New GNG Mid Drive Brushless 60V650W

[crossbreak]

Bzhwindtalker was able to get 4.5kW out of the motor, but he took it apart and doubled up the phase wires.

Really? you mean output power? that must be ~7kW input power? and about 2.5kW loss I thought this one must melt within minutes!?! On which dyno was this awesome power measured and how long continuously? Even more interestin, at which rpm band? such an output power seems impossible for me :?

 

[crossbreak]

Can you guys lift off wheel and give full throttle and see wattage?

my converted Bafang 24V SWXB does 1.8amps@46V, that is 83Watts in first gear and ~2.1amps in highest gear (that is 550rpm or 67kph). Got crappy $20 disc brakes that slip a bit.

Figures for the converted BPM will follow soon, didn't measure this one yet

 

[flyinmonkie]

by flyinmonkie » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:21 am

If done right, chain is not noisy. You need to stay away from small sprockets and get it aligned well.

Why would you say that when Christerjung has just done a high voltage GNG chain drive and it is noisy as an RC motor, maybe even more then a cyclone as RC motors were know to be noisier .

Re: New freeride project - LMX P1

by bzhwindtalker » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:50 am

the Stock GNG is quite silent but the combinaison of 100v and #25 chain mod makes it sound like most RC drives.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47054&start=150

I say that because I run 50v through my cyclone with #25 chain and at any speed I can not hear chain noise. It is perfectly aligned, the sprockets are not tiny, and the chain is kept lubed. That prevents chain noise. If you go to smaller than, I think, 9 or 10 tooth then chain gets loud. With lager sprockets, chain makes little noise. Also, this GNG is meant to be run at 60v, that is a long way from Chister's 100v. Of course an electric motor is going to scream when run so over volted, as Christer has. Good on him for pushing the limits and seeing what this little motor is capable of.

Until you have ridden a bike with a proper chain set up and heard it first hand, then you can't say it's loud. I would say there is more motor whine than chain noise in any well set up chain reduction. If you want the "silent" drive, then a small assist either hub or non-hub may be the way to go. I would venture to say, the bigger the motor (physical size) and the slower you can run it, the deeper the sound as well as the less noise.

Clay

 

[AussieJester]

Until you have ridden a bike with a proper chain set up and heard it first hand, then you can't say it's loud. I would say there is more motor whine than chain noise in any well set up chain reduction.

Clay

ditto... i have ridden with geared MaCs that make as much noise as my setup
up to their top speed, the rc motors definitely make a nice turbine sound when at full noise
ride them at speed limit they are very quiet, well my Turnigy CA120 is, just ticks over at 50km/hr
chain noise if you have everything aligned and lubed and not running ridiculously small
sprockets and pointless idlers is negligible...

KiM

 

[arcticfly]

Any idea if the LR sheets fits this new kit?

 

[speedmd]

Motor looks identical as well as the jack assembly. Should fit perfect.

 

[arcticfly]

So If I buy this with the LR sheets, what else do I have to change/buy to get this reliable? aiming at 2000W. Assuming the chain is holding up of course

 

[skyungjae]

Bzhwindtalker was able to get 4.5kW out of the motor, but he took it apart and doubled up the phase wires.

Really? you mean output power? that must be ~7kW input power? and about 2.5kW loss I thought this one must melt within minutes!?! On which dyno was this awesome power measured and how long continuously? Even more interestin, at which rpm band? such an output power seems impossible for me :?

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44623&start=100#p708486

 

[speedmd]

So If I buy this with the LR sheets, what else do I have to change/buy to get this reliable? aiming at 2000W. Assuming the chain is holding up of course

Mine has stock electronics (with a bit of solder on the shunt) and with 12s lipo it calculates out to about 1700 watts based on the actual speed and the speed calculator. At 15s it would be 2125 watts roughly and at 14s roughly 2000 watts. With the gearing I have it should easily top 40mph consistently with 15s.

 

[dan974]

any test yet with it ? is it 68 or 73 mm BB plz ?

 

[speedmd]

I have the gng 1 with the chain mod running 12s. 73mm bb spindle and had to add a bit of a spacer under the left side cup to be able to catch some threads with the lock ring.

 

[crossbreak]

spacer that you need is 16mm in dia btw.

found this shop for longer motors, 100 or 160€ :? : http://e-bike-diffusion.com/index.php?module=produit&prd_id=501&url_retour=http%253A%252F%252Fe-bike-diffusion.com%253A80%252Findex.php%253Fmodule%253Dcategorie%2526code_cat%253D2610%2526page_start_num%253D1

Guess this one runs ~3000rpm@60V so 2-stage is needed or large 8:1 single. It comes with an 8T sprocket So 8:1 is done with a 64T wheel sprocket :lol:
Maybe 12T /95T will do the job. 95T #25 is still smaller than a 52T bicycle sprocket, so that may not be the big issue.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44623&start=100#p708486

THX!

 

[speedmd]

Hi Crossbreak

I have two motors and controllers coming, similar case as the one you linked, only with 48v 1000 watt internals.

I plan on running one 18s lipo on my next build. It will be interesting fitting it into a normal width bb FS mountain bike I have ready. Thinking also of possibly going direct to the rear wheel with a simple two speed jack shaft setup.

The other I am hoping to sandwich into the cdale if there is any way to do it without destroying the kit.

 

[crossbreak]

The other I am hoping to sandwich into the cdale if there is any way to do it without destroying the kit.

do you want to go through the gears or wheel drive? As we discussed in the other thread, it makes more sense to use these with multiple gears, due the thick lams/narrow high power rpm band. Make sure you stay within chain specs

 

[speedmd]

First choice is to go through the bike chain / gear system. Will see if i can get it to fit and line up. At 48 volts 12s that should not be too much a issue if I limit amps. At 18s, I am starting to get a bit concerned. Working on thinner laminations, and core designs now but not finding any good share programs to model. A interesting project for certain.

 

[crossbreak]

before you can make decisions about gearing/voltage, you should measure KV of your motor.

There is also a smaller version which is 100mm dia and 84mm wide. Should be possible to fit this one to the BB.
http://hk109785744.fm.alibaba.com/product/145028092-101562868/BLDC_BRUSHLESS_DC_MOTOR_24_36V_500W.html

 

[speedmd]

KV is the same. I am assuming I will not be able to keep up with it going to 18s or need to pedal 140 rpms unless I change the reduction. :lol: No problem for a minute or two, but 90 rpm is a good speed for me.

I like the crank you use for higher speeds. If I could find a suitable three speed I could by pass the bike gears and go direct to rear. Two speeds may do it. Thin laminations and two speeds definitely but will require a large buy of customised motors. Who's in.

cheers

 

[crossbreak]

Ok, than you can simply calc with a loaded KV ~50. @45 that's 2250rpm, so you need a reduction of 25 to the cranks. When using 48T chainring and 13T freewheel, you need an additional 6.8 Jackshaft reduction, like 13T motorsprocket and 90T Jackshaft sprocket. That's huge Maybe you should consider something like this http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46813&start=50#p699996

You should really make a new topic..

 

[speedmd]

Hi Crossbreak

No need to do the math. We have been through this once and it worked out very well with 12s running the 12/72 primary and the 13/56 secondary. I can not improve on the ratio matching. Will do and to start a new thread when the stuff gets in and I start the build.

On the new GNG 60V chain kit, I don't think it will be a good match for pedaling along at all. Off the line may be, but once it gets rolling it will most likely be all motor at 14s or 15s and the stock ratios.

 

[crossbreak]

guess 10s+50amps limit is perfect for the new chain drive GNG ... start a new thread now, this has nothing to do with GNG anymore

 

[justlooking]

subscribed

 

[Wishes]

I did the lazy thing and just bought the new 60 volt version. I'll upgrade to chain my old gng kit over the winter and install it on a second bike.

I did a straight swap out of my old kit for the new one.

On the first run, the first thing I notice is the noise level. I have not played with the primary reduction yet. I don't know if it is just the tensioner that is making so much noise, but its really loud.

The second thing I noticed, was a huge increase in my top end that I don't need, and a huge reduction in torque. The ratios have changed significantly.

I was running stock ratios on the original gng. I mean that I did not change the large pulley on the primary or the sprocket size on the secondary. I did change my chainrings, I am running a 44T to the back wheel and a 48T to the secondary reduction. Cadence was never important.

There is not much room between the 2 sprockets of the primary reduction. I don't see how i can really increase the size of the large sprocket on the primary. And reducing the small sprocket......I don't want to reduce the amount of surface engaged. I'm going to have to change my chainrings to compensate.
From what I can tell it looks like a 11 tooth on the motor and 55 or 54 teeth on the large sprocket? Wasn't the old pulley's 11-80? That would explain the huge difference in my ratios.

Wishes

 

[spinningmagnets]

Wishes, the chain looks like it might be #35. Could you do me a favor and count off ten pins, then measure the distance between them? Inches or mm, either would be fine...

 

[justlooking]

so its got a reduction of 5.0:1, but if a 13tooth will fit then it will have a better reduction of about 4.29:1

 

[Wishes]

Wishes, the chain looks like it might be #35. Could you do me a favor and count off ten pins, then measure the distance between them? Inches or mm, either would be fine...

70mm betweeen 10 pins.

Wishes