NEW Makita BL1840 / BL1850 with the 2 and 2.5Ah cells !

[Doctorbass]

Makita recently released their new BL1840 18V 4Ah Lithium battery wich contain 10 of the 2Ah 18650 cells.same exact shape and weight as the previous knownBL1830 model with the 1.5Ah cells.

the pack is rated 72Wh compare to the previous 54Wh BL1830.

Not sure yet wich 18650 cells are these using and not sure if they are the Konion familly.

Please feel free to post any update if you find some!


[youtube]PhdtJky3BPo[/youtube]

Doc

 

[cwah]

Doc, are you going to sell them?

 

[Doctorbass]

Doc, are you going to sell them?

Once they become availlable as deffective or/and used, i will for sure! :wink:

But since tthey just has been released recently this shold take few months or even years.


Doc

 

[migueralliart]

Doc they are either;

SAMSUNG 20R's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HID-Battery-Samsung-20A-18650-20R-INR18650-20R-2000mah-3-6V-Li-ion-Rechargeable-/321080176476?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item4ac1deaf5c

or

SANYO EX series
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sanyo-3-6V-20A-2-0Ah-UR18650EX-UR-18650-EX-eBike-EV-Power-Battery-Lithium-Li-ion-/221204782722?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3380d51e82


The only high discharge 18650 cells that I know of that have 2.0AH capacity

 

[Teh Stork]

I guess they are US18650V3 or similar. Sony konion 2150mAh spinel stuff - 10A rated.

 

[savaoaknyc]

Hei,
if they are made by sony, than it should be the us18650vtc4-2000mah.Here the datasheet in the atteched pdf.
Guess a real alternative to the Lipo-rc cells.But when making a pack you have to look at the discharged rates and the rise of the temperature when the cell is discharged at more than 4c.

Greets Sava

 

[etriker]

Sweet

 

[Doctorbass]

Thanks savaoaknyc for posting that.

I believe that Makita will stay with Sony so the probabylity that they are using that cell is pretty high. Once i put my hand on one of these i will review it as well.


These cells are really promissing.

Every spec measured at temp below 50 celsius are the one to consider. the rest of over 50 celsius mena that teh celsl degrade too fast. LiMn spinel chemistry is pretty sensitive above 50 celsus.

it does have a Ri of only 12 miliohm!! wow.. that's close to the A123 M1 cell wich is 10 miliohm but for 2.3Ah and the 1/miliohm per Ah is pretty equal


Doc

 

[mistercrash]

Looks like these Sony 18650 cells (if they are indeed Sony cells in those packs) will still be the cheapest way for me to get a dependable battery that also performs well. I'm going to have to get myself a ventilation system for the workshop to stop inhaling to much solder fumes. Keep us updated Doc on when you get the first batch

 

[Pat Eaton]

Ditto on the solder fumes

 

[savaoaknyc]

Hi Doc,

these are available in Germany for around 5,5 euro the piece,(just search in google.de and you will find some shops) soon i'll have my icharger duo and i'm gonna test them too.There is actually another battery coming to the market made by Samsung .It is similiar to sony, but with 2500mah.So i'll keep eyes on it too, one its out ill buy 4 just to test it.

Greets Sava.

 

[mistercrash]

Salut Doc,

So is there any chance of getting these before Spring you think? I'm thinking of building a 24S20P using these cells but use a different method then my last two packs.

 

[Doctorbass]

Salut Doc,

So is there any chance of getting these before Spring you think? I'm thinking of building a 24S20P using these cells but use a different method then my last two packs.

Ishh.. Porbably not until one or two years i would say.

Theser are not sold yet in Canada officially so before i get some deffective that might take few month or even years.

Doc

 

[Hillhater]

I believe that Makita will stay with Sony .....
Doc

I would not automatically assume Makita would stick with Sony just because they used them previously.
Any financially prudent business would take multiple bids from suppliers against their required spec and chose on a cost/quality/ etc/etc basis. A competitive supply strategy.
It is also sensible to have more than one supplier for any one key component bought in.
Even Tesla doesnt just use panasonic, they have multiple sources.

 

[grindz145]

Also, you might not find them in the used market, if they fixed their BMS issue...

 

[liveforphysics]

Even Tesla doesnt just use panasonic, they have multiple sources.

Do you have a source for this? Tesla certainly has a topology that lends itself towards using any suitable 18650, however I don't believe they have ever sold a car that didn't feature Panasonic cells.

 

[grindz145]

Even Tesla doesnt just use panasonic, they have multiple sources.

Do you have a source for this? Tesla certainly has a topology that lends itself towards using any suitable 18650, however I don't believe they have ever sold a car that didn't feature Panasonic cells.

And a CMOS battery doesn't count... I'm curious about this myself.

 

[Hillhater]

Mostly internet sources, and i did read a quote ( cant find it now !) from Musk that mentioned Tesla had sourced cells from multiple sources.
I believe the Mod "S" only uses Panasonic cells (to date ?) but the Roadster was not so dedicated.
Remember , Tesla also supply packs to other car builders.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/30/us-tesla-battery-panasonic-idUSBRE99T0RT20131030

..Both Samsung (005930.KS) and LG Chem Ltd (051910.KS) have manufactured lithium ion cells for Tesla's Roadster sports car. The carmaker manufactured 2,500 Roadster vehicles.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-korea-autos-tesla-idUSBRE99306020131004

 

[mistercrash]

I've seen talks on the net about the new BL1840 Makita 4Ah pack not working out very well. Problems concerning power and compatibility with all Makita cordless tools. I also seen talks about a new Makita tool pack BL1850 5Ah coming to this side of the pond before the problematic 4Ah does.

http://toolguyd.com/makita-18v-lxt-5-0ah-battery/

Any truth to this Doc?

 

[Doctorbass]

I've seen talks on the net about the new BL1840 Makita 4Ah pack not working out very well. Problems concerning power and compatibility with all Makita cordless tools. I also seen talks about a new Makita tool pack BL1850 5Ah coming to this side of the pond before the problematic 4Ah does.

http://toolguyd.com/makita-18v-lxt-5-0ah-battery/

Any truth to this Doc?

Oh I did not know about the 5Ah... that's a good new! I will ask to my uncle at Makita about that.

Doc

 

[mistercrash]

If it's true, and the 5Ah is released this Summer in the US and a A and Canada eh! This means that there should be some defective packs coming in late Fall, early Winter. You sell packs with 100 cycles or less, so it doesn't take long for a construction worker to go through 100 cycles before the pack fails and ends up in your uncle's hands.

That's if Makita keeps on making crummy batteries, if they start making good batteries that lasts as long as the Dewalt ones, we're in for a long wait to get extremely used cells :lol:

Can't wait to get some nice Sony US18650VTC5 cells for $1 each. I'm guessing that is what they would put in the 5Ah packs.

 

[Doctorbass]

BL1850 Makita pack are coming in the next weeks guys! These packs will probably contain 10 of the VTC5 cells of 2.5Ah.

...Not as used or defective packs yet as well but this still guaranty I will probably get my hand on some in few months I hope!

I actually have 3 of the BL1840 packs with the VTC4 2Ah cells that I keep until I get more. These packs are rated 72Wh and the BL1850 of 5Ah will be rated 90Wh

The VTC5 cells with 2.5Ah are rated 30A discharge wich is double as the existing V cells

The VT5 cells are sold at some place starting to about 13$ per cells wich is still 11 times more expensive than the BL1830 I'm offering but I expect that over the next months /years these will become available in large qty and also as defective and used packs.

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

I have noticed that there is some of the VTC5 cells available here at about 10$ per cells:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62971

Doc

 

[mistercrash]

Will my prediction be right? I hope it will. How much are you going to sell these used and defective Makita BL1850 Doc? I'm hoping the same as the BL1830.

 

[molybdenum]

This is amazing news and I hope the Makita packs with 2.5Ah VTC5 cells come available within a year or less. I built a 17s10p pack from the 1.5Ah 18650V cells and it works amazing. I expect to get 500 cycles use (another year+) but I'll be building another Sony pack for sure. Imagine cramming over 1700wh into my smallish triangle I'd be tempted to up the voltage; break out the cromotor!.

As for the solder fumes, I borrowed this trick from the chem lab: I installed a bathroom vent fan connected to some flexible aluminium dryer vent hose and hung it right over my soldering platform to suck up the fumes and vent them from the workshop as they appear