New Panasonic Cell ncr18650bd 3200mah

[riba2233]

Buy BE or LG mh1 instead, they have the same capacity but higher current capability. Or PF or samsung 29e if you can deal with a little larger pack, but want to save more money.

 

[okashira]

My BD's and BE's are on the way from fast tech.
I also have a programmable DC load on the way too.
Wait until I can test them side by side...

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Buy BE or LG mh1 instead, they have the same capacity but higher current capability. Or PF or samsung 29e if you can deal with a little larger pack, but want to save more money.

Why? What is the problem with BD's for my application? They will see a max of 1.6C and spend most of the time below 1C.
The only LG cell I can find at the same capacity is this.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/14...g-icr18650e1-3-7v-3200mah-rechargeable-li-ion
But balance charging each cell to 4.35V per cell is not an option for me with my BC168 balance charger.

I tried to follow the discussion on whether BE or BD is the higher current carrying cell, but just got more confused. What I really don't get is if the BE can supposedly carry more current, why does every seller on the net spec the BD as the high current cell? They can't ALL be wrong can they?

Regardless, for my application I think the BD is still a good cell as I won't be drawing much current. I even considered the NCR18650A 3400mah for it's extra capacity, but I think it would be pushing it a bit at 1.6C.

Cheers

 

[riba2233]

Why? What is the problem with BD's for my application?

You said that they are expensive, and I'm offering you alternative that is more powerful and cheaper. What's problem with that?

They will see a max of 1.6C and spend most of the time below 1C.
Regardless, for my application I think the BD is still a good cell as I won't be drawing much current.

And BE and LG MH1 are better on 1.6C, and cheaper at the same time. That's about 5A, so look at this chart:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=545&akku2=537&akku3=531&akku4=&akku5=&akku6=&a=5

The only LG cell I can find at the same capacity is this.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/14...g-icr18650e1-3-7v-3200mah-rechargeable-li-ion
But balance charging each cell to 4.35V per cell is not an option for me with my BC168 balance charger.

That's your problem! Just google LG MH1. It's 4.2V 3200mah 10A cell.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=537
http://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/lg-inr18650mh1-3200mah-3c-battery.html

I tried to follow the discussion on whether BE or BD is the higher current carrying cell, but just got more confused. What I really don't get is if the BE can supposedly carry more current, why does every seller on the net spec the BD as the high current cell? They can't ALL be wrong can they?

You've tried, but obviously had failed. Sellers didn't test the cells. Dampfakkus and lygte did, and they are reputable cell testers. So who do you believe? And yes, they can be all wrong, because they don't care and they just copy from each other.

http://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/panasonic-ncr18650be-3-7v-2900mah.html

This seller from EU says that it's high drain cell. Tesla uses similar cell. So, what do you think?

I even considered the NCR18650A 3400mah for it's extra capacity, but I think it would be pushing it a bit at 1.6C.

LOL, first, A is 3100 mah, and it's weak, expensive and outdated cell.

Cheers

Cheers to you too, and please learn how to read more carefully, or you could loose a lot of money.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks Riba...I think. Not all of us have the time to carefully dissect every word out there...hence my uncertainty. There's no need to patronise.

So if what you are saying (and showing) is correct, the LG MH1 is the better cell for my application then. Thanks!

2 questions:
1) How new is it? It doesn't seem to be available everywhere yet, and there is not much info out there apart from what you posted.

2) Why is it cheaper than the equivalent (or inferior) Panasonic's, Samsungs, etc? i.e. what's the catch?

My only other problem is then finding it from a seller that will spot weld the series 15s for me. Maybe by next year when I'm looking to buy places like SuPower and EVVA who do spot weld will have these in stock. Buying from EU is not an option for me in Australia as the shipping would be a killer.

Cheers

 

[okashira]

Thanks Riba...I think. Not all of us have the time to carefully dissect every word out there...hence my uncertainty. There's no need to patronise.

So if what you are saying (and showing) is correct, the LG MH1 is the better cell for my application then. Thanks!

2 questions:
1) How new is it? It doesn't seem to be available everywhere yet, and there is not much info out there apart from what you posted.

2) Why is it cheaper than the equivalent (or inferior) Panasonic's, Samsungs, etc? i.e. what's the catch?

My only other problem is then finding it from a seller that will spot weld the series 15s for me. Maybe by next year when I'm looking to buy places like SuPower and EVVA who do spot weld will have these in stock. Buying from EU is not an option for me in Australia as the shipping would be a killer.

Cheers

Read this post:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56549&start=75#p974236

Riba is a nice guy once you get to know him... :lol:

Food for thought: Panasonic doesn't sell 18650 batteries. (Not unless you are Tesla Motors.)
Go ahead, call Panasonic and ask them. They only sell battery packs. My point is, they don't put in much effort to maintain their cell specs.

I have BD's and BE's coming to do a direct comparison.
(hopefully I will be able to cycle test them too.)

 

[riba2233]

LG is cheaper because it's LG.. :lol: I mean it's always hard to analyse the cost of cells, because I've seen a lots of variety even for the same cell.

Panasonic is my preferred brand, and panasonic BE is my preferred cell, but only if you can get it cheap, there is no point in wasting money. In the end, you will probably buy something that is good but also cheap enough. That's how I ended with samsung 29E.

I look forward to your test okashira! I also want to confirm that results of my tests match ones on dampfakkus, me and my friend managed to pull 20A from BE and it dropped to the same level as on dampfakkus and lygte test.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks for the feedback guy's.

Sounds like the LG or the BE are the best options then.
EVVA has the BE, but a minimum order of 1000 pieces.
http://evva.en.alibaba.com/product/...y_18650_3200mAh_for_Panasonic_NCR18650BE.html

Cheers

 

[riba2233]

Keeppower also has them:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/rechargeable-lithium-ion-18650-3200mah-for_1837796404.html

And the moq is 100.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Keeppower also has them:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/rechargeable-lithium-ion-18650-3200mah-for_1837796404.html

And the moq is 100.

Thanks. Do you or anyone know if Keeppower spot weld also?

Cheers

 

[riba2233]

I think that they do, I'm 99% sure, but you can always ask them to confirm.

 

[silviasol]

Keeppower also has them:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/rechargeable-lithium-ion-18650-3200mah-for_1837796404.html

And the moq is 100.

How much are they charging?

 

[riba2233]

I really don't know. Try asking them..

 

[okashira]

I asked them.
They quoted me 4.5 per cell for 175 cells.
Shipping was $112.
They did not specify "rank" or "grade" of the cells.

I don't know why people are so damn coy and secretive about what they paid for their cells.

 

[riba2233]

Not bad! I think that the price could go lower, but maybe it does for the car quantities.

 

[Cephalotus]

And BE and LG MH1 are better on 1.6C, and cheaper at the same time. That's about 5A, so look at this chart:

LG MH1 seems to be a NCM chemistry which means more safety, but less calendar life compared to NCA.

 

[riba2233]

We can't be sure on that one, since I haven't found any reliable data that proves whether its ncm or nca. NCA can be safe enough, just like any other chemistry, that depends on many factors not just on chemistry type.

 

[okashira]

My 10 PF's I ordered from NKON arrived alraedy. Much faster then fasttech. (still no sign)
Perhaps I shoulda ordered the BE's/BD's from them ...

All of the PF's from NKON say D on the side, I assume this means rank D. What does it mean?

 

[riba2233]

Nkon doesn't have bd's otherwise I would allready have them I'm not sure about those letters really.

 

[riba2233]

New experience with panasonic ncr18650BE - my brother left them connected to RC car controller (esc), and they drained down to 0.5 V per cell. I charged them with 200 mA, and they got up without problem, and two cells had the identical voltage through the whole charging process. I tested charge and discharge (full capacity), it all went fine, and now the cells are holding their voltage, no self-discharge at all!

 

[cwah]

New experience with panasonic ncr18650BE - my brother left them connected to RC car controller (esc), and they drained down to 0.5 V per cell. I charged them with 200 mA, and they got up without problem, and two cells had the identical voltage through the whole charging process. I tested charge and discharge (full capacity), it all went fine, and now the cells are holding their voltage, no self-discharge at all!

Isn't the be the cheaper version of the ncr18650b? It is 3200mah and advertised discharge is about 1C.

 

[riba2233]

OMFG

Please, please read the last 5 pages of this thread.

BE are cells used in tesla, and they are not the "cheap version" od B! They are 3C cells, 10A max continuous discharge., pulse 15A.

 

[cwah]

The BE cell are 1C discharge, please see:
http://www.keeppower.com.cn/products_detail.php?id=476

Ncr18650bd are the high discharge high capacity ones, that can bear 3C. But they are way more expensive

 

[riba2233]

I really can't do this any more, please read the whole thread or I will have to report you for trolling.

 

[cwah]

I'm tired of repeating myself to people who wont read and want to throw their money.

So look at this comparison at 10A: (keeppower 3200 respresents the panasonic BE model)

And this one at 5A: (efest is panasonic BE in this case)

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=545&akku2=531&akku3=&akku4=&akku5=&akku6=&a=5


Now, keeppower sells two versions of panasonic BE, one that is unprotected and declared as 20A, and one that is protected and isn't declared as 20A. But that's not because they are not the same cell, but because the protection can't stand 20A!!

Also look at the top of the "20A" cell (both efest and keeppower), it look like BE, not like BD!! :

And BD top:

Aaanndd.... Top on Tesla cells:

What? It looks like BE? OMG! :lol:

Also, at the first page of this topic shows some test of BD cell, and it says:

"at 2c full discharge the temperature rises up to 57 degree celsius".

I ran a 5A test of BE and it barely got warm.

So, if after reading all of this, you still think that BD is more powerful cell, just because some SELLER (!) states that, one who didn't do ANY tests, and you chose to ignore the TESTS form REPUTABLE battery testers, then go ahead, waste your money. Congratulations.

Ok I saw your test. Have you found good source of BE seller for decent price? Power trading is apparently selling authentic at 3.8usd/cell. Which is a really good price but I'm not sure if it's authentic.

Otherwise, your source http://eu.nkon.nl/panasonic-ncr18650pf-3-7v-2900mah.html at 3.15euro/cell with super low shipping cost (as I'm in the UK) would maybe be safest?