Newb planning a touring build

[chilehed]

Got it all mocked up for testing and the motor is misbehaving. When using the throttle motor torque is very intermittent, cutting on and off very harshly if it does anything at all. When it's on the stand the wheel will sometimes spin, but most of the time I just hear the internals spin while the tire moves backwards a couple of degrees when it starts. When I did the autotune in the Phaserunner Suite the wheel did spin forward.

Grin had told me they'd set it up for my Fischer AG BB, but when pedaling the analyst was indicating zero output. When I looked at the PAS setup tab in Phaserunner Suite it was defaulted. I used the presets to select it but I'm getting very, very little assist (if any) even if I set the multiplier to 20x.

Any suggestions?

 

[amberwolf]

First, did you save all the orignal settings in PR and CA, to restore them later after experimenting if necessary? (if not, you should do this now).

Next, have you tried connecting throttle directly to PR without the CA connected? This will eliminate all the CA settings, so that if it still has the same problem you can then tune the PR until it works correctly, and *then* put the CA back in the loop to verify operation.

If the PR doesn't have the PAS sensor directly connected to it, you don't want to tell it it has one; it should be set so that it does not have one.

If the CA has the PAS sensor connected to it, then *it* will read the sensor and provide a throttle signal to the PR when it is used.

If you want to use the PAS sensor on the PR, you have to direclty connect it to the PR, and not to the CA, and then configure the PR to use it as you wish.


For a torque-controlling system like the PR, it is going to operate normally only when loaded. Unloaded, a tiny amoutn of throttle may give full wheel speed, and if there are any speed or other limits in the system, it may then cease motor output, rapidly drop in speed and then reapply what looks like full power (but isn't), and keep doing this.

To do a real test of an FOC controller or any ocnytroller modulating torque (current) instead of speed (voltage) you have to test it while riding, or with a load applied (like a dyno).


For a geared hubmotor with a freewheeling clutch like the Ezee, it will make the normal motor noise and loosely spin the wheel (from friction in the clutch) backwards if it is being driven in reverse.

If sometimes the motor spins forwards and sometimes backwards, then my first guess is the ERPM**** of the motor is too high for the PR to keep up with the sensor outputs. Or if the hall sensors are not being read correctly for any other reason, so it is falling back to sensorless, and is not always detecing the correct direction of hte motor when commanded to spin.

****some geared hubmotors ahve a high pole count, so that times the reduction means that the ocntroller has to do a lot more work in a lot less time, and a lot of controllers just can't keep up with that. If it's in a small wheel at high speed, it can make a system unusable....or offground for a test with a torque-based controller that spins up fast welll past intended max speed with just a little throttle input.

 

[chilehed]

First, did you save all the orignal settings in PR and CA, to restore them later after experimenting if necessary?...

Yeah, I did, thanks. Turns out that
1. I'd missed that the torque sensor needed to be plugged into the CA rather than the controller, and
2. The CA config wasn't set up quite right (I'd been told that they'd take care of that prior to shipment).
Grin sent me an updated config (which I've write-protected) and it's working well now, looks like all I have left to do is add the brake cutoff, fabricate a guard plate for the torque sensor wire at the BB shell, wrap everything up pretty, and tweak the power delivery to my liking (did a little of that already).

But I'll probably go for a nice 20 mile ride this afternoon first. I need to get out.

 

[amberwolf]

The tweaking is usually an ongoing process, and whenever you encounter new riding conditions you might find some tweaking needed to cover those.

I used to tweak and tweak and tweak things to perfection, but when I setup the PRs on the SB cruiser and got them working, I have left it all as it was then. I'm sure I could improve it's perfromance and response, but I just have this feeling I should leave welle nough alone until I get my new trike built so I have backup transportation when I break something. :lol:

 

[chilehed]

This is how it looks today, I’m fairly pleased with how it’s come out. Photos at the bottom.

EDIT:

I’m trying to figure out how to set up the CA3_MFSwitch to support multiple assist levels. I’d like to vary torque scale factor, not just add on some percentage of available power. I like the results I get with
AuxA Control Type = NoneNumber of Presets = 3PAS Assist Mode = TorqueAssist Scale Factor = 0.75, 1.35, 2.00 W/HW (in presets 1, 2, and 3)and using the hold left/tap right buttons on the CA I can cycle through the presets.

But when I set
AuxA Control Type = 3-Pos switchAuxA Input Function = PresetsSwitch Med/Low Levels = 66/33it stays in preset 3 unless I hold the switch either up or down (in either case it goes to preset 1). Hold left/tap right on the CA is disabled with this config (I understand that, the CA3-MFSwitch is mech’d as a 3-position momentary with the released position having a different resistance than the up and down positions.).

I also tried
Number of Presets = 1PAS Assist Mode = TorqueAssist Scale Factor = 4.00AuxA Control Type = 3-Pos switchAuxA Input Function = PAS LevelNumber of Levels = 5I get a AuxA Adjust PAS level = 4.00 unless I again hold the switch either up or down (in either case I get 1.28).

Turns out I had missed that the CA3_MFSwitch is a digital device, and in order to use it you have to use the Digital Aux Settings field.

I have a set of Carradice SuperC panniers and Carradura bag for the back. Still need to fabricate an axle mount for the front rack.


Aluminum shield for the BB torque sensor wires.


I epoxied a brass cotter pin onto the front brake lever to connect the cutoff switch, it was the best way I could think of to maximize travel without interfering with operation or having a tight bend in the cable.


The Cockpit. I have a cell phone mount that I want to try to fit in there somewhere.

 

[ZeroEm]

This is how it looks today, I’m fairly pleased with how it’s come out. Photos at the bottom.

I’m trying to figure out how to set up the CA3-MFSwitch to support multiple assist levels. I’d like to vary torque scale factor, not just add on some percentage of available power. I like the results I get with

AuxA Control Type = None​

Number of Presets = 3​

PAS Assist Mode = Torque​

Assist Scale Factor = 0.75, 1.35, 2.00 W/HW (in presets 1, 2, and 3)​

and using the hold left/tap right buttons on the CA I can cycle through the presets.

But when I set

AuxA Control Type = 3-Pos switch​

AuxA Input Function = Presets​

Switch Med/Low Levels = 66/33​

it stays in preset 3 unless I hold the switch either up or down (in either case it goes to preset 1). Hold left/tap right on the CA is disabled with this config (I understand that, the CA3-MFSwitch is mech’d as a 3-position momentary with the released position having a different resistance than the up and down positions.).

I also tried

Number of Presets = 1​

PAS Assist Mode = Torque​

Assist Scale Factor = 4.00​

AuxA Control Type = 3-Pos switch​

AuxA Input Function = PAS Level​

Number of Levels = 5​

I get a AuxA Adjust PAS level = 4.00 unless I again hold the switch either up or down (in either case I get 1.28).

What am I missing? 3 presets is okay, but 20 levels would be better. I just want to be able to select them using the switch rather than the CA buttons.

I have a set of Carradice SuperC panniers and Carradura bag for the back. Still need to fabricate an axle mount for the front rack.
View attachment 371519

Aluminum shield for the BB torque sensor wires.
View attachment 371520

I epoxied a brass cotter pin onto the front brake lever to connect the cutoff switch, it was the best way I could think of to maximize travel without interfering with operation or having a tight bend in the cable.
View attachment 371521

The Cockpit. View attachment 371522

I like peddle assist as older and bad back so need help pushing on the peddles. Have not tried the torque sensor as yet (some day). Do like lots of adjustments for levels of assist. Some times you want to save battery for long rides and when you are fresh only need light assist. I bought grin's analog switch can piggy back on their digital switch connected to the CA3. Have the analog switch limit the total power of the motor and the digital switch can be as many pas levels as you want. Think mine is set up for 10 levels. Liked 75w a lot but used more like 150w when tired. Not suggesting this but set it to increment the power vs cadence so it's never static.

 

[99t4]

This is how it looks today, I’m fairly pleased with how it’s come out. Photos at the bottom.

Nice work! Lots of attention to detail.