner on it ,i'll place the chainring behind the spider, so it would have a better chainline, i'll place a chainguard infront of spider, so less chances of chain drops. on the side (i might even have my machinist create me another guard on the other side,but i'll see about that)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...1lBv_JE/w764-h1019-no/IMG_20150420_001445.jpg
adriftatsea
100 W
My 60V kit arrived today - but the left side inner crank gear runs against my rear triangle (hardtail Specialized Hardrock).
Can I press the bottom bracket's spindle to gain some clearance - or should I break out the grinder? Jumping up and down on the frame didn't help any. It 'self clearances' after a few dozen turns of the crank (except where the crank is bent slightly). <.5mm of clearance.
Overall the kit is of pretty poor quality (as expected). I guess I'll be purchasing a load of stuff from LightningRods here shortly
Can I press the bottom bracket's spindle to gain some clearance - or should I break out the grinder? Jumping up and down on the frame didn't help any. It 'self clearances' after a few dozen turns of the crank (except where the crank is bent slightly). <.5mm of clearance.
Overall the kit is of pretty poor quality (as expected). I guess I'll be purchasing a load of stuff from LightningRods here shortly
lantice13
100 W
bending the tensioner swing arm is what ultimately solved the 2nd reduction chain tensioner alignment issue for my kit. everything is stock. the final drive chain will only drop if you change gear too quick specially on down shifts. pretty much the same way on a pedal only bike. this kit is slow as molasses at 48v-51v and the controller peaks at 1.1kw around 21ish amps. top speed is 29mph on the flat 11-14mph up hill usually on the granny gear to avoid chain skips on the final drive. 220lbs rider and no head wind on a 26er mt bike. cadence is really fast so there is no helping the motor at WOT. cant even help it up hill since I can't keep up with the cadence. for some reason my 10T MAC motor at the same battery packs and wattage is faster climbing the same hill. also the controller seems to hit LVC pretty early. around 43v from the looks of it. getting a 48v Kelly controller pretty soon to replace that 60V controller. on another note, freaking motor barley get warm at 1.1kw cont. doing a long hill climb towing a trailer.
Attachments
lantice13
100 W
You sure you got the BB on right? one side should be longer than the other. you can just swap around the bearing cups so that you can have the longer side of the spindle where the crankset is. mine does have some run out but not that extreme to actually rub against the chainstay or the downtube of my bike. I agree the freewheeling crankset they include with the kit is pretty low quality. treat them as a freebee. the rest of the hardware seems pretty solid though no noticable flexing on initial torque from stall.adriftatsea said:My 60V kit arrived today - but the left side inner crank gear runs against my rear triangle (hardtail Specialized Hardrock).
Can I press the bottom bracket's spindle to gain some clearance - or should I break out the grinder? Jumping up and down on the frame didn't help any. It 'self clearances' after a few dozen turns of the crank (except where the crank is bent slightly). <.5mm of clearance.
Overall the kit is of pretty poor quality (as expected). I guess I'll be purchasing a load of stuff from LightningRods here shortly
adriftatsea
100 W
lantice13 said:
I did the same. It's good to know that works versus mucking about with the larger bolt/spacer that the kit came with. Also my tensioner sprocket is black (not red like in the other kits)...but it still is really thin and doesn't mesh well.
lantice13 said:
Ok, thanks. I couldn't infer that from the animated gif 'instructions' on the GNG site
. I'll pull the crankset off one last time and double check. I ended up taking a 'BFH' to the frame and now there's some daylight between them.
Lastly, I went ahead and pulled off the front derailleur since there's only one front gear now. I read somewhere that it may help with keeping the chain aligned...should I put it back on?
lantice13
100 W
really dont know if it will help since my derailment usually happens under the chain ring when the chain kinda whips around when shifting too abruptly. the chainring also got some runout so I think the front derailleur will just rub on the chain. but since it's there why not try it. my solution to this problem is proper shifting techniques. throttle down, shift then throttle up. to down shift same thing. I experimented with 3 different kinds of middrive all GNG's and this is technique works pretty well on all of them. it's a bicycle drivetrain after all.adriftatsea said:
adriftatsea ,loose the entire crank drive, i got the same problem with not enough room for the crank to even fit. what's worse those chaingrings are pretty soft and hard to replace. get yourself an isis freewheeling crank set from sickbikeparts. it's chain rings will be alot easier to replace and harder to bend
you could always play around the chain line later i almost got it to work .
i don't think any l-r's custom part will work here, the lower and upper sheets are part of the motor's case, plus the jackshaft is different and anything he can offer are off the shelf pars.
i believe the problem with the tensioner and drops is 2 folds, the first is accuracy, the arm itself it just loose enough to cause problems to wobble around. and the crank itself can wobble (yes with an isis) if it wobbles too much the tensioner pops off and causes chain drops. this is why i don't want to do anything to tensioner arm itself, it's too precise i'd much rather have a slightly thicker arm, and a bash guard pulley to hold the chain, so i don't have to worry about it.
i never really used the original controller. i first got myself grin's controller, because of its' auto sensors , as i didn't want to mess around with mapping, but it was only 1500 watts, so i got myself em3ev's 12 FET controller, and SURPRISE the hall and phases actually match colors (still can't believe it so don't trust me) , just replace the ring crimps with either Anderson or bullets and you're set. i still didn't have a chance to actually test it on the field. because of the chain drops, (did test on 1500)
i also pulled of the front derailleur because i have a 10 gear cassette, eventually it will touch it and drop.
i got around 50 kph around with 1500w , part of the reason i got 2000w is because i heard you can go faster on that wattage. i'm not looking high speeds, 60 kph would be great. i'm 250 lbs rider, but hey i got this thing first for power and efficiency.
the only thing i'm currently really worried about is the wear on the driver sprocket on the motor, still waiting for a brave sole to check if it can be removed easily, as i see no spare parts for it, nor do i see a way to remove it myself. if that goes the entire motor goes.
if this works out and holds i might get just another kit, to experiment with pressing out the driver sprocket, and may created another shaft (i don't know how this one comes off) that will be able to hold a standard freewheel an acs 13t.
you could always play around the chain line later i almost got it to work .
i don't think any l-r's custom part will work here, the lower and upper sheets are part of the motor's case, plus the jackshaft is different and anything he can offer are off the shelf pars.
i believe the problem with the tensioner and drops is 2 folds, the first is accuracy, the arm itself it just loose enough to cause problems to wobble around. and the crank itself can wobble (yes with an isis) if it wobbles too much the tensioner pops off and causes chain drops. this is why i don't want to do anything to tensioner arm itself, it's too precise i'd much rather have a slightly thicker arm, and a bash guard pulley to hold the chain, so i don't have to worry about it.
i never really used the original controller. i first got myself grin's controller, because of its' auto sensors , as i didn't want to mess around with mapping, but it was only 1500 watts, so i got myself em3ev's 12 FET controller, and SURPRISE the hall and phases actually match colors (still can't believe it so don't trust me) , just replace the ring crimps with either Anderson or bullets and you're set. i still didn't have a chance to actually test it on the field. because of the chain drops, (did test on 1500)
i also pulled of the front derailleur because i have a 10 gear cassette, eventually it will touch it and drop.
i got around 50 kph around with 1500w , part of the reason i got 2000w is because i heard you can go faster on that wattage. i'm not looking high speeds, 60 kph would be great. i'm 250 lbs rider, but hey i got this thing first for power and efficiency.
the only thing i'm currently really worried about is the wear on the driver sprocket on the motor, still waiting for a brave sole to check if it can be removed easily, as i see no spare parts for it, nor do i see a way to remove it myself. if that goes the entire motor goes.
if this works out and holds i might get just another kit, to experiment with pressing out the driver sprocket, and may created another shaft (i don't know how this one comes off) that will be able to hold a standard freewheel an acs 13t.
lantice13
100 W
I manage to get the whole thing running reliably stock with just minor adjustments. and yes even with the crappy freewheeling crankset . this bike is in the daily commuter bike rotation since I do trust it now after completing several long range tests, hill climb towing test without a hitch on the drive system. now I'm on the 2nd phase of testing.... the long term usage test. It passed the 6 week mark already so I'm starting to think that this might be the real deal now. if it survive till Interbike 2015, that would be great since I'm planning on bringing this bike this year. I'm sure several people here and at ESFB are gonna be there like last year.
lantice13 said:I manage to get the whole thing running reliably stock with just minor adjustments. and yes even with the crappy freewheeling crankset . this bike is in the daily commuter bike rotation since I do trust it now after completing several long range tests, hill climb towing test without a hitch on the drive system. now I'm on the 2nd phase of testing.... the long term usage test. It passed the 6 week mark already so I'm starting to think that this might be the real deal now. if it survive till Interbike 2015, that would be great since I'm planning on bringing this bike this year. I'm sure several people here and at ESFB are gonna be there like last year.
just remember that chainrings are wearable parts, a few weeks after i asked. jon got backed to me about the chainring i bent, it's about 22$. but these can't be obtained anywhere else. it's a 42T 64 bcd. i suspect if you fall or slip with it on a rock, it might not survive.
maybe it's because i plan to run it at 2000w instead 700w.
don't forget the freehwheels in crank are also candidates to massive wear because of the angular pressure they are under. this is why sickbikeparts will be coming out with a double bearing version.
or it could be that i have neck for breaking stuff and love to have reserve of like.. everything .
Similar threads
